football accounts

[Guest]

documentary tonight on the state of football accounts with alan sugar

stated the obvious that wages are far too high and recommended a few changes including banning owners dumping purchase borrowing onto the club.

made me think that at least gse didnt dump the £35m purchase debt onto us, and have invested £21m

i think our wages are still something like 66% of income - no doubt ramblur can give us the figure - but it is prob still too high as glick has stated.

the financial stringency that gse have exercised has rebounded in that they have been accused of meanness, but actually football as a whole needs to put its finances in order.

all in all....they havent been bad for us have they?

[Duracell]

I hope in the long-run, we praise them. If they get it right other clubs may even marvle "the Derby model".

The thing is with GSE, if that you've got to ask yourself - what harm have they actually done anyway, on pitch?

We're still a Championship club, and we've never really looked like going down at all.

For other clubs like us, I think they should have a look at what we're doing. Get a cheap manager who's used to running things on a shoe-string, who can just about keep the ship sailing whilst the finances are sorted out.

We've sold all of our best players, slashed the budget, and chopped the deadwood. With a squad that was the worst in Premier League history, the worst starting point you can have.

[SillyBilly]

Interms of football its been *****. I go to watch the football, there must be a fair few fans, like me, who don't give a rats arse about the balance sheet.

[RotherhamRam]

Interms of football its been *****. I go to watch the football, there must be a fair few fans, like me, who don't give a rats arse about the balance sheet.

For once I agree with you however the balance sheet controls the level of players we can have to get the football we want. Catch 22

[Duracell]

Interms of football its been *****. I go to watch the football, there must be a fair few fans, like me, who don't give a rats arse about the balance sheet.

I can understand the first part, but not giving a rats arse?

[RamNut]

I hope in the long-run, we praise them. If they get it right other clubs may even marvle "the Derby model".

We're still a Championship club, and we've never really looked like going down at all.

We've sold all of our best players, slashed the budget, and chopped the deadwood. With a squad that was the worst in Premier League history, the worst starting point you can have.

off the pitch we seem to have made progress...

but on it we could be heading for the rocks.

[SillyBilly]

I can understand the first part, but not giving a rats arse?

Duno why, I just don't mate. I've followed Derby for years and I've never (ever) been so bored with it. All everybody talks about is wages, turnover, revenue streams, bores me to tears. I see the importance of it but its not of any interest to me. Any. Quite frankly if Derby stay up and do it for 90% of the cost they did it the year above, well sorry, it doesn't tickle my balls.

[Duracell]

off the pitch we seem to have made progress...

but on it we could be heading for the rocks.

This appears to be the final season of cut-backs, and we're the 6th worst team in the division. I think we're going to be absolutely fine.

[SillyBilly]

This appears to be the final season of cut-backs, and we're the 6th worst team in the division. I think we're going to be absolutely fine.

Sheff United have just been relegated, no idea if they have been cutting back? Least not to a great extent? And they started in a much better position to us relative to this season. Anything can happen. This is the Championship, I wouldn't be shocked if we won it or were relegated in 24th.

[Duracell]

Duno why, I just don't mate. I've followed Derby for years and I've never (ever) been so bored with it. All everybody talks about is wages, turnover, revenue streams, bores me to tears. I see the importance of it but its not of any interest to me. Any. Quite frankly if Derby stay up and do for 90% of the cost they did it the year above, well sorry, it doesn't tickle my balls.

Not saying you should be interested in the ins and outs of a spread sheet, just I can't enjoy the good times unless I'm comfortable in the knowledge we won't pay for it dearly in a few years time. If we get things right now, we could get things sussed for years to come. If.

But for me it's part of supporting a football club. Going through everything, even getting the house in order and having to watch cr4p football for a few years. Going through the pain is the entertainment and it will make the goodtimes even sweeter.

[Duracell]

Sheff United have just been relegated, no idea if they have been cutting back? Least not to a great extent? And they started in a much better position to us relative to this season. Anything can happen. This is the Championship, I wouldn't be shocked if we won it or were relegated in 24th.

This league is all about momentum. Sheffield United haven't had any significant imput for a while, that's one of the things that sent them down IMO.

From our current base an injection of 8 players that Nige really actually wants can only mean we go one way, and that's up.

I hope :frown:

[RamNut]

This appears to be the final season of cut-backs, and we're the 6th worst team in the division. I think we're going to be absolutely fine.

it seems to me that there is still work to be done to cut costs if we are dependent upon a £7m injection each year.

and whilst i too glaze over when the discussion focusses excludively on balance sheets, of course we are interested because we all want the club to have money to spend, and some of us have seen the club get into a financial mire several times in living memory.

my point really was that financial stringency has been necessary medicine.

[SillyBilly]

Not saying you should be interested in the ins and outs of a spread sheet, just I can't enjoy the good times unless I'm comfortable in the knowledge we won't pay for it dearly in a few years time. If we get things right now, we could get things sussed for years to come. If.

But for me it's part of supporting a football club. Going through everything, even getting the house in order and having to watch cr4p football for a few years. Going through the pain is the entertainment and it will make the goodtimes even sweeter.

You're probably not cynical though, whereas I am. Think its a pisstake that we're taking these measures when up the A52 you see a club sticking two fingers up at the accountant. Do I think Forest will go bust? No. Can clubs compete with these ridiculously unsustainable models followed by a number of clubs? Not too sure. I'd love it if we were years ahead of the game, getting braced for when its all going to kick off. All I've seen is clubs take gambles, sometimes pay off, sometimes not and then get bailed out with a slap on the wrist if it goes tits up.

[Duracell]

You're probably not cynical though, whereas I am.

Of course I'm not, I'm not old enough to have seen what the real world's like yet

[RamNut]

You're probably not cynical though, whereas I am. Think its a pisstake that we're taking these measures when up the A52 you see a club sticking two fingers up at the accountant. Do I think Forest will go bust? No. Can clubs compete with these ridiculously unsustainable models followed by a number of clubs? Not too sure.

Clubs should not be allowed to have debts which are 4 or 5 x turnover.

On the programme it was reported that even Wigan are £70m in debt. Barmy.

[Bris Vegas]

Clubs should not be allowed to have debts which are 4 or 5 x turnover.

On the programme it was reported that even Wigan are £70m in debt. Barmy.

I made the point about Bolton a few months ago.

They had bought Elmander for over $10mill and are paying him $50k a week, along with another load of players on $30-$35k a week.

Now as we know, Bolton don't play in Europe, they rarely have cup runs and average around 25,000 a year in gates. They have debts of around $80mill or so I was told.

What I don't understand is how the hell is this sustainable. Surely one day someone will turn up and want their money back. Or heaven forbid should they go down, what then?

With the way The PL is going, it's a top 7 of Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Citeh, Spurs, Liverpool and Everton. For the rest it's all about staying up and trying to win a cup. Unless you regularly win the cup you're only ever going to have the odd season in Europe. S'Land, Villa and Newcastle get reletively large gates so could push on, but for the rest, how exactly is their business plan sustainable. Wrack up millions of debt then what?

[RamNut]

how exactly is their business plan sustainable. Wrack up millions of debt then what?

it isnt sustainable. its just that so far none of the banks - with the possible exception of RBS - have had the balls to call in the debts. its yet more toxic debt.

Congrats to Man Utd etc but really these cubs should have all their trophies taken off them until they get their finances in some sort of order...

according to an article i saw.....

Manchester United Net debt: £716.6m

Chelsea Net debt: £511.6m

Arsenal Net debt: £297.0m

Liverpool Net debt: £261.7m

Manchester City Net debt: £194.4m

Fulham Net debt: £164.0m

West Ham net debt: £114.9m

The total debts of PL clubs were reported as £3.3 billion.

[uttoxram75]

They can't even be arsed to pay their tax either......

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2011/03/15/revealed-english-football%e2%80%99s-tax-debt-was-22m-%e2%80%98at-low-ebb%e2%80%99-in-2010-150301/

Clubs from the Premier League owe millions of pounds in tax payments, including VAT, despite being rich enough to pay player’s salaries that run into six figures per week in some cases, according to findings from a Freedom of Information inquiry (FOI) published for the first time here today.

The precise tally changes from month to month but an FOI inquiry seeking figures for the end of the last tax year (April 2010) has revealed that more than £22m in ‘simple‘ taxes (PAYE, National Insurance and VAT) was overdue to Her Majesty’s Revenue & Customs (HMRC) by the 92 clubs in the Premier League and Football League.

[RamNut]

um ...why not deduct 1pt for every £50m of debt in the PL ....and maybe 1pt per £20m of debt in the Championship

then the table would read

Man u 62pts

Arsenal 62pts

Chelsea 60pts

Man City 58 pts

Spurs 55 pts

Liverpool 50 pts

Everton 50 pts

etc

now thats more like a level playing field and a much more exciting league.

The Premier League could do something about it if they chose to.

[Day]

um ...why not deduct 1pt for every £50m of debt in the PL ....and maybe 1pt per £20m of debt in the Championship

then the table would read

Man u 62pts

Arsenal 62pts

Chelsea 60pts

Man City 58 pts

Spurs 55 pts

Liverpool 50 pts

Everton 50 pts

etc

now thats more like a level playing field and a much more exciting league.

The Premier League could do something about it if they chose to.

Wage cap with no loopholes for excessive signing on fees, bonuses and any other payments would sort em out. Man City and Chelsea are going to destroy English football unless they are stopped.