Does 4-2-3-1 work when one of the 3 is out?

[NorfolkRam]

The thing that frustrates me most about Green is that in his first season he did bag some goals so I guess I expect him too score more, I think it's harsh to compare him to pearson in the box, I would be offended at being compared to Pearson in the box, but I think he needs to work on it, Ican't comment too much as I haven't seen him get into many clear cut chances in the games i've seen, I would want to count on between 6-10 goals from him though but I don't see him making it that far.

Definately an asset though as his assist count is high, if he keeps that up then I guess we can't complain too much.

[NorfolkRam]

I just want to point out though that turn in the box that lead to the curling shot, brilliant piece of play by Green, credit where its due.

[MrOrdinary]

maybe a harsh comparison, but he should definatly convert more of his chances

[Duracell]

Going back to the discussion of the formation, 4-2-3-1 does have a disadvantage, regardless of who's playing.

When we come against 4-4-2 formations against sides with a decent midfield, they have complete supremacy in the middle of the field, as Norwich demonstrated. There midfield four sat in the whole between Bailey/Savage and Cywka/Green/Commons and ran the show in that department, and managed to stop any rythm going between our holding and pressing midfielders.

That's the only issue with 4-2-3-1; you compromise midfield supremacy in return for chance creation. We still created more than enough chances to get enough from the game, but our defence was under pressure all the time for their boisterous front 2 who themselves enjoyed plenty of service.

[NorfolkRam]

I think you have a good point bunny, may even be advisable for us to look to moving the formation to 4-5-1 when under pressure. We definately need to be able to battle more in midfield which we can't seem to do against the better sides.

I know what ya mean BARRam, just got a thing against Pearson at the minute, no real reason, just thinks he's ****. lol

[MrOrdinary]

no need t think it he is *****

ive given up trying to defend him, he offers nothing to the team

i think we have been trying to revert t 451, but defensivly cywka and commons arent briliant, they try hard but not convincing

i think its still somewhat of a learning curve for them

[NorfolkRam]

wouldnt be much harm in pushing them out wide if they aren't going to be much use defensively

------savage green bailey---------

cywka-------------------commons

-------------moore---------------

just ask a bit more of green with him having to get back and forward alot but he has the energy to do it and is good at filling in to help at the back.

[Duracell]

wouldnt be much harm in pushing them out wide if they aren't going to be much use defensively

------savage green bailey---------

cywka-------------------commons

-------------moore---------------

just ask a bit more of green with him having to get back and forward alot but he has the energy to do it and is good at filling in to help at the back.

That might be asking too much; you might get more out of him by getting him to do less. Distribution out of defence is always an issue without Bailey and before him it was Green, but there are occasions, such as Saturday as I earlier explained, that these kind of players struggle anyway.

Bailey and Sav had to the feed the ball to 3 players the wrong side of 4 very tall midfielders. Physics dictates that that's a very hard job to do! Bailey lacks the experience and Savage the ability to work around it and the result of which was that we sent the ball over the top to Moore. Now, Moore is useless in the air, you might aswell play Gareth Roberts in that position if you're doing that. Moore is class when you play the ball into his feet, so you need a system which can do that. Last season's 4-4-1-1 formation did that for Hulse. So basically:

Cywka---Bailey---Savage---Commons

-------------Green--------------

-------------Moore--------------

That solves your issue of midfield weakness against the better teams. Obviously, stick to the 4-2-3-1 against your Palaces and your Middlesbroughs. But wasn't it funny how last season, with that formation, teams like Newcastle, Forest and West Brom struggled to play against us, but teams like Donny and Scunny found us out?

Clough's weakness, and his only weakness, is his tactical inflexibility - although that may not necessarily be a weakness, as his late father wasn't one to chop-and-change, was he....

[uttoxram75]

Going back to the discussion of the formation, 4-2-3-1 does have a disadvantage, regardless of who's playing.

When we come against 4-4-2 formations against sides with a decent midfield, they have complete supremacy in the middle of the field, as Norwich demonstrated. There midfield four sat in the whole between Bailey/Savage and Cywka/Green/Commons and ran the show in that department, and managed to stop any rythm going between our holding and pressing midfielders.

That's the only issue with 4-2-3-1; you compromise midfield supremacy in return for chance creation. We still created more than enough chances to get enough from the game, but our defence was under pressure all the time for their boisterous front 2 who themselves enjoyed plenty of service.

Good points o furry one. Just one little note...if a couple of our missed chances had gone in (which they surely would have done another day), then the dynamics change completely and Norwich are worried about getting caught again as they push on.

Our passing game would be more relaxed and they get a bit frantic.

Its a very fine line and I maintain that we could just as easily have won the game as lost it.

[Gary Teale]

I think we could talk systems all day but I would like Clough sometimes to be a bit more flexible, for instance on sat when we were really pushing for a goal couldnt we actually have 2 men up front for more than 10mins. I agree with the point that if the chances went in Clough would have been right but all the top managers seem to throw caution to the wind at times and I just felt it was to easy for the Norwich centre halfs on sat and maybe it would have been worth seeing Porter and Kuqi on there.