Is Joe Ledley the most important player in the squad ?

[Seaside Sam]

33 minutes ago, BathRam72 said:

 

I realise the post was about Ledley and i agree he is class.

But my point was that stats can be looked at in what ever way you want to get to the end goal. In the same stat league Thorne looks outstanding. So not an anomaly as such as his stats are taken from the same team over a period of games. However surely he had the winning team around him through those games and nothing to do with his individual skills and commitment. 

 

surely it's the whole package,Ledley does the simple things ,wins or cuts out the ball and gives it to someone who can do something with it ,plus he can put a half decent ball in he's a decent player who in this day and ages obsession with box to box midfield players who run 15 miles every game he comes into the bracket of keeping things simple ,very refreshing 

[Wolfie20]

Ledley is far and away the best player we have in the squad for protecting the back four - allowing Huddlestone to go a bit further forward. On recent form, neither Thorne or Johnson gives me the same degree of confidence that Ledley does in that role.

[VulcanRam]

A very important player no doubt. The most important? No. I'd say Vydra is ahead of him on that front. Just think where we would be without his goals.

[Gypsy Ram]

12 hours ago, wixman1884 said:

Presumably they used him in a way that took advantage of his unique ability to charge the ball into defenders or kick it as hard as he can in some arbitrary direction. Anything that ends the passage of play as quickly as possible. 

He's the football equivalent of a running back. Alternatively, he would have made a great rugby league player.

[Dimmu]

I remember posting something about him earlier and I found this from Christmas Eve.

Kieftenbeld or his agent made a mistake and that was the key point of our season. Ledley makes players around him better, he is the platform for everything good in our play. Massive fan of his, not only beard and dancing skills.

Haven't changed my mind since.

[brady1993]

3 hours ago, VulcanRam said:

A very important player no doubt. The most important? No. I'd say Vydra is ahead of him on that front. Just think where we would be without his goals.

This is something I've been mulling over but I do wonder that if another player given similar opportunity would have done as well as Vydra. Before I go further I'll be up front in saying that clearly Vydra has had a fantastic season, has won us a considerably number of games and is clearly a talented player. However he has had a lot of things set up to favor him.

For example; Rowett gave him penalty duty to build his confidence up, he was continually played early in the season when he wasn't playing as well (a lot of his goals early in the season where from penalties) to build his form, he is the only player on the team who has minimal defensive responsibility, he doesn't have much responsibility to create, as a #10 he's free to pop where he feels he can be dangerous and the team is set up (To an extent) to try to find him in shooting positions. Would say someone like Lawrence or maybe Palmer have performed similarly in similar circumstances? 

[brady1993]

15 hours ago, 86 points said:

I'm probably being really horrible here but what about American football - they use blockers to support their receivers and running backs don't they? Bradley would be quite effective at running around getting in the way, I'd have thought. 

Both it would seem.

I do wonder, and perhaps someone on here could offer a sensible commentary on this, how was it he was so good for Norwich but has struggled so badly for us? Wasn't he their POTY the year they got promoted? I'm guessing he was used differently in their set-up?

 

 

The season he was POTY for Norwich he was played on the left side of a diamond  (may have been a flat four at times as well). That season Norwich's build play was mostly focused down the right hand side, I.e. actively not going through Johnson, with Johnson arriving at the back post for crosses or to latch onto loose balls for a shot. In defence because he wasn't the anchor in midfield he was free to rage around and be disruptive and it not be a major problem when he was out of position. 

Effectively the system and style of play Norwich deployed suited his strengths and mitigated his weaknesses. Whereas when he's played as one of the two defensive midfielders in our system, his two glaring weaknesses come to the fore i.e. poor positioning and poor ball retention (two qualities key for the role). 

[archied]

1 hour ago, brady1993 said:

This is something I've been mulling over but I do wonder that if another player given similar opportunity would have done as well as Vydra. Before I go further I'll be up front in saying that clearly Vydra has had a fantastic season, has won us a considerably number of games and is clearly a talented player. However he has had a lot of things set up to favor him.

For example; Rowett gave him penalty duty to build his confidence up, he was continually played early in the season when he wasn't playing as well (a lot of his goals early in the season where from penalties) to build his form, he is the only player on the team who has minimal defensive responsibility, he doesn't have much responsibility to create, as a #10 he's free to pop where he feels he can be dangerous and the team is set up (To an extent) to try to find him in shooting positions. Would say someone like Lawrence or maybe Palmer have performed similarly in similar circumstances? 

Did rowett give him the penalties to build his confidence or did he give them to him because he was confident vydra was the best person for the job?

[brady1993]

1 hour ago, archied said:

Did rowett give him the penalties to build his confidence or did he give them to him because he was confident vydra was the best person for the job?

Good question. I suspect it might have been a little bit of both. Vydra has certainly proved himself an accomplished penalty taker however Rowett has made a few comments about Vydra having fragile confidence and trying to build that up also Nugent was playing regularly in that period who has a great track record with penalties  (if I remember correctly). 

I feel like my post reads like I'm being critical of Vydra when that's not my intention, just more of a musing on the situation. 

[VulcanRam]

16 hours ago, brady1993 said:

This is something I've been mulling over but I do wonder that if another player given similar opportunity would have done as well as Vydra. Before I go further I'll be up front in saying that clearly Vydra has had a fantastic season, has won us a considerably number of games and is clearly a talented player. However he has had a lot of things set up to favor him.

For example; Rowett gave him penalty duty to build his confidence up, he was continually played early in the season when he wasn't playing as well (a lot of his goals early in the season where from penalties) to build his form, he is the only player on the team who has minimal defensive responsibility, he doesn't have much responsibility to create, as a #10 he's free to pop where he feels he can be dangerous and the team is set up (To an extent) to try to find him in shooting positions. Would say someone like Lawrence or maybe Palmer have performed similarly in similar circumstances? 

I don't know, you don't know, none of us know! Palmer perhaps. Having seen Lawrence all season then I'd say no as I don't this he has the intelligence of Vydra regards off-the-ball movement and he's not as deadly in front of goal. But until they are given the opportunity then we don't know how they will respond. 

And regards Vydra, it's not just his goals that I've been impressed with, it's his willingness to drop in and hunt for the ball, to tackle, to feed others and his overall team play.

We are a better team with Ledley in it, no doubt. As we are with Carson or Davies, or Tommy H. We'd miss all of those if they weren't in the team, they are all big players for us.

Maybe they're both equally as important, just in different ways.