Formations

[archied]

From what I can see so far it looks to me that rowett wants solid full backs who can defend first and foremost then is looking to be fluid rapid change 451 defending to 424 in attack , really feels like a new era is beginning for us 

[Alph]

He was onto this 45 minutes into his first game. Don't know why it's taken so long to revisit it and see what we can do with it. 

At least the threat of pace/positioning from the 3 keeps us from getting penned in. One pass from Huddlestone is usually enough to see them chill on the pressing.

It'll come under tougher tests. Teams will try to sit a man on Huddlestone. Then teams will try to sit a man on Vydra. Any team that plays a diamond won't even have to tinker to do both.i guess we'll see.

But had we played 433 with Huddlestone, Johnson and Butters I bet we'd have managed to drop points in the last 2. No fault of any one in particular. Not blaming Butters. But they crowded themselves. Invited pressure and got deeper. 

At least everyone seems comfortable pretty much. It's a start. 

 

[archied]

55 minutes ago, Alpha said:

He was onto this 45 minutes into his first game. Don't know why it's taken so long to revisit it and see what we can do with it. 

At least the threat of pace/positioning from the 3 keeps us from getting penned in. One pass from Huddlestone is usually enough to see them chill on the pressing.

It'll come under tougher tests. Teams will try to sit a man on Huddlestone. Then teams will try to sit a man on Vydra. Any team that plays a diamond won't even have to tinker to do both.i guess we'll see.

But had we played 433 with Huddlestone, Johnson and Butters I bet we'd have managed to drop points in the last 2. No fault of any one in particular. Not blaming Butters. But they crowded themselves. Invited pressure and got deeper. 

At least everyone seems comfortable pretty much. It's a start. 

 

Seems easier to get back in shape with Wieman and Russell dropping into midfield rather than having to cover fullbacks who constantly get beyond them ,, less ground to cover and we left exposed far less often and they can use their pace to hurt teams from a much higher starting point ,,, I could be wrong but it does seem that rowett is looking at setting us up along those lines and I think it's fairly uncomplicated to get the team playing as a unit either pressing high or dropping deep in this kind of formation

[RiddingsRam]

The problem with 4 3 3 is that it needs key players in key positions for it to work correctly , with 4 2 3 1 it's a lot more flexible and allows more fluidity within the squad. 

For the 4 3 3 to work you need wide forwards who are prepared to cut in from the flanks and feed off the centre forward , the centre forward needs to be able to play with his back to goal and hold the ball up . In central midfield you need a runner who will get beyond ten centre forward and someone who can make things happen to the wide players with a pass . You need a holding midfield player who can not only dictate the tempo of the play but who is also capable of sitting in the middle of a back two whilst the full backs bomb forward . And finally 2 centre halves who can play football. It's a lot of boxes that need ticking and for me the system is too rigid and too defensive at times.

4 2 3 1 is the way forward, I love to see 2 attacking central players and wingers playing like wingers. Whilst the 2 in central midfield have a little more freedom to play whilst still screening the back 4 . 

[DEL]

Rowett will use 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 depending on who we're playing against during the season so prepare for this anyway. 

[BV__]

Easy to adjust from 4 2 3 1 to 4 3 3 so getting time playing both makes sense. We seem to create an awful lot more though with 4 2 3 1... 4 3 3 at times we werent even getting shots on target for 70 mins in many games last year. Nice to see vydra getting a few games at last in a position where you can fairly judge him. 4 2 3 1 also has the added benefit that we dont need to play butterfield.

[jono]

20 hours ago, RiddingsRam said:

The problem with 4 3 3 is that it needs key players in key positions for it to work correctly , with 4 2 3 1 it's a lot more flexible and allows more fluidity within the squad. 

 

Exactly. 433 is great if you have "specialists" we don't have as many as we did but I honestly think we have all round footballers as least as good as The 13/14 side. And in the more flexible 4231 less prone to an "issue" if one cog goes missing.

[eddie]

433, 424, 442, 451, 4231, 352, 532.... there is no magic panacea formation. It's spoof or rock-paper-scissors.

[JAT]

23 hours ago, Alpha said:

Any team that plays a diamond won't even have to tinker to do both.i guess we'll see.

True but teams who play diamonds normally lack width, son you'd expect that we'd still cause them issues. You'd probably just need to me more direct and get it wide asap.

[archied]

1 hour ago, eddie said:

433, 424, 442, 451, 4231, 352, 532.... there is no magic panacea formation. It's spoof or rock-paper-scissors.

Your right to a degree but it's about players knowing their role in team and it's used to organise the players so it's a bit more than smoke and mirrors

[eddie]

4 minutes ago, archied said:

Your right to a degree but it's about players knowing their role in team and it's used to organise the players so it's a bit more than smoke and mirrors

Not saying it's smoke and mirrors - I'm saying that given teams of equal abilities, then on a given day under given conditions, there is always the possibility that A>B>C>D>E>A (so it's really rock-paper-scissors-lizard-spock). So it's a case of setting the team up to play a certain way against opponents  who themselves are setting up to play a certain way against you.