April Jones

[MrsRam]

We touched on this during match chat - Colin Bloomfield said at half time that that Mark Bridger had been charged with the murder of April Jones, along with abduction and perverting the course of justice.

I get the feeling that this bloke has not helped the police at all. The search for April has not only been a source of more pain for the family, it has put the public and the professional services in danger at times with the flooding river and the hard terrain to search for a little 5 year old, who could be anywhere.

I hope the police have a good case against him (if he is guilty).

[-JW-]

How does someone get charged with murder if the 'victim' is still missing??

Btw, not defending him, just a question.

[MrsRam]

Don't know, perhaps the dogs alerted something in his car, or house, and they have DNA, samples, or something.

[MrsRam]

There have been cases where there have been convictions of murder, without a body. Hard to prove. I don't think, in all honestly, that finding her body now, will shed any light on to how, and who.

[PrivateDerby]

Problem is she had apparently already been in his car on a 'crabbing trip' with his daughter, very strange.

The charges especially the murder and perverting the course of justice, means that they believe beyond reasonable doubt that she is dead, so they must have something.... I can't see the dirty c*nt helping officers one bit.

I think they'll find her, just a shame torture can't be used to find her sooner.

[ladyram]

Can't even start to think what her parents must be going through right now. Some sick people on the street's which makes it hard for kids to just be able to play in the street like they should be able to.

Poor little girl. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />

[MrsRam]

But we know for a fact that in nearly all cases a murder victim and the perpetrator are either related, or known to each other. Indeed, that's why our clear-up rate for murder is so high – consistently around 90%: because, frankly, you don't need to look too far for the likely culprit. Most murders are "self-solvers".

That reality is also true for child victims of murder – most children are at risk from their parents, carers, step-parents or someone known to the family of the child. On average since the early 1970s, only six children per year have been abducted and murdered by strangers, and while that is still six children too many, this sad statistic is put into perspective when we remember that two children a week are murdered within the home.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/07/april-jones-myths-risks-listen

I think this is very well written and well worth reading the whole thing. Two children a week murdered in the home, in this country, in 2012 - that's horrifying.

[Pearl Ram]

I think they'll find her, just a shame torture can't be used to find her sooner.

I was just saying to my Mrs this morning I don't know why they don't water board him to get the whereabouts of this little girl out of him, it's a sodding disgrace she could be left to the elements while he knows where she is.

[MrsRam]

I was just saying to my Mrs this morning I don't know why they don't water board him to get the whereabouts of this little girl out of him, it's a sodding disgrace she could be left to the elements while he knows where she is.

Oh he'll have had his human rights looked after, rests, food, only interviewed for a certain length of time, pussyfooting round him just incase it's brought up at the trial that something wasn't done correctly. He'll probably be no comment. How the police manage to stop themselves from launching themselves over the table and have him up against the wall, I'll never know.

Gene Hunt would have had it out of him by now. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/angry' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':angry:' />

[Brammie Steve]

Imagine the dilemma the police face in cases such as this.

A suspect is arrested on suspicion of abduction. The police have 36 hours to charge or release him. During this day and a half the person abducted is without food, water, medication or care of any kind. They die during this period and the suspect is charged with murder. A sharp defence barrister argues that there had been no intent to cause death and blame the police for the fact that the victim died. A little plea bargaining and accusations of contributory negligence and the suspect finally gets a vastly reduced sentence.

Possibly the police lose their temper in an interview or doubt is expressed about the validity of some of the evidence. An appeal overturns the sentence due to “new evidence not available at the time of the original investigation.

At all stages the legal system is stacked in favour of the accused. The police must have evidence which they are not releasing at present or they would have used a holding charge of abduction. I just hope that they have not been too precipitous in bringing in a charge of murder at this juncture.

I would be happier if the media withdrew from the scene for a while rather than risk jeopardising the outcome of this tragic situation. I quite often think that we the public seem to expect to be kept abreast of all the latest developments when we have no right to do so.

Our thoughts are with the family and also with those involved in investigating this tragic case.

[VulcanRam]

Imagine the dilemma the police face in cases such as this.

A suspect is arrested on suspicion of abduction. The police have 36 hours to charge or release him. During this day and a half the person abducted is without food, water, medication or care of any kind. They die during this period and the suspect is charged with murder. A sharp defence barrister argues that there had been no intent to cause death and blame the police for the fact that the victim died. A little plea bargaining and accusations of contributory negligence and the suspect finally gets a vastly reduced sentence.

Possibly the police lose their temper in an interview or doubt is expressed about the validity of some of the evidence. An appeal overturns the sentence due to “new evidence not available at the time of the original investigation.

At all stages the legal system is stacked in favour of the accused. The police must have evidence which they are not releasing at present or they would have used a holding charge of abduction. I just hope that they have not been too precipitous in bringing in a charge of murder at this juncture.

I would be happier if the media withdrew from the scene for a while rather than risk jeopardising the outcome of this tragic situation. I quite often think that we the public seem to expect to be kept abreast of all the latest developments when we have no right to do so.

Our thoughts are with the family and also with those involved in investigating this tragic case.

Except a charge of murder involves an intent to cause death or serious harm. On any basis where an adult abducts a child (Shannon Matthews case aside) it is reasonable to expect they intend to cause either of those two. Police, as long as they can gain the necessary extensions, can hold a suspect for 60 hours. In this case they changed the arrest charge from abduction to murder quite late in the day, leading to the assumption that he had either told them something or they have found a vital piece of evidence.

In terms of your second paragraph, it is unrealistic that the police would either lose their temper to such an extent it would cause a case to collapse or conviction overturned, and if new evidence comes to light at a later stage that casts reasonable doubt on a conviction, then surely the conviction should be overturned? That isn't a system 'stacked in favour' of the accused, it is a fair system. I do agree in the nonsense of the human rights legislation allowing people to avoid proper justice though; in that area yes, the system is weighted in favour of the accused.

The media is bound by strict laws and regulations. Technically the contempt of court act kicks in on arrest, though no one seems to bother with that any more. Most papers only start taking notice on a CPS charge, and given the comments made recently to the papers by a judge in Manchester regarding the Dale Cregan case, the majority are on their best behaviour, so I would be very suspended to find anything prejudicial published.

[Pearl Ram]

All I know is if the police were questioning me about a murder and I was innocent I would be bending over backwards to help them with their enquiries, a) to prove my innocence and b)to get the real perpetrator brought to justice.

This blurt Bridger's silence/un-cooperation to aid the police speaks volumes in my opinion and to that end waterboarding him is the only solution. And I don't post this in jest or for effect.

[Butthead]

If there is willful no co-operation and all standard interviewing processes fail then yes alternative attempts to extract the truth should be explored. When a vulnerable child's life is at stake, the human rights of an adult should take a back seat.

The thought of that poor little girl and what she's probably been through is truly awful, sickening.

I just can't believe that UK statistic of 2 child murders a week. Is it really true?

[ladyram]

All I know is if the police were questioning me about a murder and I was innocent I would be bending over backwards to help them with their enquiries, a) to prove my innocence and b)to get the real perpetrator brought to justice.

This blurt Bridger's silence/un-cooperation to aid the police speaks volumes in my opinion and to that end waterboarding him is the only solution. And I don't post this in jest or for effect.

I agree with you Easthearts, if he's unco-operative something needs to be done.

I might get slated for this but after he's confessed to murder, to knowing where she is and what he's done to her, the b*stard needs hanging.

[Day]

I'm not a parent but I'd like to think if I was my 5 year old wouldn't be out playing on the streets at 7.30pm.

I do have sympathy with the parents of course but it is limited in situations like this, sorry if that sounds harsh.

[-JW-]

I'm not a parent but I'd like to think if I was my 5 year old wouldn't be out playing on the streets at 7.30pm.

I do have sympathy with the parents of course but it is limited in situations like this, sorry if that sounds harsh.

Doesn't sound harsh, especially if you consider the girl has a disability as well

[VulcanRam]

We don't know how cooperative or otherwise this man has been. What we do know is that from fairly early after his arrest the search was focused on the river after it was reported tyre tracks were found in place they wouldn't normally, and then really intensified on the river at around the same time as his arrest status changed. So for all we know he has cooperated. But then maybe he hasn't. To assume he has or hasn't said anything anything is wrong as none of us have any idea what has happened in the interview room.

In terms of the 'what was she doing out at that time of night' comment, I must say that as a father of a five year old myself, that thought crossed my mind straight away. It doesn't detract from the sorrow I feel for her family.

[ladyram]

Can see your point Vulcan, but if he's got nothing to hide he would have helped police all he could have surely? The fact that he's also been charged with perverting the course of justice tells me that somewhere along the line he hasn't done all he can to help and that does nothing to help his own case.

I agree with the 'time of night' comment too. Last Monday our lad was brought in at 10 to 7, as it was getting dark, (I look at the clock more at this time of year, for some reason, especially if the kids are out). And while he's playing - most of the time - I'm stood in the kitchen watching him play footie on the green opposite our house.

Nearly every day other lads come from up the hill to play (and these are about 5/6, a bit younger than my 8 year old) but what you won't see very often at all is an accompanying parent. I know you can't watch your kids play all of the time, but they're there for at least 1 or 2 hours without any supervision, so I find myself keeping an eye on them too. It happened yesterday, no parent for ages, you'd think they'd take notice of what's happened to April but, it seems, they haven't, otherwise they'd be there.

About her disability though, I don't mean to sound like I'm being uncaring here about her condition - but her parents will have done what any other parents would have done, and encouraged her to play normally with her friends and just keep things as normal as possible.

No doubt her parents are completely blaming themselves for letting her play out unsupervised though, I'd be crucifying myself I know that. I do my best to watch our lad but there's times my eyes are not on him for a couple of minutes, and that's all it takes for somebody to pick a child up.

I don't agree with wrapping kids up in cotton wool and they should be allowed to play outside their own houses - when we were kids we sometimes ended up miles away from home) but this just proves you have to be vigilant, no matter how quiet and peaceful a community may be, especially when it's getting dark.

[Day]

I read in the news that she was allowed out later than usual due to a glowing school report, that's ok but when you look at the map and all the green directly in front of the house she could be playing on yet was allowed to play out of sight at garages near a main road.....

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/10/03/article-2211516-154F971E000005DC-345_634x422

I realise you can't wrap them up in cotton wool but 5 years old you need to be having eyes on at all times if allowed outside alone surely.

[ladyram]

Can't answer for some, but my lad knows he's not to go anywhere other than directly opposite our house. He knows this, it's drilled into him even though he knows I'm watching, but, he's 8, and like most kids, has no realistic concept of what 'bad people' are capable of, that's why they have to be watched. If he wants to go to the park on the next street, either me or Dav go with him.

So I don't know what they were thinking of, allowing her to go out of sight of their house. It happens though, it's every day round here. I guess some parents think it couldn't possibly happen to them, or some parents aren't that fussed where their kids are, until something happens to them.