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Life, the universe and everything.

Boycie

By Boycie
in The Jim Smith Room

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DCFCfranco

DCFCfranco

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No seriously.

Can't remember where I heard this (may not be true) but mars is sort of like a dead planet so it used to be like earth and Venus is a very volcanic planet with lots of different gasses like earth was when it was first made. So is it possible that eventually we could live on Venus.

And maybe the moon. I would like that.

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Butthead

Butthead

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Nope Venus is too close to the sun.

Mars is more likely and perhaps some of the moons of the gas planets.

At some point if mankind survives itself, we'd have to look to relocate to another solar system. It'd be a one-way ticket and one hell of a removals company fee

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Albert

Albert

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Its always interesting to think about what the life would be like on other planets. As things stand of course Venus is completely unlivable, as is Mars, hence any colonies that we would ever make there would basically start off separated from the environment, and for a very long time. If I recall, the current estimate is that it could take of the order of 4000 years to terraform Mars. But let's just think about why its hard for a moment:

Let's start with surface temperature. Whilst Mars can get upto a nice warm −20°C in places, Venus' surface temperature is around 450°C. There are ways of changing this, but it would be quite some job. Of course we can create climate controlled colonies, but you know...

Then there's the actual atmospheres. Now, on Earth the composition is roughly 78% Nitrogen, 21% Oxygen, 1% Argon (with about 0.05% CO2), whilst Mars is roughly 95% CO2, 3% Nitrogen, 1% Argon with trace amounts of Oxygen (0.1%). Mars' surface pressure is only around 6 milli atmospheres (6 one thousandths of Earth's surface pressure) as well, so there is a lot of work to be done there.

Venus is a whole other question, the surface pressure is around 90 atmospheres (that is, 90 times more than Earth's), and overall its similar to Mars' in that its mostly CO2. Interestingly at high altitudes its similar to Earth's atmosphere though and with some work it may be possible to terraform Venus, and ideas have been proposed before.

Then there's the magnetic fields of the planets, or lack thereof in truth. Earth's magnetic field is of enormous importance to life on Earth and helps protect the surface from the solar winds... This is a serious issue for sustaining life on both of these planets.

Then there's the length of days and years on the planets. The solar day on Venus is around 117 Earth days, and the Venus year is around 225 Earth days. The enormous length of Venus' solar days is a real problem due to the time each side is bathed in light. In a technical sense, the sidereal day on Venus is actually longer than its solar day at around 243 Earth days. A sidereal day is the length of one full rotation of the planet, rather than the length of time it takes for one spot to go from facing the sun back to facing the sun. As a point of reference, the difference between a sidereal and solar day on Earth is around 4 minutes.

As for Mars, their days are about as long as our's at around 24 hours and 40 minutes. Their years are 687 days as well, but ultimately its the length of the day that really matters and the Martian day is pretty damn good for us.

Then there's gravity. Something people may or may not think much about. If we say that the gravity on Earth is 1g this would mean that on Venus its 0.9g and on Mars 0.375g. To put it another way, a 180lb man would weight 162lb on Venus and 68lb on Mars. Now, this mightn't seem like a problem, but low gravity can have a serious effect on our health, so this is something else worth considering.

Also, just a point of clarification on the weights used above. Here we are mixing the concepts of mass and weight a bit. Most people quote their weight as weight on Earth as calibrated to scales, but that is actually measured is the force that you put on the scales due to gravity. Generally we treat these as the same, but they are subtly different. A man who's mass is 180lbs is 180lbs regardless of where he is. We tend to mix these concepts up with units due to the fact that on Earth we can as we measure things' mass by the force they put on scales, but yeah... just pointing that out so nobody else needs to.

So yeah... to summarise:

Venus v Mars:

Temp: Venus has a surface temperate that would kill us, Mars ranges from polar temperatures to nightmarishly cold, but both could possibly be changed - Mars shades this one

Atmospheres: Both are terrible, Mars' is too thin, Venus' too thick, both mostly CO2, but both could be "fixed" - Draw

Magnetic Fields: Neither have any, this is very bad - Draw

Length of Days: Mars is pretty much the same as Earth, but Venus' solar days are half the length of their years and roughly 117 Earth days. To put that another way if the sun rose on Venus on January 1st and you had sunlight for half the day, the sun would set at the end of February and wouldn't rise again until the end of April. - Mars wins this one hands down

Gravity - Venus is nice and close to us in this case, whilst Mars leaves us weighting about a third of what we do on Earth - Venus wins here

Long story short a ridiculous amount of work would be required to make either planet livable, and whilst there is a lot of sensationalism around this, we will not see either being like Earth in our lifetimes, nor will anyone until a time where our nations are considered the ancients. The Great Pyramid of Giza will nearly double in age before we're likely to have achieved such a thing, if ever.

There are also many more challenges than presented in the above, I was just trying to give a flavour of the challenges face.

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ladyram

ladyram

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Oh bless you Albert, you made me laugh when at the start of your paragraph number 12, you say - Long story short. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

Great educational post though, I really understood it. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ph34r' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ph34r:' />

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DCFCfranco

DCFCfranco

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Its always interesting to think about what the life would be like on other planets. As things stand of course Venus is completely unlivable, as is Mars, hence any colonies that we would ever make there would basically start off separated from the environment, and for a very long time. If I recall, the current estimate is that it could take of the order of 4000 years to terraform Mars. But let's just think about why its hard for a moment:

Let's start with surface temperature. Whilst Mars can get upto a nice warm −20°C in places, Venus' surface temperature is around 450°C. There are ways of changing this, but it would be quite some job. Of course we can create climate controlled colonies, but you know...

Then there's the actual atmospheres. Now, on Earth the composition is roughly 78% Nitrogen, 21% Oxygen, 1% Argon (with about 0.05% CO2), whilst Mars is roughly 95% CO2, 3% Nitrogen, 1% Argon with trace amounts of Oxygen (0.1%). Mars' surface pressure is only around 6 milli atmospheres (6 one thousandths of Earth's surface pressure) as well, so there is a lot of work to be done there.

Venus is a whole other question, the surface pressure is around 90 atmospheres (that is, 90 times more than Earth's), and overall its similar to Mars' in that its mostly CO2. Interestingly at high altitudes its similar to Earth's atmosphere though and with some work it may be possible to terraform Venus, and ideas have been proposed before.

Then there's the magnetic fields of the planets, or lack thereof in truth. Earth's magnetic field is of enormous importance to life on Earth and helps protect the surface from the solar winds... This is a serious issue for sustaining life on both of these planets.

Then there's the length of days and years on the planets. The solar day on Venus is around 117 Earth days, and the Venus year is around 225 Earth days. The enormous length of Venus' solar days is a real problem due to the time each side is bathed in light. In a technical sense, the sidereal day on Venus is actually longer than its solar day at around 243 Earth days. A sidereal day is the length of one full rotation of the planet, rather than the length of time it takes for one spot to go from facing the sun back to facing the sun. As a point of reference, the difference between a sidereal and solar day on Earth is around 4 minutes.

As for Mars, their days are about as long as our's at around 24 hours and 40 minutes. Their years are 687 days as well, but ultimately its the length of the day that really matters and the Martian day is pretty damn good for us.

Then there's gravity. Something people may or may not think much about. If we say that the gravity on Earth is 1g this would mean that on Venus its 0.9g and on Mars 0.375g. To put it another way, a 180lb man would weight 162lb on Venus and 68lb on Mars. Now, this mightn't seem like a problem, but low gravity can have a serious effect on our health, so this is something else worth considering.

Also, just a point of clarification on the weights used above. Here we are mixing the concepts of mass and weight a bit. Most people quote their weight as weight on Earth as calibrated to scales, but that is actually measured is the force that you put on the scales due to gravity. Generally we treat these as the same, but they are subtly different. A man who's mass is 180lbs is 180lbs regardless of where he is. We tend to mix these concepts up with units due to the fact that on Earth we can as we measure things' mass by the force they put on scales, but yeah... just pointing that out so nobody else needs to.

So yeah... to summarise:

Venus v Mars:

Temp: Venus has a surface temperate that would kill us, Mars ranges from polar temperatures to nightmarishly cold, but both could possibly be changed - Mars shades this one

Atmospheres: Both are terrible, Mars' is too thin, Venus' too thick, both mostly CO2, but both could be "fixed" - Draw

Magnetic Fields: Neither have any, this is very bad - Draw

Length of Days: Mars is pretty much the same as Earth, but Venus' solar days are half the length of their years and roughly 117 Earth days. To put that another way if the sun rose on Venus on January 1st and you had sunlight for half the day, the sun would set at the end of February and wouldn't rise again until the end of April. - Mars wins this one hands down

Gravity - Venus is nice and close to us in this case, whilst Mars leaves us weighting about a third of what we do on Earth - Venus wins here

Long story short a ridiculous amount of work would be required to make either planet livable, and whilst there is a lot of sensationalism around this, we will not see either being like Earth in our lifetimes, nor will anyone until a time where our nations are considered the ancients. The Great Pyramid of Giza will nearly double in age before we're likely to have achieved such a thing, if ever.

There are also many more challenges than presented in the above, I was just trying to give a flavour of the challenges face.

i see.

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