SillyBilly Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Exactly! I always here from people not from the U.S. about our gun control problems. The problems in America are quite unique from that of the rest of the world. We are very adamant about our right to bear arms dating from colonial times, Minutemen and all that. You couldn't enforce serious gun control regulation that you could actually enforce even if you did pass it. Not to mention the inability to properly police our Southern border and prevent gunrunning from Mexico into America and vice versa. You actually police your southern border? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamOfKansas Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 You actually police your southern border? We try yes, if ineffectually. They're finally actually taking it serious considering what practically amounts to a civil war is taking place just across the border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyBilly Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 We try yes, if ineffectually. They're finally actually taking it serious considering what practically amounts to a civil war is taking place just across the border. Whats the latest these days? Interms of the people trafficking and illegals, watched a decent doc the other day about the USA-Mexico border patrol, there doesn't really seem to be any deterrent, they're caught and they're taken back to Mexico to try again the next day and eventually they'll get in through persistence. I wouldn't actually criticise your policy though (you make the best of it) as we quite clearly have the benefit of a substantial moat around our island and we still managed to f**k it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butthead Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Another reason for not arming our police is we can't afford it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyBilly Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Another reason for not arming our police is we can't afford it Cause we can, just put it on the tab along with everything else Dianne Abbott orders. Buy now, pay later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamOfKansas Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Whats the latest these days? Interms of the people trafficking and illegals, watched a decent doc the other day about the USA-Mexico border patrol, there doesn't really seem to be any deterrent, they're caught and they're taken back to Mexico to try again the next day and eventually they'll get in through persistence. I wouldn't actually criticise your policy though (you make the best of it) as we quite clearly have the benefit of a substantial moat around our island and we still managed to f**k it up. Well when bullets are flying across the border at the border by El Paso over to the American side, people start freaking out a bit. Northern Mexico might as well be under the control of the Cartels. The Mexican government doesn't have the ability to do anything about it. If it keeps up, it really wouldn't suprise me to see an American intervention of some kind. I don't know if you've heard about Operation Fast and Furious but our justice department pretty much gave the cartels guns that were supposed to be tracked. Thing of it was, the battery pack on the tracker was rather short term. Huge mess that was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brammie Steve Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Should our police be ROUTINELY armed? definitely not. We as "citizens" do not routinely carry firearms nor is it an "inalienable right" so to do. I know that thugs are carrying firearms but the number of "shoot-outs" with police is mercifully rare rather than the norm as it would be if all police were always armed. There is always a case for better communication to avoid putting public servants in known dangerous situations as was, tragically the case with the 2 police ladies. We have armed response units who should have been deployed to deal with such rarities as their eventual murderer, these could and should be used sparingly. Don't routinely arm the police but bring back the mandatory death sentence for specific types of offences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Hindge Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I don't understand how police not being armed is going to save lives? Hasn't police not being armed just cost 2 innocent lives? IMO the number of lives that tey do save will be highly out numbered by the lives they end. How would the police officers being armed help? Would our police shoot first ask questions later? Utch has made a great point in that dealing with were these weapons came from as ultimately if you stop the source of all weapons how would anyone get there hands on them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyBilly Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Well when bullets are flying across the border at the border by El Paso over to the American side, people start freaking out a bit. Northern Mexico might as well be under the control of the Cartels. The Mexican government doesn't have the ability to do anything about it. If it keeps up, it really wouldn't suprise me to see an American intervention of some kind. I don't know if you've heard about Operation Fast and Furious but our justice department pretty much gave the cartels guns that were supposed to be tracked. Thing of it was, the battery pack on the tracker was rather short term. Huge mess that was. Just read about that operation, sounds like an absolute farce. We obviously share political incompetence as well as language. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 IMO the number of lives that tey do save will be highly out numbered by the lives they end. How would the police officers being armed help? Would our police shoot first ask questions later? Utch has made a great point in that dealing with were these weapons came from as ultimately if you stop the source of all weapons how would anyone get there hands on them? I really believe this is the crux of the problem. If you illegally sell or supply a gun you do so in the knowledge that it may be used to kill someone. You are as guilty as the lowlife that end up using it. Are we seriously expected to believe that the intelligence services in the UK do not know who the main players are in supplying illegal guns and other weapons like grenades to the criminal gangs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 If there was a chance of being shot for speeding or riding your bike on a footpath then yes, it may be a deterrent. The facts are that major criminals and organised crime would be far more likely to use guns themselves if the police were armed. Whoever sold that grenade to Cregan should get 20 years. Zero tolerance on carrying, selling or supplying guns would save more lives than arming the police i reckon. Agree to a certain extent, but the likelihood is that the guns and grenades came from abroad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 IMO the number of lives that tey do save will be highly out numbered by the lives they end. How would the police officers being armed help? Would our police shoot first ask questions later? Utch has made a great point in that dealing with were these weapons came from as ultimately if you stop the source of all weapons how would anyone get there hands on them? As I said in an earlier post, I am a firm believer that if you are a law abiding citizen that you will not have to worry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Hindge Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 What are you implying? Anyone want some crack? I get frustrated with this as can you not see, no guns, no one dies from guns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Agree to a certain extent, but the likelihood is that the guns and grenades came from abroad Its irrelevant where they come from originally, someone in this country is dealing, storing, supplying, selling illegal weapons. I would be very surprised if our security services had no way of closing the net on these people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 What are you implying? Anyone want some crack? I get frustrated with this as can you not see, no guns, no one dies from guns? I am implying that law abiding citizens would not have to fear police carrying guns, as I don't when I go to foreign countries where police carry guns. If you are suggesting that it is possible to stop criminals in this country from obtaining weapons I think you are living in a dream world. Ok so police don't carry guns and nobody dies from guns...what about machetes, knives etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Its irrelevant where they come from originally, someone in this country is dealing, storing, supplying, selling illegal weapons. I would be very surprised if our security services had no way of closing the net on these people. Our borders are pretty big. We fail to stop people from being smuggled in illegally, so what chance do we have with guns, grenades etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 As I said in an earlier post, I am a firm believer that if you are a law abiding citizen that you will not have to worry That is not the reason I oppose arming the police, in fact its in support of the police, as in, less gun crime, less chance of officers being shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Our borders are pretty big. We fail to stop people from being smuggled in illegally, so what chance do we have with guns, grenades etc? I understand what you mean and we are probably veering off a bit here. My point is that it would be a better use of resources to go after the major criminal gangs rather than arm all ordinary coppers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 That is not the reason I oppose arming the police, in fact its in support of the police, as in, less gun crime, less chance of officers being shot. But not arming the police would not lead to less gun crime in my opinion. Based on this logic there would be no guns in the country now as the police are not armed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I understand what you mean and we are probably veering off a bit here. My point is that it would be a better use of resources to go after the major criminal gangs rather than arm all ordinary coppers. Agree but surely that is a completely different argument? Do you think it is fair that police have to risk their lives every time they attend to a call? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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