ToonTom

5 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

I would have loved to have been in your position for all those years, Flirting around the PL, Winning the Championship twice, Football has the ability to take you to the depths of football life to the highs of emotion when winning, Even battling relegation can get the juices flowing, The football may not be pretty...like we have witnessed under several previous Managers when being set for the playoffs.

Now we're battling for our future, A battle i'm confident of winning, We'll be starting football life all over again but in which division is yet to be seen.

I said earlier that our 20 years was more desirable.

I also said that the two Championships were amazing.

I also accept that no team should feel immune to the threat of failure/relegation/administration (we came close ourselves in 1992).

But no football fan would genuinely enjoy season after season at or near the bottom of any division just trying to survive another year except in retrospect when things got even worse. But you don't live your football in retrospect - it's lived game after game and when that's soulless, unambitious, and effectively without hope of changing, it cannot be better than what follows because you don't get to know what follows until it does.

Long and short of it is that you've had a tough 20 years and we've had a tough 14 years (even if the league tables don't always tell the tale). We live with our frustrations and you live with yours. My point was that Ashley could be a short-term solution for Derby or a long-term solution in the Championship. I suspect you'll want more once you get properly stabilised again. And, indeed, you should.

4 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Wasn't it also 14th and 13th in 2 of the 3 seasons before he took over? 11th twice and 13th twice between '98 and '01 too

It was (2006 to 2002), 7th, 14th (no flirting with relegation whatsoever), 5th, 3rd, 4th.

As I think I said, the early days with Ashley weren't terrible. It what was to slowly come that you need to be wary of.

As I definitely said, you can finish 13th because of some fortunate results right at the last having had a terrible season of worry about relegation.

A case in point is last season when Joe Willock's goals got us up from 16th/17th to a final finish of 12th. I definitely wouldn't want to have to re-live that season just because we finished many places above the relegation spots.

39 minutes ago, Coconut's Beard said:

Just one of the many things the lad glossed over to paint his narrative.

Didn't mention them finishing 5th under Pardew (not that it was entertaining) and seems to think that finishes of 12th, 12th, 10th, 10th, 13th, 13th, 12th constitute being in a relegation fight every season.

Talks about Benitez, Hughton and their great squads saving them from a fate worse than Leeds, doesn't mention who appointed those managers or ensured they paid wages for a squad capable of blitzing the Championship.

Honestly although he was polite, he just reaffirmed my thoughts on a lot of their fans. This new one doesn't give me the same vibe tbf.

Alan Pardew benefited from a single magical season when Cisse could hit a barn door and still score. It was a one-hit wonder, believe me. I'm pretty sure I mentioned the two Championships, and I'm certain I didn't argue that Rafa and Hughton saved us from a fate worse than Leeds. That's very much you stirring up a big pot of prejudices and coming out with a swedge of stereotypes.

Most of those 12ths and 13ths came through a series of very late and unexpected wins. The largest part of those seasons were spent calculating how we would avoid relegation and thinking we might not. Since we avoided relegation on the final day of the 2014-2015 season (yet finished 15th - what right do we have to moan, eh?), we have been relegated, promoted, and then flirted with relegation every season until those late and unexpected points. If you don't get it, that might possibly be because you didn't live it.

It's a shame I've just reaffirmed your thoughts on a lot of NUFC fans. The reality is that if you had lived it (as a Newcastle fan, I mean), you wouldn't have said it.

57 minutes ago, WystonRam said:

St James Park is a mixture of old stands and new ones (that are way to big) and when you sit in the upper tiers of the newer stands you look down on the roofs of the older stands. The atmosphere is none existent in the upper reaches of the stands, and looking down on the pitch the players are so far away they look like toys.It is not a very joined together place, hampered by the fact it is in the middle off the city centre, so expansion has been lopsided due to the existing buildings in the immediatley surrounding areas being "in the way". The best thing for Newcastle United would be to build a brand new purpose built modern stadium and knock down their current ground.(IMO)

The challenge has always been the Leazes Terrace row of old Edwardian (?) houses. They're grade A listed or something and the council can't easily enforce a compulsory purchase order - hence, we've got a lopsided ground which is not as good on the eye as, say, a Pride Park, but it's not exactly the end of the world. If the football was better, no-one would notice the misshapen structure of the ground. We've also got a Leazes-to-Gallowgate pronounced slope (which is why we like to play towards the Gallowgate in the second-half) which is unnatural for a top-two tier ground.

We tried to build a new stadium on Leazes Park back in the 1990s but it's common ground owned by the people of Newcastle and more than enough non-footy fans (yes, there really are some) protested so that idea was canned. That idea could come back, but if it doesn't I can't see us moving away from the city centre. Two minute walk to China Town and less than another ten to the Bigg Market? We'll not be moving far if we move at all!

Like I say, give us something to get worked-up about and we'd quickly forget the anomalies of the ground ...

48 minutes ago, ram59 said:

Simple question, would swap the last 20 years you've had at Newcastle for the last 20 years that we've had at Derby?

I'd keep Newcastle's 20 years because Year 1-6 were Sir Bobby years (give or take) when we had an attacking team that was exciting to watch and - with Sir Bobby's nouse - got us Champions League football. I saw Newcastle-Barcelona in about 2004 and I was up in the Heavens and I swear you get a better view of Gateshead up there than you do of the pitch. What a waste of money paying to be that high up! Some of the Ashley years (Years 7-20) were exciting. Two Championships were great entertainment. The Rafa time was amazing.

I wouldn't want Derby's 20 years solely because of going into administration. It's terrible (as you know). I'm also a Hearts fan after 23 years in Scotland and when we went into administration in about 2014, we were nigh-on finished. 8,000 fans (including me) put in £10-£20 a month since then to give the club the platform of £1million a year which was enough to keep them afloat in the SPL. Funnily enough, we also had two seasons winning the Championship. It's crazy how wonderful any trophy is!

Derby will be safe. You've got a number of suitors. Even Cashley wouldn't be the end of the world. Ideally, you'd get owners who could afford to at least get you back into the Premiership on a solid footing and not have to endure the misery of day after day worrying about relegation.

3 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Well written piece. Haven't been to St James... It looks good on TV, but is it in reality getting tatty? 

I haven't been since April 2009 (not because we were relegated but because we moved south to Findern).

Apparently, the ground is desperately in need to TLC. Fan after fan said it on Thursday so I took it as read. The training facilities and academy have been an issue for most of Cashley's reign.

I've signed-up to this Chat to add my two-pennys worth on My Cashley.

So I'm a Barcode and proud and have been since my first game in 1971 - a drab 0-0 at home to Man City, pretty much a portent of the next half century to come. I loved seeing SuperMac and Tudor and the likes. Signing Shearer was amazing, as was coming with one game (March 4, 1996) of winning the Premiership. What Keegan showed Newcastle fans was what was possible. Just like Cloughie showed Derby and Forest fans what was possible. So it's inevitable that you hark back to those days and wish they would return. And then you get accused of having unrealistic expectations and you realise you just should have kept your mouth shut 'cos you can't win that 'argument'. Newcastle fans do not feel 'entitled' - any more than Derby or Forest fans feel 'entitled' - they just have memories of past glory days and wish they could come back. The hysteria on Barrack Road on Thursday evening was a combination of profound relief at getting rid of Cashley and also the return of hope that we might enjoy the glory days of The Entertainers back (even if no trophies came our way again like the last time - it was still fantastic to be a part of).

Anyway, to Cashley. Derby right now is a good fit for him. It's 'local' (to SDHQ) so that makes sense investing in the community, and he absolutely will run the club's finances tightly and profitably. Initially and for a few years you might feel relieved, but as the years go by you'll start to notice that there's no real investment going into the club so everything starts to deteriorate - the ground, the training faciltiies, the academy, and very soon the football. If you are in the Premiership (where you should be), you'll have season after season of worrying every day about relegation so never actually enjoying the football and - if he installs a Steve Bruce as manager one day - you'll have to watch lifeless, unattacking football at its very worst. So no expectations of any kind whilst your club falls apart from the paint downwards.

I've been in Derbyshire for just over a decade now. Pride Park is an outstanding ground and the club deserves to be in the Premiership. Cashley can secure your Championship place and the long-term future of the club, but sadly that level of security potentially comes with a massive price in the case of Cashley. Ironically, we might suffer the same consequences at St. James' but that's a wholly different debate, I suspect.