There are two different versions of a Pheonix club.
The first would be Where a new owner bought the name and badge from the administrators and transferred them to a new company. It would be done with EFL approval. The club would still be Derby County Football Club although the company behind it would be different. It would also be debt free, but would also need tie up some small technical details like finding players, coaches, a ground and training facilities.
To get EFL approval, I would expect the new owner to agree a higher payment than might be expected, so the creditors at least got something. This club would then have the golden share. FA protocol is for a three division demotion, so we should drop to the Conference. However, it was muted that there was an agreement for a League 2 place.
The problem here us that it is so late in the day to organise. The new owners would still need to show funding for the season plus a ten year stadium lease, and a League 2 club would suddenly find themselves in League 1, leaving their own business plan in tatters.
Then there's the other type of Pheonix. Effectively this would just be a new club. It could have a similar name, and would be likely to attract a decent fan base due to the need for football in Derby/shire.
In theory it should apply for entrance into tier 11 - probably Midland League Division 2. However, semi pro clubs tend to fold regularly. It's likely that there'd be a vacancy a couple of divisions higher for a club with 5k plus supporters.
This is probably a lot easier to organise. It would only need a few thousand £ and it's not going to cause the issues with fixture lists and business plans at this level. The downside is that it would feel a lot less like Derby County.
Forgive me for barging in on your messageboard but I come in peace as a Bury fan. I have never posted on another club’s board before, this could be my first and last time.
Firstly, the very best of luck. In cases like this it’s the fans, the innocents in all this, who suffer. We feel your pain, we too have been through the mill and beyond.
Bury FC, the original club, were kicked out of L1 (having just won promotion) by the EFL in late August 2019, about 3 weeks into the new season, our first half dozen fixtures were postponed so there was no record to expunge. The club was subsequently placed into administration. It remains in administration to this day but is effectively just a shell, awaiting ultimate liquidation with debts of over £12M.
If scenario 1 above had happened we would have been reinstated at tier 6 in the pyramid. It didn’t, scenario 2 happened, and a “Phoenix” club called Bury AFC was formed by the fans and funded by the fans. It was admitted into tier 10 of the pyramid, the lowest level under FA auspices. Last season, the first full covid free season, it won promotion losing only one game. The highest home crowd was 1,885, not huge but enormous in a league where 100 or so is the norm. We ground share with Radcliffe AFC, another non league club within the borough of Bury.
Bury AFC is not of course strictly speaking a Phoenix, but is referred to as such for ease of reference. It carries probably about 60pc of the original fan base. Not everyone has got on board but the majority have. The vibe is brilliant, partly as we are successful on the pitch of course, so never be afraid if this is your fate (it won’t be), you would still have a gas in “non league”, there are so many pluses compared to the EFL which make the match day experience highly enjoyable; and with your fanbase you would quickly climb back up the pyramid.
A highly unexpected turn of events happened more recently when a very small group of Bury fans emerged from nowhere with no mandate from anyone, but having apparently got strong connections with the Conservative Party. With the help of a wealthy businessman-fan now living in the USA, and with the financial help of the government which has provided up to £1M of matched funding (“levelling up”?), and the potential help of the (Labour) council, that group of fans (calling themselves Est 1885, the date of the founding of the original club) managed to buy the ground Gigg Lane, which had been subject to a charge for a loan of some £3.5M, and had fallen into a state of some disrepair. So Est 1885 have a ground but no football club, and Bury AFC are a football club with no ground (of their own). Talks are ongoing between the two with a view to a merger down the line.
A word about the EFL. Yes as useless as a chocolate teapot but presumably facing the chop or severe reform following the government’s fan-led review. Remember the EFL is in essence the 72 clubs - it gets its power from the clubs, maybe it is useless because the clubs have only ever favoured light-touch regulation of themselves for obvious reasons, so have never given the EFL the powers it really needed to provide effective governance.
So the very best of luck and whatever happens - there is no need to despair.
Worst case scenario
in Derby County Forum
Posted
Forgive me for barging in on your messageboard but I come in peace as a Bury fan. I have never posted on another club’s board before, this could be my first and last time.
Firstly, the very best of luck. In cases like this it’s the fans, the innocents in all this, who suffer. We feel your pain, we too have been through the mill and beyond.
Bury FC, the original club, were kicked out of L1 (having just won promotion) by the EFL in late August 2019, about 3 weeks into the new season, our first half dozen fixtures were postponed so there was no record to expunge. The club was subsequently placed into administration. It remains in administration to this day but is effectively just a shell, awaiting ultimate liquidation with debts of over £12M.
If scenario 1 above had happened we would have been reinstated at tier 6 in the pyramid. It didn’t, scenario 2 happened, and a “Phoenix” club called Bury AFC was formed by the fans and funded by the fans. It was admitted into tier 10 of the pyramid, the lowest level under FA auspices. Last season, the first full covid free season, it won promotion losing only one game. The highest home crowd was 1,885, not huge but enormous in a league where 100 or so is the norm. We ground share with Radcliffe AFC, another non league club within the borough of Bury.
Bury AFC is not of course strictly speaking a Phoenix, but is referred to as such for ease of reference. It carries probably about 60pc of the original fan base. Not everyone has got on board but the majority have. The vibe is brilliant, partly as we are successful on the pitch of course, so never be afraid if this is your fate (it won’t be), you would still have a gas in “non league”, there are so many pluses compared to the EFL which make the match day experience highly enjoyable; and with your fanbase you would quickly climb back up the pyramid.
A highly unexpected turn of events happened more recently when a very small group of Bury fans emerged from nowhere with no mandate from anyone, but having apparently got strong connections with the Conservative Party. With the help of a wealthy businessman-fan now living in the USA, and with the financial help of the government which has provided up to £1M of matched funding (“levelling up”?), and the potential help of the (Labour) council, that group of fans (calling themselves Est 1885, the date of the founding of the original club) managed to buy the ground Gigg Lane, which had been subject to a charge for a loan of some £3.5M, and had fallen into a state of some disrepair. So Est 1885 have a ground but no football club, and Bury AFC are a football club with no ground (of their own). Talks are ongoing between the two with a view to a merger down the line.
A word about the EFL. Yes as useless as a chocolate teapot but presumably facing the chop or severe reform following the government’s fan-led review. Remember the EFL is in essence the 72 clubs - it gets its power from the clubs, maybe it is useless because the clubs have only ever favoured light-touch regulation of themselves for obvious reasons, so have never given the EFL the powers it really needed to provide effective governance.
So the very best of luck and whatever happens - there is no need to despair.