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2012 CL Final-Chelsea v Bayern Munich/Sun lounger reserver's ETC,ETC.


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My view is that what ever team creates the most clear opportunitites to score deserve to win the game, you may disagree, but i dont believe just because one team scores more than another they deserved to win the game, that is a blinkered and very narrow minded view imo. Do you think managers look at games where they've been outplayed but still win and dont think they need to do anything different? Do you think managers think, yep if we keep playing like that we wont be beaten?

I thought Chelsea were the better side at home to Napoli and away to Benfica, hardly the stuff of champions but i wouldnt argue with anyone that says they deserved to beat both of those sides over two legs. Now away at Benfica was a good defensive display, they actually restricted them to very little, not just rely on the failures of the opposition. Barca and Bayern lost the games themselves and Chelsea took advantage.

I dont think any side that is playing for penalties from a long way out deserves to win a game of football.

I am afraid that 'Deserved' means Jack Tish in the real world. In the history of football nothing has ever been awarded for having the most possession, having the most shots or playing the prettier football. The only way to have success is by sticking the ball in the oppositions net more than one pops into yours. That, young man is all that matters!

There is nothing at all wrong with a team playing defensively. It can make for a fascinating game if they line up to restrict and say to the other side come and have a go at getting through this.

That is the beauty of football, it is not always about two sides trying to attack each other. It is about thinking about the game, using tactics that suit the players that you have to your disposal and of course the opposition.

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This was an away tie European cup final for Chelsea and they won. Bris Vegas and his football purism lost the night, the English drunk in glory in Deutschland's home of beer. Europe's elite prize goes to London, shortly to be accompanied by another European cup, held aloft by England's national hero; stolid but soldierly, racist but ructious, philanderer but pugnacious, the one, the only, John Terry.

*I don't write the scipts, I just deliver them.

If John Terry is ever declared a national hero then God help us. I think he undermined the players that actually took part in the game by stripping down to his shirt for the photographs holding the trophy, but, he can't help himself can he ? It's all about JT with JT, as long as he's got framed photographs at home of himself holding the trophy, sod the players that actually won it on the night. Horrible man in my opinion.
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You may not like it, but of course the team who scores more goals deserves to win the game. That's what the game is all about. It's in the very letters of the law of the game.

Irrespective of whether you win or lose as a Manager, you'll adapt your tactic to the situation and the game to hand. That's why Chelsea were able to overpower Napoli in their second leg, and why they were never in trouble against Benfica in the QF. Barcelona are the most dangerous side in the world, unsurprisingly, they didn't play them in the same way that they'd taken Napoli and Benfica apart. Finally, against a superb Bayern side, in their own stadium, they decided to play the tactics that had served them well during two games against arguably the world's greatest side. Even without Terry and Ivanovic they were capable of restricting Bayern to half chances and long range efforts.

Benfica aren't as good as either Bayern or Barcelona. In truth, nowhere near. They were always going to create more. Di Matteo gambled that the defense that had stood up with ease to Benfica, and Napoli at home, would have enough to withstand Bayern. They did.

I think they were playing for penalties during ET, however I suspect that the aim through 90 minutes was to contain Bayern and hit them on the break. The Kalou effort summed up what Chelsea were looking to do.

Tell that to every manager and player that's ever been involved in the game, i can guarantee you they've all said 'we didnt deserve to lose that' at some point in their career.

In essence, of course you're point is right. In reality there will always be other factors considered when determining whether a victory was deserved in any sport or game by all different groups of people. If bookies took all results literally they wouldnt make money, if managers/coaches/competitors ignored everything but the final outcome nobody would learn or progress.

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Tell that to every manager and player that's ever been involved in the game, i can guarantee you they've all said 'we didnt deserve to lose that' at some point in their career.

I'm sure they probably have. Of course every single one of them would also tell you that they'd rather win than dominate and lose. Especially a major cup final.

In essence, of course you're point is right. In reality there will always be other factors considered when determining whether a victory was deserved in any sport or game by all different groups of people. If bookies took all results literally they wouldnt make money, if managers/coaches/competitors ignored everything but the final outcome nobody would learn or progress.

I think it's probably safe to say that there's two sides to every story, even in football. It's all subjective. Personally, I can appreciate the defensive side of the game just as much as the attacking side. I also think that everyone has a little bit of luck along the way when you win a major tournament, some more than others. Chelsea's courage in the face of Barcelona's overwhelming might, and in playing Bayern under the most hostile of conditions, afforded them a little luck IMO.

Barcelona aside, no other side has scored as many goals as Chelsea have in winning the Champions League. At least not since they changed the format to remove the second group stage - Two of Barcelona's three recent wins yielded more goals, but besides that, no one has scored more. When Milan won it in the final year of the two group stages, they scored less still, even though they played more games. Suffice to say, Chelsea attacked the sides that they knew they'd get most joy out of, and then adapted their tactics for the harder challenges of Barcelona and Bayern.

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I agree wit EKR all the way and I think that Staff you're being very narrow-minded in thinking tht the result determines who deserves to win.. LIke EKR says, if you take out the performances no-one would have any discussion about football.. If every win, draw and lose is deserved then we mayaswell pack football up altogether and just look at it from a numbers point of view..

No-one can honestly say that Chelsea deserved to win the game nor the previous ones.. And those that say Barca and Bayern defended terribly, I don't see how restricting the opposition to only a few chances counts as terrible defending.. If anything, Chelseas prolificy infront of goal was far more impressive.. They got outshot by Barca over the two ties by 8 to 1.. And by Bayern 5.5 to 1 in the final.. Incredible, if Drogba had been playing for the other team and had the same efficiency, you'd expect Chelsea to be on the end of a double figure loss..

Something else amazing is that if Bayern had the same goal ratio as Chelsea from corners they'd have scored 19 goals.. Nueur had 2 things to do all night, the easy save from Kalou and pick the ball out the night..

What I find amazing is that a team who finishes 6th ends up winning the CL.. How did that happen? It's never happened in recent years, a team domestically so bad wins a competition against harder opposition..

Keeping clean sheets also doesn't tell the story of a team being good defensively.. Chelsea can thank their lucky stars that Barca hit the woodwork 4 times over the two legs, missed a penalty, had one cleared off the line and another one where 9/10 the player scores an open goal from 10 yards.. Is that defensively good or perhaps slightly lucky?

In 100 years Chelseas name will always be on the cup, but no-one will ever remember them in the same way no-one will remember Milan winning on penalties in 2003 as the team itself was largely average and the style of football worse..

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Also where do Chelsea go from here? Give RDM the managerial job? Does anyone actually see them chasing the title next season? Playing like they do?

Luck can win you a few games, but over a season? Well actually Billy Davies did it with us so I wouldn't rule it out just yet

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I agree wit EKR all the way and I think that Staff you're being very narrow-minded in thinking tht the result determines who deserves to win.. LIke EKR says, if you take out the performances no-one would have any discussion about football.. If every win, draw and lose is deserved then we mayaswell pack football up altogether and just look at it from a numbers point of view..

You're right Bris, of course you are. That's why parallel results are recorded in the history books determining who should have won along side who actually did win.

No-one can honestly say that Chelsea deserved to win the game nor the previous ones.. And those that say Barca and Bayern defended terribly, I don't see how restricting the opposition to only a few chances counts as terrible defending.. If anything, Chelseas prolificy infront of goal was far more impressive.. They got outshot by Barca over the two ties by 8 to 1.. And by Bayern 5.5 to 1 in the final.. Incredible, if Drogba had been playing for the other team and had the same efficiency, you'd expect Chelsea to be on the end of a double figure loss..

Chelsea being restricted in terms of opportunities was down to the respective midfields of both Barcelona and Bayern. They were rarely allowed to penetrate far enough to bother the backline. In both cases, when they did, they were far more potent than their counterparts. If you want to put that down to Chelsea's clinical efficiency fine, if you want to put it down to poor efforts by Bayern's and Barcelona's backline fine. It makes very little difference as Chelsea, in either scenario were far more efficient in converting what they created.

Something else amazing is that if Bayern had the same goal ratio as Chelsea from corners they'd have scored 19 goals.. Nueur had 2 things to do all night, the easy save from Kalou and pick the ball out the night..

Bayern 0 goals from 19 corners. Chelsea 1 goal from 1 corner. Efficient. Clinical.

What I find amazing is that a team who finishes 6th ends up winning the CL.. How did that happen? It's never happened in recent years, a team domestically so bad wins a competition against harder opposition..

I think that's more a reflection of Chelsea's under-performance in the league. It's doubtful that Tottenham or Newcastle would ever have done to Barcelona or Bayern what Chelsea have, yet both finished above them in the league.

Keeping clean sheets also doesn't tell the story of a team being good defensively.. Chelsea can thank their lucky stars that Barca hit the woodwork 4 times over the two legs, missed a penalty, had one cleared off the line and another one where 9/10 the player scores an open goal from 10 yards.. Is that defensively good or perhaps slightly lucky?

Shots hitting the woodwork are shots off-target. That's not luck, that's poor finishing. Equally, missing a penalty isn't unlucky, it's poor finishing. Not scoring from 10 yards, poor finishing.

In 100 years Chelseas name will always be on the cup, but no-one will ever remember them in the same way no-one will remember Milan winning on penalties in 2003 as the team itself was largely average and the style of football worse..

I'd wager that Milan fans won't give a toss. Much like Chelsea fans won't either, then, or now.

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Also where do Chelsea go from here? Give RDM the managerial job? Does anyone actually see them chasing the title next season? Playing like they do?

Luck can win you a few games, but over a season? Well actually Billy Davies did it with us so I wouldn't rule it out just yet

How do we know how they'll play next season? This season's success has been built upon a team that he inherited. RDM's employed the tactics dictated by the limitations of his squad. Presumably, in the summer, if he gets the job, he'll be allowed to start rebuilding it. Considering that he's won the FA Cup, and the Champions League with someone else's team, where they couldn't win fook all with it, then I wouldn't even hazard a guess as to what they'll be capable of.

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Shots hitting the woodwork are shots off-target. That's not luck, that's poor finishing. Equally, missing a penalty isn't unlucky, it's poor finishing. Not scoring from 10 yards, poor finishing.

You're absoloutely right Staffs.. It was poor finishing, poor finishing doesn't equate to good defending.. It's not the same thing.. As EKR was saying, people bemoan goals as bad defending when in reality it's not true.. We kept so many clean sheets under Billy Davies, was that due to good defending? If so, why couldn't the same back 4 defend like that in the PL?

You can concede 3 goals but defned really well, you can also keep a clean sheet and defend terribly..

People are saying that Chelseas defence was amazing and their defensive play was what won them the CL.. I disagree, I thought against Bayern and especially Barca in the first leg their defence was all over the place and it was a miracle that during those 180 minutes only 1 goal was conceded.. That was down to damn poor finishing not excellent defending..

It's easy to look at this and think Chelsea couldn't have done anything more.. The best they could have hoped for was to knock Barca out on away goals (which looked the story until the 95th in the Nou Camp when Barca had no defenders) and to beat Bayern on penalties.. Barca and Bayern don't need to panic at all, yes they've lost, but 19/20 they would have won both games..

I still lable Chelseas victory up there with Greece 2004.. Both are easily the biggest shocks in my lifetime of watching football..

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Not sure how to respond to that. I'm at a loss.

At a loss about what? Setting your team up to play on the 18 yard line restricts your chances of winning the game.. Not once in the whole 120 minutes did Chelsea go forward with any conviction of a team looking to win a game..

They played for penalties from the off (with the tiny hope of scrapping a goal from a set-piece or something) and got exactly what they wanted.. Penalties were the only option of them winning as there was no way in hell they had the capacity or mentality to beat Bayern in regular time..

They played the perfect match with a huge helping hand from Bayerns lack of prolificy infront of goal.. They couldn't have asked or wished for any more.. Getting to penalties was 'job done' for them

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So, they won it wrong? Isn't that better than losing it right?

Fair play to Chelsea, they only really had one way they could play and stand a chance of winning, and that's what they did.

You're obviously a closet Chelsea fan. Your profile picture is of David Luiz ffs.

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You're absoloutely right Staffs.. It was poor finishing, poor finishing doesn't equate to good defending.. It's not the same thing.. As EKR was saying, people bemoan goals as bad defending when in reality it's not true.. We kept so many clean sheets under Billy Davies, was that due to good defending? If so, why couldn't the same back 4 defend like that in the PL?

It's not true some of the time, not all of the time.

Let's take a look at the highlights;

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6qUstn8YQ0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6qUstn8YQ0

Messi - Put off by Cahill and forced to shoot wide

Messi - Great save by Cech

Iniesta - Blocked by Cahill

Mascherano - Forced to shoot from range - over the bar

Busquets - Goal

Iniesta - Goal

Ramirez - Goal

Messi - Missed penalty (Cech was going the right way anyway)

Sanchez - missed header, put off by Ivanovic

Busquets - Crowded out and shot over

Sanchez - Shot wide, but the guy pulling the ball back for him was offside when played through. Misssed by the officials.

Torres - Goal. Bye bye Barcelona

Great defensive work by Chelsea.

You can concede 3 goals but defned really well, you can also keep a clean sheet and defend terribly..

You can, but not consistently. Apparently Chelsea fluked their way past Barcelona at Stamford Bridge, Barcelona in the Nou Camp, Bayern in the Allianz - luck just isn't that consistent.

People are saying that Chelseas defence was amazing and their defensive play was what won them the CL.. I disagree, I thought against Bayern and especially Barca in the first leg their defence was all over the place and it was a miracle that during those 180 minutes only 1 goal was conceded.. That was down to damn poor finishing not excellent defending..

Well you're certainly entitled to your opinion, and I'm sure I'm as likely to change it as you are mine so probably best to leave it at that.

It's easy to look at this and think Chelsea couldn't have done anything more.. The best they could have hoped for was to knock Barca out on away goals (which looked the story until the 95th in the Nou Camp when Barca had no defenders) and to beat Bayern on penalties.. Barca and Bayern don't need to panic at all, yes they've lost, but 19/20 they would have won both games..

I doubt that Chelsea will be panicking either. They've beaten both with a very average Chelsea side. They'll be stronger next year. Will Vilanova get as much out of his side as Guardiola did? It's hard to see him doing any better.

I still lable Chelseas victory up there with Greece 2004.. Both are easily the biggest shocks in my lifetime of watching football..

Shocked that Barcelona couldn't score more goals against a side that they'd failed to so against in the previous 5 meetings before those two games? How much more warning do you need?

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Shocked that Barcelona couldn't score more goals against a side that they'd failed to so against in the previous 5 meetings before those two games? How much more warning do you need?

I think these past meeting stats like Sky love to use are pretty irellevent they went back to 2000 I believe and you get different players, managers, tatics formations etc. Contrast Barcelona in 2005 to Barcelona in 2012, the same for Chelsea two completly different teams.

We have a decent record in previous games v Man City, only lost twice in 15, but we would have no chance against them if we played tommorrow.

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^^ True, to a point.

The two meetings previous to this season were in 2009 - plenty of players on both sides are still around in the respective teams.

Two meetings that Barcelona dodgily won on away goals.

Even before that, back in 2007 many of the same players were playing. Again, two games, one Chelsea win, one draw.

Either way, Chelsea have proven down the years that they're more than capable of producing teams that can stand up to Barcelona.

Since 2005, Chelsea have won three, drawn five and lost two. It should hardly come as a surprise that Chelsea can today, like 3 years ago, five years ago, or seven years ago, produce a team that can stop Barcelona scoring more than them.

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