Interesting table on when teams in the Championship score/concede goals

[sage]

Bris, I see you haven't got an answer to my two points.

[curb]

Looking at that table, we don't seem to score many goals in the last 15 mins.

Ahem

[Bris Vegas]

1. Statistics can't be judged as relevant or otherwise based on whether the compiler (or sharer in case) attended the game. I challenge you to provide evidence where I or any other poster suggested otherwise.

2. However the conclusions reached from reading these stats need to be carefully considered.You came to a conclusion about the tactics used in the Peterborough game, based on prejudice rather than observation (of any type) and analysis.

I look forward to your reply to those two points.

1. When I started that thread, instead of discussing any of the relevant information that I kindly provided for you and a few of your sidekicks, you kept on asking whether I was there in Peterborough that afternoon, which we both obviously knew that I wasn't as I live half way around the world.. Then it was a case of 'case closed as this person can't possibly have an opinion unless he attends the games' which to be fair was rather an amusing stance to take given that many people on here like myself don't have the opportunity to attend games..

2. I based my opinion on facts before the game, during the game and especially the last 15 minutes of the game.. Having watched the match, I still believe us to be negative during those final minutes.. Again, instead of commenting on the actual thread, you once again went off on another crusade about how I didn't attend the game.. I came to the conclusion that you think you're a better fan because you attend games, otherwise why else would you keep going on about it 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong and maybe we can actually discuss the stats shown in the table above.. Perhaps we could even go as far as pointing out the problems, and how to rectify the problem.. Or would you rather talk about how I don't attend games?

[sage]

You haven't answered my points.

Where did I state stats aren't relevant from someone who didn't go to the game? Nowhere, because I never said it. I await your apology for claiming I did say that.

I don't think I'm a better fan than you or anyone else who goes to less matches than me. I do however think you shouldn't comment on tactics employed in a game which you haven't seen in any format.

I still don't understand how you can do that.

[RotherhamRam]

The tactics can't be all that bad seeing as we score more goals than anyone in the 61-75min stage of the game. We don't lose many this season when we are in the last 15mins. We have held onto some wins.

52pts with 9 games left (I think) 4pts needed to reach Cloughs best total where we finished 14th.

Pts are all that matters, performances are nice but the results are crucial. This is especially the case which contains a match day squad of new and young players who not many have proper experience at this level of football. If you look at the squad for Forest and the number of games players have played for us and how many of the young players have played in the championship, I would say this squad had performed better than some would imagine possible.

I can remember debating with someone remaining nameless that they bet me Barnsley would finish above Derby as they were the better team, played better football and their manager although from a lower league was tactically better than Clough. I disagreed and at present Derby are 9pts clear of them. So Clough for me is doing fine with what he has and the tactics primarily are working. Imagine if Clough had the top striker and the midfield general he wanted and was promised at the beginning of the season. The question is where would we be now seeing that we are 7pts of playoff position.

[-JW-]

Sage and Bris, will you two stop flirting and make love already.

[sage]

Sage and Bris, will you two stop flirting and make love already.

We used to make love, but then he cheated on me with Sideshowbob.

[Bris Vegas]

You haven't answered my points.

Where did I state stats aren't relevant from someone who didn't go to the game? Nowhere, because I never said it. I await your apology for claiming I did say that.

I don't think I'm a better fan than you or anyone else who goes to less matches than me. I do however think you shouldn't comment on tactics employed in a game which you haven't seen in any format.

I still don't understand how you can do that.

So why did you bombard me with messages asking if I went to the game? Instead of discussing the information that I had presented? If I told you the moon was round, would you actually agree/disagree with me and say your reasons or would you merely say 'How would you know when you haven't been' etc..

My thread that I created had about 13 pages.. Only 4 of those were on topic, the other 9 or so was full of your spam asking if I was there or not.. Like whether me being there has some sort of relevance to our mentality in the final stages of the game..

Not once have you ever debated something that I've written football related... Just cheap shots everytime.. Seems to me that you're incapable of debating the things I say, I do wonder why..

[Bris Vegas]

I can remember debating with someone remaining nameless that they bet me Barnsley would finish above Derby as they were the better team, played better football and their manager although from a lower league was tactically better than Clough. I disagreed and at present Derby are 9pts clear of them. So Clough for me is doing fine with what he has and the tactics primarily are working. Imagine if Clough had the top striker and the midfield general he wanted and was promised at the beginning of the season. The question is where would we be now seeing that we are 7pts of playoff position.

Was that before or after Drinkwater, Butterfield and Vaz Te were taken away from them.. When we supposedly had our best players missing (Bailey(?), Barker, Davies) we were losing left right and centre.. We suffered that for a couple of months, Barnsley have lost them all for the majority of the season.. They'll regroup and improve next season.. Derby have exceeded my expectations this year, the performances haven't improved much but points wise if we can get to 60+ that would mark an improvement..

But I won't stop you whilst you're in the midst of another 'I told you so' post.. Keep going..

[RotherhamRam]

Was that before or after Drinkwater, Butterfield and Vaz Te were taken away from them.. When we supposedly had our best players missing (Bailey(?), Barker, Davies) we were losing left right and centre.. We suffered that for a couple of months, Barnsley have lost them all for the majority of the season.. They'll regroup and improve next season.. Derby have exceeded my expectations this year, the performances haven't improved much but points wise if we can get to 60+ that would mark an improvement..

But I won't stop you whilst you're in the midst of another 'I told you so' post.. Keep going..

The players you have mentioned went in January so will only have missed them for about 4 months Barnsley have missed them.

Bailey out for 3 months, Barker out for 5 months at the beginning of the season and Steve Davies out for 4 months. So to be fair not much difference teams have been without players. On top of this we have had Brayford out now for nearly 31/2months and been down to our 5 and 6th choice. So on balance Barnsley in no worse position now then we have been at times.

It is nice to see how the right side of the defence missing in Barker and Brayford but still get results, just glad it is only for the last 9 or 10 games and we not in relegation battle as the pressure is off Buxton (who is an old CB nothing fancy) and young Tom Naylor so if they make a mistake it won't matter that much.

[sage]

So why did you bombard me with messages asking if I went to the game? Instead of discussing the information that I had presented? If I told you the moon was round, would you actually agree/disagree with me and say your reasons or would you merely say 'How would you know when you haven't been' etc..

My thread that I created had about 13 pages.. Only 4 of those were on topic, the other 9 or so was full of your spam asking if I was there or not.. Like whether me being there has some sort of relevance to our mentality in the final stages of the game..

Not once have you ever debated something that I've written football related... Just cheap shots everytime.. Seems to me that you're incapable of debating the things I say, I do wonder why..

I'm not sure how me posting, then you posting a response, then me responding is bomabarding you with messages, but hey ho, this will be my last post on the matter, as your infinitesimal ways not to answer basic questions would suggest a future in politics awaits you.

I'm quite happy to discuss tactics and formations, however what i'm not happy with is being accused of something with no evidence to back it up or indeed a thread being started on the premise of an assumption dressed as fact. Both of these matters are falsehoods and I feel justified in challenging them. You haven't produced a clear answer to my questions, so at the minute, I still believe your comments to be falsehoods.

If you or anyone else starts a thread based on a stat such as how many points we have dropped late in games, compared to how many we have gained late in games and people are allowed their views without them being trampled on, then I will gladly join that tactical debate. My views on our tactics may be similar to yours at times, but if you continue to move the goalposts of your stat gathering, make only negative remarks about the club and create falsehoods, the actual gist of your argument will lose all credibility.

[Asanovic]

Just dug this out - it's a table showing where we are after playing 37 games this season.

[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/championship/table]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/championship/table

[PBW Ram]

what I have noticed is that you're actually not allowed to "debate" any points with Bris. Just need to let him keep going on and on.

debate them with sensible arguments - it gets ignored anyway. You come back and call someone stupid (without having the balls to call you stupid - you'll usually add something caliming like "even more delusional than I thought" or "you and your sidekicks" very classy.) and then repeat your points anyway based on this incredible knowledge of the game which you have gained through your experience of watching many games on TV and doing ok on internet betting.

debate them with humour and it gets deleted.

debate them asking you just to give over and you end up getting labelled a sidekick or worse getting a warning from admin for being abusive.

Now I'll etiher get warned or have my message deleted - this is despite the fact that this one poster single handedly destroys the mood of the board every single weekend for many of us.... yet you are the victim??

Never mind - Bris, you can always label someone a sidekick, or a blind faither or a delusional - that's fine eh?

Barnsely are better than us already - just you wait and see next season they'll show us you were right. AGAIN obviously.

(can you hear those goalposts scraping along again?)

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day Bris.

[Day]

what I have noticed is that you're actually not allowed to "debate" any points with Bris. Just need to let him keep going on and on.

debate them with sensible arguments - it gets ignored anyway. You come back and call someone stupid (without having the balls to call you stupid - you'll usually add something caliming like "even more delusional than I thought" or "you and your sidekicks" very classy.) and then repeat your points anyway based on this incredible knowledge of the game which you have gained through your experience of watching many games on TV and doing ok on internet betting.

debate them with humour and it gets deleted.

debate them asking you just to give over and you end up getting labelled a sidekick or worse getting a warning from admin for being abusive.

Now I'll etiher get warned or have my message deleted - this is despite the fact that this one poster single handedly destroys the mood of the board every single weekend for many of us.... yet you are the victim??

Never mind - Bris, you can always label someone a sidekick, or a blind faither or a delusional - that's fine eh?

Barnsely are better than us already - just you wait and see next season they'll show us you were right. AGAIN obviously.

(can you hear those goalposts scraping along again?)

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day Bris.

What I've actually noticed is Bris isn't allowed to have an opinion because he doesn't go to games

What I've noticed is that it's ok to give people stick but soon as it's given it back it's like ohhhh noo he can't talk to us like that!

What I've noticed is that Bris, RotherhamRam and sageisback all have polar opposite views and like to round in circles ripping each others posts apart.

This is a forum and it's open to ALL opinions, negative, positive and from Mexico. The sooner people realise this the better.

And yes threads open to purely troll another member will be deleted.

[PBW Ram]

what is trolling Daveo?

Is it coming on after we've just done the double over forest for the first time in 40 years and complaining? Is it within 30 minutes of a game posting how **** we were? Is it the constant "how **** are derby" posts? on a derby country forum.

Is it starting a post by asking someone if they've reached an intelligent enough level to read? Is it by saying you and your sidekicks? does that help?

I've got to stop - I know that "arguing" with the mods is not the right step - I'm just struggling to see exaclty why RR and SIB are in the wrong but BV isn't.

In my opinion the mood of the board is constantly dragged down due to BV not loving this football club the way he should love it if he is a fan.

By the way yesterday was the managers birthday and tomorrow is the anniversary of his dads birthday. I'd prefer to concentrate on celebrating how much one Clough achieved and how badly the other one wants to do the same.

[Deano]

Least interesting stats I have ever read.

[Day]

what is trolling Daveo?

3) No Trolling - A troll is a person who intentionally attempts to disrupt, cause controversy, incite an argument, and/or receive negative attention by deliberately posting provocative content.

Is it coming on after we've just done the double over forest for the first time in 40 years and complaining? Is it within 30 minutes of a game posting how **** we were? Is it the constant "how **** are derby" posts? on a derby country forum.

Coming on here after being beaten by Stoke and saying we played well?

Yes you can say that Bris's opinions can cause controversy, incite an argument and receive negative attention but at the same time I could say that overly positive posts/threads could do the same.

Is it starting a post by asking someone if they've reached an intelligent enough level to read? Is it by saying you and your sidekicks? does that help?

Like I say if you give it you have to take it, I saw a post the other day to Bris which said something like "Listen Child" or "Look here child". It works both ways, if you want us to remove this kind of comments we can do but the same rules will apply to all members and I'll have to take on another 10 or so moderators to keep up.

I've got to stop - I know that "arguing" with the mods is not the right step - I'm just struggling to see exaclty why RR and SIB are in the wrong but BV isn't.

I haven't said RR and SIB are in the wrong, the 2hr Anniversary thread was trolling and not needed, had they got along and it was a bit of banter no problem but it was an obvious attempt to lure Bris into another 10 pager and it worked so I banished it. All 3 of them should take a step back and think is it worth replying to X member as it's clear we have opposite views and will never agree.

In my opinion the mood of the board is constantly dragged down due to BV not loving this football clun the way he should love it if he is a fan.

I'd strongly disagree, the only thing that controls the mood is the Derby result.

[PBW Ram]

I dont think anyone is asking for bris to be banned or for him to stop posting. I do think we CAN and should take it if we dish it out.

That also applies to him though surely, He's not such a shrinking violet that he can get offended because people reply.

even this morning he talks about getting crucified?? talk about ful of self importance. he didnt and doesnt get crucified, he gets disagreed with. If he cant take that then why post?

I can't believe bris posts his views NOT to get a reaction, he'll be like the rest of us, he'll post and then log in to read what people have replied with. the fact that he has kept this topic going for so long shows that he MUST know already that he can't expect positive replies. PRE - MEDITATED trolling surely?

As for the Derby result controlling the mood of the board. How come it hasn't been euphoric this week? how come within an hour of us beating the trees was there an argument about our negativity?

I think we've just got to roll with it Daveo - it's not fair for the mods to take sides - either for the minortiy or for the majority.

Personal insults shouldn't be allowed.

[blackNwhites]

I think Daveo is trying to say you're all as bad as each other...maybe.

As much as Bris would put his point across, he is actually capable of having a discussion even if both parties see things in different ways. Without insults and derogative comments.

Bris is a fan, he wants to see Derby attempting to be more attacking and positive. The things I think most of us disagree with him for is that Derby aren't quite ready to go all out without a bit more experience due to silly errors made by the younguns. Cywka for example, great potential but not a complete player and seemingly reluctant to learn. That's probably why he went..

..anyway I'm rambling.

The thing I've learned most within this thread is that I dislike that graph, it's way to confusing for me.

[Day]

I dont think anyone is asking for bris to be banned or for him to stop posting. I do think we CAN and should take it if we dish it out.

That also applies to him though surely, He's not such a shrinking violet that he can get offended because people reply.

100%, as long as it doesn't result in foul language

even this morning he talks about getting crucified?? talk about ful of self importance. he didnt and doesnt get crucified, he gets disagreed with. If he cant take that then why post?

Not a question I can answer.

I can't believe bris posts his views NOT to get a reaction, he'll be like the rest of us, he'll post and then log in to read what people have replied with. the fact that he has kept this topic going for so long shows that he MUST know already that he can't expect positive replies.

I've read Bris's posts for a long time, waaaay back to the DET forum, he posts his opinion just the the rest of the members. Of course he will check on replies as that's the point of a forum isn't it? and 1 member can't keep a thread going by himself....apart from Froggg and his cricket updates

As for the Derby result controlling the mood of the board. How come it hasn't been euphoric this week? how come within an hour of us beating the trees was there an argument about our negativity?

Within an hour of beating Forest the main talking point was about the Doughty chants, if there was negativity in other threads it certainly didn't control the mood of the board.

I think we've just got to roll with it Daveo - it's not fair for the mods to take sides - either for the minortiy or for the majority.

I agree and I'm not taking sides, forum rules will apply the same to all members

Personal insults shouldn't be allowed.

Again I agree totally, I wrote the rules for the forum, call someone a t**t, p***k etc. and warnings will be issued, 2 warnings and it's an early bath. Currently we don't view calling another member deluded as an insult, the rules can be rewritten tho if members agree they want this kind of thing moderated.

Anyhow I'll step back now and hopefully the thread can continue back on topic, if anyone wants to discuss anything I've said in this thread I'll be more than happy to by Private Message.