sage Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I would agree that the real benefit of getting rid of Bywater, Pearson, Leacock, Martin, Rigott and Cywka won't be ffully realised till next season. As I said in the thread 'Striker a priority' are the owners via GSE going to turn their recent wages subsidy of circa £2.5m a year into a fee subsidy of £2.5m a year now we are in the vicinity of break even on wages. As you say, there are no excuses next season. If they don't give NC money to spend this summer, they never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackNwhites Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Not really,blackNwhites,all I'm saying is that there should be investment if we're expected to compete in top 6.Nothing changes,just the rather convenient excuse for not signing the players that Clough said were needed to mount a challenge this year won't apply next year (hence the reference to fancy footwork). Yeah, sounds about right. Ho hum, guess we'll have to wait and see what the Glick says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I would agree that the real benefit of getting rid of Bywater, Pearson, Leacock, Martin, Rigott and Cywka won't be ffully realised till next season. As I said in the thread 'Striker a priority' are the owners via GSE going to turn their recent wages subsidy of circa £2.5m a year into a fee subsidy of £2.5m a year now we are in the vicinity of break even on wages. As you say, there are no excuses next season. If they don't give NC money to spend this summer, they never will. Out of curiosity,would your opinion change radically if this didn't happen? As you appear to have missed the RD interview,I can tell you that it doesn't appear to be a likelihood. I like to be seen on this forum as someone who can be relied upon to provide reliable facts and hope that I encourage those with an open mind to think for themselves based on such facts (I usually say where they're to be found,thus putting my credibility on the line.In spite of the fact that several others are known to have access to the accounts and that it would be fair to say that they tend to be pro board,I don't remember my figures having been challenged). I also store in the memory banks any comments of a financial nature that can't be immediately tested (due to delay in published accounts) and then test them when the accounts come out.I didn't see the AA/AP interview, that I recently linked,when it was first published as I didn't have internet access at the time.Ironically,a pro board poster referred me back to it on the DET forum,otherwise I may never have seen it.It was the first thing that defined my attitude to future club statements,as I immediately saw 3 questionable things. Firstly,I wondered why things were backdated to Jan 1st,when the owners took over on Jan 25th -why did they need this little period to supplement 'investments'?. Secondly,I immediately recognised that the repayment of £10.4m Five Arrows loan represented a reduction in debt of this amount,so why (having earlier boasted of a £6m reduction) was the further reduction of £10m (as indicated by Pearson) required to get the debt down to £15m (from £31m).? The 3rd one is my continuing test for everyone-I've posted this link several times over the past couple of years and nobody ever seemed to have noticed something a little odd. I think fans are often mesmerised by the hype,rather than actually analysing what's being said. Apologies for veering off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 SISU and dodging bullets - that's one of the worries I have with the "sack the board" argument. Clearly the current owners have no interest in funding us that £1.5m striker - they're playing the long game and I think that will involve reducing costs and taking advantage of FFP when it eventually comes in. Unless there's a backup plan for who will step in, you might get Mk 2 Amigos/SISU/Gaydamak/Chanrai or some other dodgy group of people step in and take up the slack. Plenty of examples of predatory people coming in to take advantage of football's easy access to debt. I really do hope football's bubble is bursting, 'cos it's **** boring at the minute. If success boils down to how much you can spend, I think I'll take up golf. Golf? Sorry, we're talking about sport here. May i direct you to the Entertainment section... 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.shilton Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 SISU and dodging bullets - that's one of the worries I have with the "sack the board" argument. Clearly the current owners have no interest in funding us that £1.5m striker - they're playing the long game and I think that will involve reducing costs and taking advantage of FFP when it eventually comes in. Unless there's a backup plan for who will step in, you might get Mk 2 Amigos/SISU/Gaydamak/Chanrai or some other dodgy group of people step in and take up the slack. Plenty of examples of predatory people coming in to take advantage of football's easy access to debt. I really do hope football's bubble is bursting, 'cos it's **** boring at the minute. If success boils down to how much you can spend, I think I'll take up golf. Now that is boring! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Now that is boring! 'scuse me. Bit more respect for mods please. [size=1]unless they like golf.....[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.shilton Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Out of curiosity,would your opinion change radically if this didn't happen? As you appear to have missed the RD interview,I can tell you that it doesn't appear to be a likelihood. I like to be seen on this forum as someone who can be relied upon to provide reliable facts and hope that I encourage those with an open mind to think for themselves based on such facts (I usually say where they're to be found,thus putting my credibility on the line.In spite of the fact that several others are known to have access to the accounts and that it would be fair to say that they tend to be pro board,I don't remember my figures having been challenged). I also store in the memory banks any comments of a financial nature that can't be immediately tested (due to delay in published accounts) and then test them when the accounts come out.I didn't see the AA/AP interview, that I recently linked,when it was first published as I didn't have internet access at the time.Ironically,a pro board poster referred me back to it on the DET forum,otherwise I may never have seen it.It was the first thing that defined my attitude to future club statements,as I immediately saw 3 questionable things. Firstly,I wondered why things were backdated to Jan 1st,when the owners took over on Jan 25th -why did they need this little period to supplement 'investments'?. Secondly,I immediately recognised that the repayment of £10.4m Five Arrows loan represented a reduction in debt of this amount,so why (having earlier boasted of a £6m reduction) was the further reduction of £10m (as indicated by Pearson) required to get the debt down to £15m (from £31m).? The 3rd one is my continuing test for everyone-I've posted this link several times over the past couple of years and nobody ever seemed to have noticed something a little odd. I think fans are often mesmerised by the hype,rather than actually analysing what's being said. Apologies for veering off topic. Fans are mesmerised by the hype- unfortunately that is part of what being a fan is. That said I appreciate your insight into the financial side of things ramblur as my understanding of these things is abysmal. Where is the link to which you refer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.shilton Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 'scuse me. Bit more respect for mods please. [size=1]unless they like golf.....[/size] Smacking an object with a stick? At least the Hispanics have it right- piñata's have treats within Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Fans are mesmerised by the hype- unfortunately that is part of what being a fan is. That said I appreciate your insight into the financial side of things ramblur as my understanding of these things is abysmal. Where is the link to which you refer? [url=http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/MORTGAGE-MORTGAGE-OWE-YEAR/story-11578130-detail/story.htmlhttp://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/MORTGAGE-MORTGAGE-OWE-YEAR/story-11578130-detail/story.html]http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/MORTGAGE-MORTGAGE-OWE-YEAR/story-11578130-detail/story.htmlhttp://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/MORTGAGE-MORTGAGE-OWE-YEAR/story-11578130-detail/story.html This release was made at a time when we didn't have the benefit of published accounts (a point prophetically made by Gadsby).If we had then we would have known that the owners introduced no capital into the club in the year ended 30June 08,that they still owed former directors money as at this date,as part of their purchase of the club,and that the new owners borrowed £9m+ in 08/09,the legal charge having been registered at Companies House before the date of the press release.The accounts would also show that nearly £8m of cash was carried over from 07/08 into 08/09 and that the overdraft in 07/08 had been slashed by millions. The £2.5m over budget wages that Pearson remarked on had nothing to do with the LOG as the new administration took on board 19 players that I could think of,and therefore somewhere along the scale of 0-19 would have been the acceptable position.Any overspend was cemented by contracts over 1 year,as I doubt the wages of loanees would have been £2.5m (in any event some came in after he spoke).Our current predicament dates back to this shambles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Ramblur Have you got a link to where Glick says there's no money to spend this summer? In terms of changing my mind, I'm not as pro-board as you may think. I can see what they've done in terms of sitting costs at necessary but only if they invest in fees when we have the wage bill under control. I may appear pro NC, Glick and the owners in comparison to other posters who seem to get off on throwing as much mud at the situation in the hope that it sticks. I just try to question the wild and dubious claims and comments. I still think NC has done a reasonable job, Glick has generally done a good job(in the remit he has been given) and agree that many of the problems are from the Pearson/Jewell era. It's the owners I am disappointed in. If they don't turn the wage subsidy into a fee subsidy this summer then we are effectively rudderless. However it's hard to direct our ire at the owners as they aren't the public face of the club. If they don't invest this summer then how do we protest against an invisible foe, rather than take our frustrations out on NC and Glick, which I suspect is what the owners want us to do. For the record Ramblur, without going into detail, how much have the owners invested so far, in total, including buying the club and subsidies/investment since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Ramblur Have you got a link to where Glick says there's no money to spend this summer? In terms of changing my mind, I'm not as pro-board as you may think. I can see what they've done in terms of sitting costs at necessary but only if they invest in fees when we have the wage bill under control. I may appear pro NC, Glick and the owners in comparison to other posters who seem to get off on throwing as much mud at the situation in the hope that it sticks. I just try to question the wild and dubious claims and comments. I still think NC has done a reasonable job, Glick has generally done a good job(in the remit he has been given) and agree that many of the problems are from the Pearson/Jewell era. It's the owners I am disappointed in. If they don't turn the wage subsidy into a fee subsidy this summer then we are effectively rudderless. However it's hard to direct our ire at the owners as they aren't the public face of the club. If they don't invest this summer then how do we protest against an invisible foe, rather than take our frustrations out on NC and Glick, which I suspect is what the owners want us to do. For the record Ramblur, without going into detail, how much have the owners invested so far, in total, including buying the club and subsidies/investment since. I've no link-it was in a RD interview.He didn't say there was no money to spend,just gave the impression that we would be looking in the bargain basement -Sharpe type fees and wages ruled out. The last accounts showed that investment stood at £30.3m and directors' report indicated a further £5.6m or £6.6m,depending on which accounts you read.I suspect the former to represent capital investment (believe the extra £1m related to AP pay off),but will calculate on higher figure,thus £36.9m is latest available (including £16m purchase). Issue is further complicated by a £1.7m GSE loan,which some may see as investment.It appears likely this may have been repaid in 10/11,which would really make it little more than a short term loan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Glick was on Radio Derby before the Southampton game and said the board were "progressing the squad" and the priority was a striker but he also said we were still over budget on wages. I think this means 1 in and maybe some more out? He also ruled out Billy Sharp type fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Thanks for that. So it would take at least £30m to buy them out. I won the Euro Millions yesterday, but only £2.70, so I guess it's up to someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Glick was on Radio Derby before the Southampton game and said the board were "progressing the squad" and the priority was a striker but he also said we were still over budget on wages. I think this means 1 in and maybe some more out? Only over budget for this year,Andy.Partial savings (via outgoing loans) will turn into full year savings next season on several players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Glick was on Radio Derby before the Southampton game and said the board were "progressing the squad" and the priority was a striker but he also said we were still over budget on wages. I think this means 1 in and maybe some more out? He also ruled out Billy Sharp type fees. Interesting that he should be so painfully honest at season ticket renewal time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 But will the budget be reduced further as more season ticket holders drift away due to the lack of investment after having such investment promised previously! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Thanks for that. So it would take at least £30m to buy them out. I won the Euro Millions yesterday, but only £2.70, so I guess it's up to someone else. They turned down a (reported) fair bit more than that from PG some time ago. Exchange rates come into it as well with foreign investors,and I think that it was £1=$2 on takeover -rate has swung against them since (but ironically makes further investment 'cheaper' ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 But will the budget be reduced further as more season ticket holders drift away due to the lack of investment after having such investment promised previously! Think the 10% increase will probably compensate income wise (but will be interesting to see when figures come out). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Only over budget for this year,Andy.Partial savings (via outgoing loans) will turn into full year savings next season on several players. That's how I understand it. NC should be able to wheel and deal with a stable wage budget but with a limited transfer budget. So we will bumble along in mid table unless NC finds a top CF for less than £1m and wages less than £8k a week or Hughes or Bennett make further progress and attract a big fee from a big Prem club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Interesting that he should be so painfully honest at season ticket renewal time. I welcome the honesty,but wonder if he had much choice after this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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