ramblur Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I recollect somewhat similarly ramblur. I am sure at the time there was a bit of a hoo-ha that the Jan signings had promotion bonuses that were not in the existing players contracts that caused a few ructions, but I think the existing players got similar clauses eventually Thanks dabber,at least you remember it was an issue.If existing players had no bonuses written in,it would have cost rather a lot to insert them! I think the issue was that the new players were to receive the same bonus as the existing ones,when they would have done rather less work to achieve the goal. A lot of our early results owed as much to team spirit as anything else.When the new players arrived,it was noticeable that both results and spirits dropped off.If there had been resent in the camp over bonuses,this would have been understandable.So how could the problem be resolved? You could hardly up the bonuses of existing players to give an appropriate differential -too costly,and you couldn't force the newcomers to accept less.My guess would be that they volunteered to accept a cut.Nobody likes to work in a hostile environment,and they may have realised that if nothing changed,then none of them would receive any bonus (or the chance to play in the Prem,with the wages uplift that would bring).It was noticeable that they only just pulled out of the nosedive in time,and team spirit returned.If they accepted a cut,contracts may have been revised accordingly. Pure conjecture on my part ,I've no inside track on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Have no problem with promotion bonuses but wage increases for players who had been at the club for 6 months is a bit excessive. If you'd worked at a company for 6 months and gained a promotion,wouldn't you expect a pay rise? My guess is that the whole first team squad had increases built into existing contracts to cover the possibility of promotion.They must have got some kind of rise,otherwise it's hard to see where the Prem £23m came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 ....and if (more likely) not true,what then? Why would the last ones in get renegotiated contracts and the rest of the squad not? I don't remember hearing of a raft of renegotiated contracts. I think curb may be getting mixed up with the unrest that was caused over promotion bonuses,whereby the new arrivals were given the same bonus as those who'd grafted away to get us into a favourable position.Now that was crass,but I don't know if it was ever established whether it was the manager or board at fault. No, I remember a lot (or all) the squad had their wages renegotiated, I mentioned Fagan and Pearson just to point out we were giving pay rises to **** players, although at the time I thought Pearson was one player in our squad capable of making the step up (how wrong was I?). I didn't save any links, it's not something I'd normally do, I'm just going on memory, and it wasn't the bonus issue, I remember that as seperate. If you think about it we MUST have upped the wages of the majority of the squad, either that or we signed Bob Malcolm on a fortune!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 No, I remember a lot (or all) the squad had their wages renegotiated, I mentioned Fagan and Pearson just to point out we were giving pay rises to **** players, although at the time I thought Pearson was one player in our squad capable of making the step up (how wrong was I?). I didn't save any links, it's not something I'd normally do, I'm just going on memory, and it wasn't the bonus issue, I remember that as seperate. If you think about it we MUST have upped the wages of the majority of the squad, either that or we signed Bob Malcolm on a fortune!!! That's ok then-thought for a minute you were suggesting it was just those 2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 That's ok then-thought for a minute you were suggesting it was just those 2! so did i. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notts_ram Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Stupid question, of course the Yanks want promotion, they just want to do it by not spending a penny of their own money and by replacing overpaid, mediocre players with mediocre players on lower wages, good luck 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayram Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Stupid question, of course the Yanks want promotion, they just want to do it by not spending a penny of their own money and by replacing overpaid, mediocre players with mediocre players on lower wages, good luck 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> I just want to know what the boards excuse is going to be as to why, after we have got rid of so many players this window, we've only brought in one short term loan signing. I thought the promise was that if Nigel got rid of enough players we'd have money to actually sign some better ones, the sort that you have to pay more than tuppence for in transfer fees and wages and who actually add something worth having to the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I just want to know what the boards excuse is going to be as to why, after we have got rid of so many players this window, we've only brought in one short term loan signing. I thought the promise was that if Nigel got rid of enough players we'd have money to actually sign some better ones, the sort that you have to pay more than tuppence for in transfer fees and wages and who actually add something worth having to the squad. The problem is, we're still paying some of the wages of Pearson, Bywater, Leacock, Croft etc. until the end of the season when their contracts are up. Effectively we've paid the majority of their wages till the summer to get rid of them. I would say that there is no more money in the wage bill kitty until the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I just want to know what the boards excuse is going to be as to why, after we have got rid of so many players this window, we've only brought in one short term loan signing. I thought the promise was that if Nigel got rid of enough players we'd have money to actually sign some better ones, the sort that you have to pay more than tuppence for in transfer fees and wages and who actually add something worth having to the squad. Because by not signing anyone in January, it will allow the club to make lavish promises of loads of players coming in in the summer. Those promises coming right about season ticket renewal time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Ram Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Maybe Nigel has been advised that anything he saves now can be added to his transfer kitty, unless you have inside knowledge of boardroom discussions then it's all pure guesswork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Maybe Nigel has been advised that anything he saves now can be added to his transfer kitty, unless you have inside knowledge of boardroom discussions then it's all pure guesswork. Takes me back to where it all started,Donny,when AP was questioned about the second chute payment.Anticipating being probed about how much would be available for team strengthening,he chuckled and said most would go on clearing debt.He did however promise "a transfer budget + trading".Following the departures of Tito,Mears and Nyatanga,fans took notice of the incomings,on disclosed fees, of Barker,Moxey etc and started scratching their heads (without the need of access to boardroom discussions). Of course a patch was applied to this particular problem with the advent of the, almost universal, undisclosed fees thereafter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Because by not signing anyone in January, it will allow the club to make lavish promises of loads of players coming in in the summer. Those promises coming right about season ticket renewal time. Makes sense. And maybe budget were made believing at least one of those high earners would've left last summer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Makes sense. And maybe budget were made believing at least one of those high earners would've left last summer? I was being tongue in cheek about the season ticket line. In truth I don't see the point in bringing anyone in at the moment unless we stumble across an amazing deal - Jan tends to be a sellers market - and unless we're making a big push for promotion, which I don't think we are, there seems little sense other than maybe getting some loan cover in. I'm pretty pleased with the amount of players the club is getting rid of. Having cleared the decks now, hopefully Nigel will be brilliantly placed to pursue his targets as soon as the season finishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I was being tongue in cheek about the season ticket line. In truth I don't see the point in bringing anyone in at the moment unless we stumble across an amazing deal - Jan tends to be a sellers market - and unless we're making a big push for promotion, which I don't think we are, there seems little sense other than maybe getting some loan cover in. I'm pretty pleased with the amount of players the club is getting rid of. Having cleared the decks now, hopefully Nigel will be brilliantly placed to pursue his targets as soon as the season finishes. But we are only 2 points off the play offs, so surely it would make sense to bring someone in, not the other way round ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 But we are only 2 points off the play offs, so surely it would make sense to bring someone in, not the other way round ? We are only 2 points of the play-offs but a million miles off being able to field a competitive side in the Prem. The difference between this and Silly's side is that as the players get more experience and have a few key signings added over the next period of time they may eventually be able to make the step-up and compete. Promotion this season could be another disaster, a finish in the 7th-10th positions would be good, add 3-4 decent signings in the summer and we could have a chance of A- promotion next season, and B- being able to stay up once we get there once a further pool of new signings are added. As we are on track for the 7-10th finish or thereabouts there is no need to make the signings now unless one of the players Clough would target in the summer becomes available now at the right price. Not fast enough for some but look forward to the end of next season would you rather us be relegated with another low Premier points total or going up as Championship champions or runners up and having a realistic chance of staying up the following year? Clough was always going to be a slow burn, nothing has changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Ram Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Stupid question, of course the Yanks want promotion, they just want to do it by not spending a penny of their own money and by replacing overpaid, mediocre players with mediocre players on lower wages, good luck 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> I think this is called value for money, why pay an excessive amount for under achievers when you can pay less and get seemingly better results. When you look at the keeper, is Frankie better than Bywater? When you look at the centre backs are they better? Would you have Brayford or Conolly? Moxey or Roberts? Bailey and Bryson or Savage and AN other? The only area wher I believe we haven't yet got the quality is up front. We have a few young lads making the step up to the first team and one or two others that look capable of following their lead over the next season or two. All in all, I honestly believe things look far more promising than they have for a while. Add in the massive reduction in debt that has happened, plus paying silly wages out and we have a well run club, one of the half a dozen that are FFP compliant in the top two leagues as things stand. Interesting times lay ahead which I believe will be good times for the Rams. Keep the faith and get behing the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 We are only 2 points of the play-offs but a million miles off being able to field a competitive side in the Prem. The difference between this and Silly's side is that as the players get more experience and have a few key signings added over the next period of time they may eventually be able to make the step-up and compete. Promotion this season could be another disaster, a finish in the 7th-10th positions would be good, add 3-4 decent signings in the summer and we could have a chance of A- promotion next season, and B- being able to stay up once we get there once a further pool of new signings are added. As we are on track for the 7-10th finish or thereabouts there is no need to make the signings now unless one of the players Clough would target in the summer becomes available now at the right price. Not fast enough for some but look forward to the end of next season would you rather us be relegated with another low Premier points total or going up as Championship champions or runners up and having a realistic chance of staying up the following year? Clough was always going to be a slow burn, nothing has changed. I would take the promotion now, the lowest points season will never be beaten, and I look at how the promoted clubs are doing this season and in previous years to know that anything is possible. What you are saying is actually saying that we dont want promotion, but I would guess that NC would bite your hand off if it was offered to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I would do too!!! Though prices go up drastically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I would take the promotion now, the lowest points season will never be beaten, and I look at how the promoted clubs are doing this season and in previous years to know that anything is possible. What you are saying is actually saying that we dont want promotion, but I would guess that NC would bite your hand off if it was offered to him. I would take promotion too. I'm sure everyone would. But there's no point going up if you can't compete. The team currently would struggle without at least four new, Prem standard players and they may or may not ever materialise. Of course I would take it if it came along, but I'd rather go up confident that the team would be able to compete without a major overhaul, and if we buy well in the summer that's what I would expect to go for next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I would do too!!! Though prices go up drastically That's one of my greatest worries about going up. At the moment I can afford to go with my lad cos he's free. On promotion I'm sure my ticket would go up and I'd bet they wouldn't dish out free ones for the kids, so that would be that. Given the choice, gimme the Championship!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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