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[SSD]

I can just see this forum when Cywka gets sold and he starts putting on great performances.......BOOOOOO CAN'T BELIEVE WE SOLD HIM TO A RIVAL, I KNEW HE HAD POTENTIAL ALL ALONG (even though these people said just now he's useless and lazy etc) 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

[p.shilton]

So you wouldn't have moved to one of Brtitains premier clubs if they came in for you when you were playing for a tin pot championship club with a poor squad and no ambition!

Only a fool would turned the move down.

I say thanks for the memories Kris. You did us proud.

Sorry, I didn't mean to drag up the whole Commons debate again as it has been done to death. The only point I will make is that you say "one of Britain's Premier clubs". Is that one of the top 30 clubs because I don't see them competing in the latter stages of European competition?- one of the richest maybe but they would be nowhere after a season in the Prem. Money talks, but thankfully decent football speaks a little louder to many of the bit part players in the Prem who could have taken the easy life and the big wages of ***** football North of the border.

[mcsilks]

Sorry, I didn't mean to drag up the whole Commons debate again as it has been done to death. The only point I will make is that you say "one of Britain's Premier clubs". Is that one of the top 30 clubs because I don't see them competing in the latter stages of European competition?- one of the richest maybe but they would be nowhere after a season in the Prem. Money talks, but thankfully decent football speaks a little louder to many of the bit part players in the Prem who could have taken the easy life and the big wages of ***** football North of the border.

The fact they are competing in Europe at all season after season has got to be an appeal.

Whatever we think about Scottish football (and I happen to think the standard is truly awful), it was a very attractive move for Commons. Look at the coverage the player has had since moving to Glasgow. His profile has been significantly raised and thus his chances of playing international football have increased.

I don't blame players using and abusing clubs to make as much money as they can. If sponsors, TV stations and fans alike are stupid enough to throw silly money at clubs then the players are entitled to grab as bigger piece of that pie as they can.

Gone are the days of honour. The most annoying sight in football bar none is where the players score a goal and run around the ground kissing the badge on their shirt. It makes me sick.

[blackNwhites]

Kris Commons career is finished in Celtic. He had a fantastic start, but this season he's now a reserve player and looks as if he will for the rest of the season. Him and Lennon don't get along.

On 2 October in the second half of Celtic's 2-0 defeat against Hearts Commons was issued with a straight red card for a dangerous studs-up tackle. Celtic manager commented after the match "He has let himself down and he's let us down, so he will be dealt with accordingly in house. One player lost his discipline and let us down badly. He has come in and held his hand up but it's too late

Lets get him back on't cheap, waaaay.

[Alph]

I'd have him back. But that boy is too happy to collect his wage slip. I bet he's not looked forward to playing since he was a boy.

On Cywka, no, perhaps he doesn't put in the tireless shift of B.Davies..... but the romantic idea that 100% effort is all you can ask for is false. Or we'd all be picked to play for Derby. I know Nigel has to set examples and keep balance in the team. Effort does need to be encouraged and rewarded.... but Cywka can do things B.Davies and Croft and Green can't on the right side of midfield. For that he should be on the bench atleast.

But he'll be a decent player i think for someone next season. He could be very good if he showed a bit more brains. I agree with Nigel.... he's not too bright. Love the little fella though. Certainly exciting if nowt else.

[jagerbob]

commons went because he is a lazy, greedy, selfish pr*ck- nothing to do with the clubs ambition and all to do with his wallet and fat arse

i disagree. Weeks or perhaps a month or so before he was very happy here and wanted to stay.

its only when he realised how **** we were as a team that he suddenly stopped performing himself.

if derby had invested earlier and got a better team together, and if we had offered him what he wanted earlier than i really do think he would have stayed.

[Ambitious]

We could perhaps get Commons back on loan? Ward and Commons on either side would be attractive, I'm sure Commons would come back if the money was right (as bad as that sounds) he had/has a lot of good things to say about the club.

[GboroRam]

On Cywka, no, perhaps he doesn't put in the tireless shift of B.Davies..... but the romantic idea that 100% effort is all you can ask for is false.

I wouldn't say it's all you can ask. But I would say it's the minimum I'd expect. Anyone can give 100% - why would anyone not?

[p.shilton]

i disagree. Weeks or perhaps a month or so before he was very happy here and wanted to stay.

its only when he realised how **** we were as a team that he suddenly stopped performing himself.

if derby had invested earlier and got a better team together, and if we had offered him what he wanted earlier than i really do think he would have stayed.

The point I was making is that he didn't move for football reasons, if he was truly happy here he would have stayed and fought for us as he said he would, we offered what he wanted, he didn't sign- then he went to a club that will never win anything apart from the Scottish Prem (big deal) purely becasue he could get loads of cash

[Alph]

I wouldn't say it's all you can ask. But I would say it's the minimum I'd expect. Anyone can give 100% - why would anyone not?

I just think of Commons, when he gave 70% he was our best player or near enough. You had Savage and Green and Pearson who would put their bodies through a lot more than Commons, but they were not as good at improving Derby as Commons was.

It's not right that not everyone gives 100%. But it's just the way it is. I know what your saying btw, i just accept 70% if it gives more quality to the team than a workhorse.

It's not right though i agree. But it's easier for Nigel to get Cywka/Commons types to work harder than to get B.Davies/Croft types to create something out of nothing.

It really is wrong. But effort is overrated. In any job. You can put 100% effort into plastering your lounge, but i bet it'll look better if a Plasterer does it when he can't be arsed.

Like me with cooking, i put 100% in everytime. I'm just rubbish. Applaud my effort if you wish, but you ain't going to get much joy out my food!

[Bris Vegas]

The point I was making is that he didn't move for football reasons, if he was truly happy here he would have stayed and fought for us as he said he would, we offered what he wanted, he didn't sign- then he went to a club that will never win anything apart from the Scottish Prem (big deal) purely becasue he could get loads of cash

You ever thought he went to improve his life? It's not all about football for some people, someone (I can't remember who) famously turned down Sunderland for the lack of shopping centres.. Football is a job, nothing more.. You get paid to go to work, but outside of work is your priority, your friends and family..

Commons improved his life both on an off the field by going to Celtic.. His job enables him to be paid alot more, which therefore can buy him better things and support his family more.. As for the football side, Celtic despite only being in the Europa League, had days out against Atletico Madrid, Udinese and Rennes.. These are fantastic destinations that all NPC players would dream of, Derby will never play at grounds like these, they wouldn't even accept us for pre-season friendlies, the most luxurious we can hope for is an away game at someone like Stoke or Villa. Not to mention boosting his Scottish chances..

Some people are deluded or just damn right stupid if they honestly think someone wouldn't improve their lifestyle and that of their family just to please a few fans of a midtable NPC side.

[GboroRam]

I just think of Commons, when he gave 70% he was our best player or near enough. You had Savage and Green and Pearson who would put their bodies through a lot more than Commons, but they were not as good at improving Derby as Commons was.

It's not right that not everyone gives 100%. But it's just the way it is. I know what your saying btw, i just accept 70% if it gives more quality to the team than a workhorse.

It's not right though i agree. But it's easier for Nigel to get Cywka/Commons types to work harder than to get B.Davies/Croft types to create something out of nothing.

It really is wrong. But effort is overrated. In any job. You can put 100% effort into plastering your lounge, but i bet it'll look better if a Plasterer does it when he can't be arsed.

Like me with cooking, i put 100% in everytime. I'm just rubbish. Applaud my effort if you wish, but you ain't going to get much joy out my food!

I think Clough appreciates that he's going to have to rely on a lot of hard work from the players as his disposal. He hasn't got a squad that can get consistent results if the majority of put in 50%, 60% or 70%. I suspect that's why the likes of Cywka aren't getting a shout at the minute - it's about getting the work ethic out of 11 (for the main part) workhorses. By supporting those players who put the effort in over those who carry natural skill but display a can't be arsed attitude, he's promoting the idea that everyone needs to put in a shift every training session and every matchday.

I'm not a fan of this approach (I'd rather see the skill players than not) but I can understand why he might feel that there's not the capacity to carry players who don't show willing - particularly if that attitude starts to spread to others.

Complete speculation by the way. No idea why he picks the players he does, could be lack of fashion sense for all I know.

[Alph]

I think Clough appreciates that he's going to have to rely on a lot of hard work from the players as his disposal. He hasn't got a squad that can get consistent results if the majority of put in 50%, 60% or 70%. I suspect that's why the likes of Cywka aren't getting a shout at the minute - it's about getting the work ethic out of 11 (for the main part) workhorses. By supporting those players who put the effort in over those who carry natural skill but display a can't be arsed attitude, he's promoting the idea that everyone needs to put in a shift every training session and every matchday.

I'm not a fan of this approach (I'd rather see the skill players than not) but I can understand why he might feel that there's not the capacity to carry players who don't show willing - particularly if that attitude starts to spread to others.

Complete speculation by the way. No idea why he picks the players he does, could be lack of fashion sense for all I know.

I agree. I think that's what Nigel is doing too.

I try really hard to agree with it all too. But then i see B.Davies (who i hate to keep criticising because he does add something to the squad) go up against a defender and...... well..... stand still for 5 seconds before hitting the ball against him.

No, i think Nigel is doing the right thing in trying to drive in hard work into the players, but he's missing a trick if he persists with it forever. A lot of flair players seem so arrogant (in a good way) and confident in their ability they don't see it as their role to run around doing dirty work.

I hate the Snodgrass, but he's a bit like Ward. Just enough 'magic' to elevate him above the hardworkers. Wouldn't mind Ward on the left and that moaning whinging ugly Scotsman on the right. Nasty set peices too!

[p.shilton]

You ever thought he went to improve his life? It's not all about football for some people, someone (I can't remember who) famously turned down Sunderland for the lack of shopping centres.. Football is a job, nothing more.. You get paid to go to work, but outside of work is your priority, your friends and family..

Commons improved his life both on an off the field by going to Celtic.. His job enables him to be paid alot more, which therefore can buy him better things and support his family more.. As for the football side, Celtic despite only being in the Europa League, had days out against Atletico Madrid, Udinese and Rennes.. These are fantastic destinations that all NPC players would dream of, Derby will never play at grounds like these, they wouldn't even accept us for pre-season friendlies, the most luxurious we can hope for is an away game at someone like Stoke or Villa. Not to mention boosting his Scottish chances..

Some people are deluded or just damn right stupid if they honestly think someone wouldn't improve their lifestyle and that of their family just to please a few fans of a midtable NPC side.

e could have gone to a lower prem side but took the easy way and the big money. You say he went to improve his life, I doubt he was struggling for cash here. as for Udinese- their ground sounds like a palace...

[size=3]

Opened in 1976, Friuli has a maximum capacity of 41,652 seats , partly covered, currently limited to a 30,900 capacity. It, like most of Italy’s stadia, is owned by the local council

[/size]

[size=3][/size]

And ......Not so long ago...........

1994–95 Anglo-Italian Cup

[size=3]

Derby’s most recent European campaign came in the 1994–95 season, the last year of McFarland’s management tenure. The club was not part of the 1995–96 competition, which proved to be its last. By this point gates had descended to around 2,000 and the competition was considered more of a distraction than a viable opportunity of European competition for second tier clubs.[/size] Season Competition Round Opposition Score 1994–95 [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Italian_Cup]Anglo-Italian Cup Group B [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/03/Flag_of_Italy.svg/22px-Flag_of_Italy.svg [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associazione_Calcio_Ancona]Ancona 1–2 (a) Group B [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/03/Flag_of_Italy.svg/22px-Flag_of_Italy.svg [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.C._Cesena]Cesena 6–1 (H) Group B [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/03/Flag_of_Italy.svg/22px-Flag_of_Italy.svg [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piacenza_Calcio]Piacenza 1–1 (A) Group B [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/03/Flag_of_Italy.svg/22px-Flag_of_Italy.svg [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udinese_Calcio]Udinese 3–1 (H)

OOh, the dizzy heights of Celtic

[uttoxram75]

The older posters might agree with me....Archie Gemmill would have been a perfect player for Nigel Clough.

He could play as a playmaker. His general passing and distribution was as good as anything at the time, and he could go past defenders with ease. He could score important goals and create them for others. He could also run his ****** off for the team, defend, cover his team mates, close down opponents and be available to take a pass at any time in any position.

I get the feeling that Nige is looking for that type of midfielder rather than an out and out flair player.

Mind you, how much would a young Archie cost nowadays?

[alexxxxx]

i'm worried about who we might lose, especially if a "massive" bid of above £750k comes up for ward or steve davies.

[Derby_Dave]

i'm worried about who we might lose, especially if a "massive" bid of above £750k comes up for ward or steve davies.

In all honesty our owners have hardly sold off the family silver for peanuts have they? Commons aside and there are arguments for and against that particular deal.

[uttoxram75]

We are the same as any other club in regards to hanging on to our better players. If the player is offered a substantially better contract then, yes, he'll go. What other option is there?

sausageer will leave Florist if a prem club doubles his wages, Ward will leave us if Lessta do the same.

Its an occupational hazard of being a football supporter.

I do think that some players will feel loyalty to Nigel for the way he treats them despite some fans believing he has no man management skills.

The stuff he said about Mark O'Brien will enhance his reputation amongst the players.

[Bris Vegas]

e could have gone to a lower prem side but took the easy way and the big money. You say he went to improve his life, I doubt he was struggling for cash here. as for Udinese- their ground sounds like a palace...

Opened in 1976, Friuli has a maximum capacity of 41,652 seats , partly covered, currently limited to a 30,900 capacity. It, like most of Italy’s stadia, is owned by the local council

And ......Not so long ago...........

1994–95 Anglo-Italian Cup

[size=3]Derby’s most recent European campaign came in the 1994–95 season, the last year of McFarland’s management tenure. The club was not part of the 1995–96 competition, which proved to be its last. By this point gates had descended to around 2,000 and the competition was considered more of a distraction than a viable opportunity of European competition for second tier clubs.[/size] Season Competition Round Opposition Score 1994–95 [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Italian_Cup]Anglo-Italian Cup Group B [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/03/Flag_of_Italy.svg/22px-Flag_of_Italy.svg [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associazione_Calcio_Ancona]Ancona 1–2 (a) Group B [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/03/Flag_of_Italy.svg/22px-Flag_of_Italy.svg [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.C._Cesena]Cesena 6–1 (H) Group B [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/03/Flag_of_Italy.svg/22px-Flag_of_Italy.svg [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piacenza_Calcio]Piacenza 1–1 (A) Group B [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/03/Flag_of_Italy.svg/22px-Flag_of_Italy.svg [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udinese_Calcio]Udinese 3–1 (H)

OOh, the dizzy heights of Celtic

Again a lower PL side won't get you a European tour.. I'm not saying Celtic are great shakes, we all know they'd probably go down if they were in the PL.. But what you get at Celtic (Big stadium, passionate fans, European football every year, alot of money, fame, international coverage, selection, trophies) is an easy life and anyone from the NPC would be stupid to turn it down.. Hence Celtic cherry picking the best in Hooper, Ledley, Commons etc...

Celtic are just shamed upon because of who they play everyweek.. Everyone knows that the likes of St. Mirren is your equivalent of Torquay United, but it's such a massive opportunity and no matter how you look at it the propostion of away days out at the likes of Atletico Madrid and Udinese far outweighs a dull away day at Bristol City.

The best way to get recognised is through European football.. Even a poxy average striker like Kenny Miller managed to worm his way into a $50k a week contract in Turkey of the back of a few good performances in the CL.

If I was a footballer, I'd pick Celtic over any NPC club anyday of the week.

[sage]

Imagine all the fried mars bars and fried pizza he can stuff down him in Glasgow too?

Being from Mansfield he would have missed the lack of a glue sniffing scene in Derby.