Manager Phil Brown leaves Preston North End

[Gary Teale]

Brown is terrible, he has a good 8 months when hull went on a run as got up and it carried on for a while in the prem. one good run in 3 jobs shows he is a poor manager to me. When he was derby manager he just kept telling them they had to run more per game and they will get more points, or so the stats said.

[notaseasonticketholder]

prozone! it was all about the prozone

[Bris Vegas]

Phil Brown, Gary Megson, Billy Davies, Nigel Worthington, George Burley, Aidy Boothroyd, Dave Jones, Roberto Di Matteo, Ian Holloway, Steve Coppell, Alan Curbishly, Ian Dowie, Roy Keane and many more all have something in common..

They all have a promotion to the PL

Therefore, until NC has this, he will not be as good a manager as any of the names above mentioned..

He might be better now in this moment, but the same could be said of S.Davies being better than Kevin Hector.. Point is, unless Clough becomes a PL manager or that level, he will never be regarded as better than those above.. Win percentage or not, Phil Browns achievements far outweighs Nigel Cloughs achievements..

And before anyone tries to defy this logic, the same could be said for a 100m sprint.. One athlete could average 10.4 seconds over his career but never break 10 seconds whilst another averages 19.6 seconds but just once gets 9.96.. Who is the faster (better) runner?

Facts are facts, so far Clough hasn't reached Phil Browns potenial therefore PB is the better manager.. Hopefully that will change though..

[mcsilks]

Phil Brown, Gary Megson, Billy Davies, Nigel Worthington, George Burley, Aidy Boothroyd, Dave Jones, Roberto Di Matteo, Ian Holloway, Steve Coppell, Alan Curbishly, Ian Dowie, Roy Keane and many more all have something in common..

They all have a promotion to the PL

Therefore, until NC has this, he will not be as good a manager as any of the names above mentioned..

Facts are facts, so far Clough hasn't reached Phil Browns potenial therefore PB is the better manager.. Hopefully that will change though..

You stating they are better managers is your opinion and most certainly not fact.

Factors have to be taken into account. Football is not a level playing field and many of those managers may have had far more at their disposal than Clough has had.

Clough is the best man for Derby at the present time and IMO, no manager in the land could do a better job than he is doing at the moment.

Why does a thread about Phil Brown become a tool with which to beat Nigel Clough?

[CumbrianRam]

started at post #6.

[Bris Vegas]

You stating they are better managers is your opinion and most certainly not fact.

Factors have to be taken into account. Football is not a level playing field and many of those managers may have had far more at their disposal than Clough has had.

Clough is the best man for Derby at the present time and IMO, no manager in the land could do a better job than he is doing at the moment.

Why does a thread about Phil Brown become a tool with which to beat Nigel Clough?

Don't get me wrong I'd rather have NC than a fair few of those, and I think at this present moment in time NC is better than PB.. But seriously, PB has achieved moreso far in their careers and that is a fact.. Only the blinded, Clough arse licking delusional ****** would think otherwise..

No man could do a better job? Good one.. Clough is better than Mourinho then! Fantastic.

And I'm not beating Clough with a stick, I'm stating facts nothing else.

I wouldn't want Phil Brown anywhere near this club

[mcsilks]

Don't get me wrong I'd rather have NC than a fair few of those, and I think at this present moment in time NC is better than PB.. But seriously, PB has achieved moreso far in their careers and that is a fact.. Only the blinded, Clough arse licking delusional ****** would think otherwise..

No man could do a better job? Good one.. Clough is better than Mourinho then! Fantastic.

And I'm not beating Clough with a stick, I'm stating facts nothing else.

I wouldn't want Phil Brown anywhere near this club

No, you're not stating facts. You're stating your opinion. Your opinion is that PB has done a better job in management than Clough. That is opinion.

Well if a managers stock can rise after a promotion than by the same token it can fall through failure and relegation. Thus, my opinion is open as to who the better manager is. I'll say horses for course and at the present time, Clough is right for DCFC.

If that makes me an "arse licking delusional moron" as you so eloquently put it then so be it.

With regard to Mourinho. Who says he would do a better job with Derby than Clough. He's never had to work under the circumstances that Clough has.

I'm not saying that one is better than another. That canot be proven until they are on a level playing field.

[Bris Vegas]

No, you're not stating facts. You're stating your opinion. Your opinion is that PB has done a better job in management than Clough. That is opinion.

Well if a managers stock can rise after a promotion than by the same token it can fall through failure and relegation. Thus, my opinion is open as to who the better manager is. I'll say horses for course and at the present time, Clough is right for DCFC.

If that makes me an "arse licking delusional moron" as you so eloquently put it then so be it.

With regard to Mourinho. Who says he would do a better job with Derby than Clough. He's never had to work under the circumstances that Clough has.

I'm not saying that one is better than another. That canot be proven until they are on a level playing field.

Mcsilks.. Who do you think has had a better international career? David Beckham or Theo Zagorakis?

The comments about NC and Mourinho were also obvious.. Clutching at straws or what.. Next you'll be saying that Wayne Rooney couldn't do a better job than Theo Robinson becaue Wayne Rooney hasn't had to play with the god awful service that Theo recieves..

There is a reason why NC is at DCFC and Mourinho at Real Madrid..

[BorneoRam]

Phil Brown, Gary Megson, Billy Davies, Nigel Worthington, George Burley, Aidy Boothroyd, Dave Jones, Roberto Di Matteo, Ian Holloway, Steve Coppell, Alan Curbishly, Ian Dowie, Roy Keane and many more all have something in common..

They all have a promotion to the PL

Therefore, until NC has this, he will not be as good a manager as any of the names above mentioned..

He might be better now in this moment, but the same could be said of S.Davies being better than Kevin Hector.. Point is, unless Clough becomes a PL manager or that level, he will never be regarded as better than those above.. Win percentage or not, Phil Browns achievements far outweighs Nigel Cloughs achievements..

And before anyone tries to defy this logic, the same could be said for a 100m sprint.. One athlete could average 10.4 seconds over his career but never break 10 seconds whilst another averages 19.6 seconds but just once gets 9.96.. Who is the faster (better) runner?

Facts are facts, so far Clough hasn't reached Phil Browns potenial therefore PB is the better manager.. Hopefully that will change though..

By that logic you could say that George best was not as good as Stephane Guivarch as Best never went to a World Cup and Guivarch won one - it's not apples and apples as timing and circumstance play a huge part and using one point of measurement to assess a person is flawed, it creates a slanted view - Andy Cole had a better goals ratio at Man Utd that eric Cantona - was he better? of course not because one fact does not tell the story. Phil Brown had a couple of good seasons but apart from that has been an unmitigated disaster (I may be being a bit harsh but he remains the only DCFC manager I genuinely disliked, ahead even of PJ, used to wind me up no end on a Sunday after losing to see him sitting on the couch at the Sky Studios)

Back to the point - yes PB won a promotion and maybe even more impressively kept them up a year but this singular fact does not define who is a good manager and who isn't.

[mcsilks]

Mcsilks.. Who do you think has had a better international career? David Beckham or Theo Zagorakis?

The comments about NC and Mourinho were also obvious.. Clutching at straws or what.. Next you'll be saying that Wayne Rooney couldn't do a better job than Theo Robinson becaue Wayne Rooney hasn't had to play with the god awful service that Theo recieves..

There is a reason why NC is at DCFC and Mourinho at Real Madrid..

David Beckham started at grass roots level as did Theo Zagorakis. Footballers have to work their way up from nothing.

The same cannot be said in football management. Mourinho started his managerial career at Benfica. A footballing giant.

Compare that to Clough who started his career in non-league.

Why am I clutching at straws?

I am simply saying that to say that PB is a better manager than Clough because he has won a promotion is utterly ridiculous. I am also saying that implying this is opinion and not fact as you put it.

Again, as I stated earlier. If a managers stock goes up through promotion then surely you must agree that, that stock will fall through failure.

Indeed using the ridiculous analogy that you used (PB and many others must be better managers because they won a promotion) in another way could imply that Clough is actually a better manager than many of those you stated as he has not experienced the failure ending up in relegation that many others have.

Actually lets go down that route. Clough is a better manager than any other manager in the world who has experienced relegation because he has never experienced that.

Sounds ridiculous doesn't it?

[BorneoRam]

Oh and on the runner logic I would say the 10.4 guy as the other one was clearly on drugs when he did 9.96, and in football you can replace drugs for money...makes a big difference as well

[smiffy]

You stating they are better managers is your opinion and most certainly not fact.

Factors have to be taken into account. Football is not a level playing field and many of those managers may have had far more at their disposal than Clough has had.

Clough is the best man for Derby at the present time and IMO, no manager in the land could do a better job than he is doing at the moment.

Why does a thread about Phil Brown become a tool with which to beat Nigel Clough?

So has Holloway had it better than Clough ?, has Boothroyd had it better than Clough, there are a few more just have a good look, this level playing field excuse is cobbwers, (Thats my Benny Hill impression ).

[Ambitious]

Everyone is entitled to opinions, and Bris isn't saying he would prefer Brown to Clough just stated the obvious that Clough hasn't won promotion to the premiership.

Football management is all about circumstance, even to get a half decent job like Clough did with Burton he had to have been a professional footballer, and that is the case for so many managers in football, Mourinho's first job was at Benfica for christ sake so his never had to prove himself under the constraints like Clough, nor has Clough had to prove himself by going through coaching before management, who knows the best mind in football might be working at Asda or Tesco!

[Ambitious]

So has Holloway had it better than Clough ?, has Boothroyd had it better than Clough, there are a few more just have a good look, this level playing field excuse is cobbwers, (Thats my Benny Hill impression ).

And in fairness to Clough, Holloway had it a damn sight better at Leicester than Clough as ever had it here, and in turn he spunked loads of money on crap players and relegated them to League One, and he spent around 5million for that, plus I don't know how much in wages, I think Howard still picks up 20k+ a week..

He can't hide away from that, but he has his years as Blackpool manager to fall back on!

[BorneoRam]

I know Bris said that he wouldn't prefer Brown, but then anyone who said they would should probably be sent to a secure location. The point he did make though was that until Clough got promotion to the PL the Tango man would/should always be regarded as a better manager than Clough - I disagree (strongly) and think you should be judged over a longer period of time and taking into account a number of factors. Taking a single stat or achievement to define who is better is seriously flawed - history is littered with one season wonders.

On whether any of the others on the list are better than Clough - who knows and quite honestly who cares, the thread was about PB being sacked - On that topic can you ever imagine a worse combo that Risdale and Brown, it would have been interesting to see how that developed.

[smiffy]

Everyone is entitled to opinions, and Bris isn't saying he would prefer Brown to Clough just stated the obvious that Clough hasn't won promotion to the premiership.

Football management is all about circumstance, even to get a half decent job like Clough did with Burton he had to have been a professional footballer, and that is the case for so many managers in football, Mourinho's first job was at Benfica for christ sake so his never had to prove himself under the constraints like Clough, nor has Clough had to prove himself by going through coaching before management, who knows the best mind in football might be working at Asda or Tesco!

Andy Garner worked in Tesco's at Mickleover

[Bris Vegas]

By that logic you could say that George best was not as good as Stephane Guivarch as Best never went to a World Cup and Guivarch won one - it's not apples and apples as timing and circumstance play a huge part and using one point of measurement to assess a person is flawed, it creates a slanted view - Andy Cole had a better goals ratio at Man Utd that eric Cantona - was he better? of course not because one fact does not tell the story. Phil Brown had a couple of good seasons but apart from that has been an unmitigated disaster (I may be being a bit harsh but he remains the only DCFC manager I genuinely disliked, ahead even of PJ, used to wind me up no end on a Sunday after losing to see him sitting on the couch at the Sky Studios)

Back to the point - yes PB won a promotion and maybe even more impressively kept them up a year but this singular fact does not define who is a good manager and who isn't.

Using internatonal footall is the worst for clutching at staws... That is completely different gifted players like Giggs, Berbatov, Best, Poom etc.. Would never have had the chance to play at a world cup..

Phil Browns best achievement (promotion + survival in the PL) far outweighs 1st place in the Conf + 14th in the NPC... PB has achieved more, that's a fact.. Therefore the best of PB > The best of NC = PB better manager.. (it can only change if NC achieves more)

[Bris Vegas]

David Beckham started at grass roots level as did Theo Zagorakis. Footballers have to work their way up from nothing.

The same cannot be said in football management. Mourinho started his managerial career at Benfica. A footballing giant.

Compare that to Clough who started his career in non-league.

Why am I clutching at straws?

I am simply saying that to say that PB is a better manager than Clough because he has won a promotion is utterly ridiculous. I am also saying that implying this is opinion and not fact as you put it.

Again, as I stated earlier. If a managers stock goes up through promotion then surely you must agree that, that stock will fall through failure.

Indeed using the ridiculous analogy that you used (PB and many others must be better managers because they won a promotion) in another way could imply that Clough is actually a better manager than many of those you stated as he has not experienced the failure ending up in relegation that many others have.

Actually lets go down that route. Clough is a better manager than any other manager in the world who has experienced relegation because he has never experienced that.

Sounds ridiculous doesn't it?

You never answered the question about Becks an Theo..

And again, clutching at straws or what.. You've taken NCs best achievement (avoiding relegation to L1) against PBs worst achievement (relegation to L1) as proof. Ridiculous. PBs promotion + survival > NCs 18th position in the conf (did you see what I did then?)

PB has achieved more as a manager than NC therefore if they both retire today PB was the better manager.. That's is a fact. Lap it up.. (And before you clutch at any more straws both have been in management for 7+ years)

[smiffy]

And in fairness to Clough, Holloway had it a damn sight better at Leicester than Clough as ever had it here, and in turn he spunked loads of money on crap players and relegated them to League One, and he spent around 5million for that, plus I don't know how much in wages, I think Howard still picks up 20k+ a week..

He can't hide away from that, but he has his years as Blackpool manager to fall back on!

Mr A, just had a very quick parousal of Holloway's record, and it looks to me that he has a better record than Clough at EVERY league side he has been at, including Leicester.

[Bris Vegas]

Mr A, just had a very quick parousal of Holloway's record, and it looks to me that he has a better record than Clough at EVERY league side he has been at, including Leicester.

His Plymouth side was better than everyone of NCs sides.. But then again he spent millions at Plymouth and it wasn't a level playing field.. He also never had to halve the wage bill.. Therefore this information doesn't count and NC remains the best manager in world football Derby could have had during the past 3 years