How would you feel.....

[trooper]

You had to do it didn't you?!

Mention Leeds as a great example! We were all thinking it you fool! Just no one wanted to say it. Well, you've gone and done it now haven't you. Well all might aswell compliment Media United on their amazing away support.

I love Nicks idea that whether they get 3pts or not, away fans leave here thinking 'flippin heck, i wish we made noise like that, it was horrible!"

But too many people are stuck in their ways at PP. Same seats, same songs, same attitude.

Makes me sick that you look at Stoke City, a club that i didn't like or envy at all 10yrs ago.... and now they are what i want Derby to be. Same with Leeds, horrible club but win, lose or draw, you can't ignore their support. Sure, they're all rubbish spouting tosspots, but two horrible clubs like Stoke and Leeds do a better job of getting behind their team than we do. We just go along, spectate the soccer and feel a bit sorry for ourselves as we get on our players backs.

If the Baseball Ground met Pride Park, i wonder what it'd say. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />

We sit s/e corner and walking to the ground yesterday ( from wilmorton way) I was talking to my 12 year old lad asking him what he thought about pp, he said it looks ok but derby fans don't like to sing much compared to other teams!! As we were walking I just felt empty, the big open space your walking in towards the ground, the horrid big car parks either side of the ground, at bbg it was tight and compact and I remember going as a kid with my dad on night games and the atmosphere we had then men with push along burger carts, when my lad was born I wanted him

To experience the stuff I did following derby!!

Unfortunately,, he never will

God bless the bbg

[BOB BIGGS]

I'm just starting to think if it's all worth it. In 50 years time when i'm old, grey and consigned to an armchair on the half way line in the West Stand, will I look back on these days I spend following Derby around the country, spending stupid money on tickets and travel, giving hours of my spare time to, and think that I spent it wisely? I don't know if it's because we're absolutely abysmal (and have been for pretty much the whole time i've been following us), if it's the fact I resent everything Pride Park has turned out to be (basically a huge advertising space in the middle of nowhere that I drag myself to once every two weeks), or if it's simply that i've never loved the club as much as I used to think I did.

I look around the various forums and people talk of days out to Shrewsbury, Port Vale and Carlisle - not high on many people's lists of "must visit" grounds, yet the stories of those games, the fact that even though they were games that took place 30 years ago, in the 3rd tier of English football, people still remember them and talk of them with such fondness. Will I be able to say the same about the time we took 800 to the Riverside, were charged £30 for the privilage and nothing interesting happened whatsoever- there was no banter, no noise, no feeling of being a million miles from home in a strange land, because everything was nearly identical to that at Pride Park?

People talk so passionately of all those famous nights at the BBG, of the days spent on the Popside carried through the day by the buzz of the match, the noise of the crowd, the fear that you might get battered by some huge lump of an away fan, the smell of sweat, piss, beer and pies. What will I have? That one game against Southampton when we remembered how to support our team stood alone amongst countless mind numbing hours stood in silence, under constant harrassment by stewards, under the gaze of overzealous police waiting to nick you for swearing, or being drunk, wondering how it all came to be so sterile, bland and uninteresting?

Will the days return of supporting our team how I beleive they should be - loud, boisterous, scary, fun, exciting, passionate, colourful, or will the time come when the only fans left are those who sit in silence, politely applaud a goal, leave 10 minutes early to spend £200 in the club shop, before returning home to moan on the internet about how their day out was ruined by some lout who dared say the F word within earshot of their precious 8 year old? Or did such days that I yearn for never really exist and I am chasing an impossible ideal?

I remember when I used to go crazy when we scored, losing all rational thought and control of my limbs - now I just try and go crazy, attempting to remember what it was like when I cared that we'd scored against Watford, attempting to recreate that feeling of excitement and joy, but deep down I know that I don't care as much as I make out. I used to get really down with every defeat, i'd sulk for the entire weekend. If we won i'd skip on air all week, willing the next match to hurry up. Yet now I feel nothing. I drag myself to Pride Park out of habit, in some misplaced belief that this week it'll be good, that this week i'll enjoy myself, that this week my day won't be ruined by the kids reading the players names out in an impossibly squeaky voice or by the goal music or by the announcer...

I'm a bit lost.

Hi Joe

That's comes through with real feeling. If it helps [ and it doesn't..], I was lucky enough to be at all the great games through the 70s, home and away. I saw many of the 80s games too but far less since I moved to the North East nearly 30 years. But you never stop being a fan, even when you're old and grey. I'm much too old to care but I still do. I can't stand much of the negativity on here but I do understand it. I'm not sure that the old days can ever be repeated because of the money side of the business nowadays. It's not a fair fight. That's why [in the main], I stick up for Clough even though I suspect he has been close to going insane at times in the last couple of seasons. It's not a job I'd fancy.

As an aside, but it's relevant to today's society, I've been involved in junior football up here for the last 8 years, going through the motions for the FA badge etc to help run my son's team., I started at u 9 and he now plays u17. Last week, we played the top of the league, They were unbeaten in 13 games. We are 4th. We gave them a lesson in how to play and were 2-0 up with 15 minutes to go when their full back launched a totally unprovoked attack on my son, hitting him repeatedly while he was on the floor. Others joined in and when the game restarted, three of their players were booked for kicking our players whilst pretending to tackle [just like the Ronney kick]. They had lost the plot. The ref said he had never witnessed anything like it in 10 years. Other spectators said it was the most frightening spectacle they had ever witnessed. The opposition did the decent thing after the game by blocking the toilets by stuffing toilet rolls down the pan...

So, there's football 2011 in a flash. How did we get there? Who's at fault? I've no idea. I suspect it won't change because there's no great examples coming from above in the FA etc. That leaves the individual to decide. I suspect you're knackered though mate because if you're a Rams fan, you'll keep coming back for more - it's not an option! 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

[Asanovic]

I hate Pride Park. Like Joe said, it doesn't feel like I'm going to watch the team that I love, it's rapidly becoming something to do on a Saturday.

There have been plenty of good memories at Pride Park - the draw with United when Christie had the goal disallowed, 3-1 down on 89 mins against Sheffield Wednesday and drawing 3-3, the coffee cup, beating United in the cup, beating Newcastle in the Prem, battering Arsenal, Southampton in the play offs - there are lots more.

But I agree with having to go out of town to watch Derby. Getting off the train is only half the mission, to then walk to a sterile industrial park. Lovely.

The atmosphere thing was a problem when we were rubbish in the nineties at BBG, and I think it's just the same here, but it's accentuated because it's a 'new' ground. I remember games at the BBG that were like a funeral, specially when we were getting spanked. Similarly, some of the Premiership days at Pride Park were electric - just like the BBG. My problem isn't with the atmosphere because it's fairly in line with the way it's always been. I just don't like the ground. Where it is, what it represents, some of the people it attracts.

The reason I've become detached from Derby is because I feel people who have supported the club for years are giving second rate treatment. Don't have a season ticket, but can afford £25 for a membership? Don't worry, you'll get priority for your forest ticket. How is that fair, in any way?

My seat even got double booked with someone on the groupon deal for the Southampton game. Bit of a kick in the teeth, that. And in the end, it was me that had to move.

The club has become so obsessed with attracting new supporters, it's starting to forget the ones that pay the players wages and keep it running.

[Hucknall Ram]

I believe the home atmosphere depends a lot on the away fans, we sing more when there there someone to sing at

[-JW-]

I blame therams69, its all his fault. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

[PrivateDerby]

We sit s/e corner and walking to the ground yesterday ( from wilmorton way) I was talking to my 12 year old lad asking him what he thought about pp, he said it looks ok but derby fans don't like to sing much compared to other teams!! As we were walking I just felt empty, the big open space your walking in towards the ground, the horrid big car parks either side of the ground, at bbg it was tight and compact and I remember going as a kid with my dad on night games and the atmosphere we had then men with push along burger carts, when my lad was born I wanted him

To experience the stuff I did following derby!!

Unfortunately,, he never will

God bless the bbg

That's sad mate, at least those of us who were young lads going to games in the 90s will remember what it was like at that time.

He will never know what it was like to run to the shop as fast as you can, just to get a pack of stickers for 25p. Absolutely certain that THIS time you were gonna get Stimac, Van Der Land, Gabbiadini etc. Opening the packet so fast that you ripped the corners, then exploding when you saw a white shirt!

Knowing every single player off by heart, and really believing that you KNEW them! Going to the BBG (towards the end) even Pride Park and being totally amazed with the noise when the players surged forwards, or something happened! Then go home and piss mam off with all the songs you had picked up off Grandad....

It must have been out of this world for those who were young in the glory days!

[MrsRam]

I agree Asanovic - there was some dire games at the BBG and only a couple of ladies toilets and jumping over the stream of pi55 that ran down from the mens in the popside. I didn't ever think that in years to come, I would look back at it fondly. That's what I mean about 'the good old days' - people forget.

Thinking back, I remember the horror I felt when I heard, on the way home from a match in a minubus, about the Bradford fire. How I sat watching the telly, hoping Forest would get a spanking at Hillsborough, then realising that people were actually dying in the stands.

I remember coming out of the stands at Rotherham, down an alleyway and the crush was unbeleivable, I couldn't breathe at one point, I could lift my feet up off the ground and not move. We were tripping up over peoples shoes they had lost and kids were screaming.

Wondering if you were going to get hit by a brick, or some moron was going to give you a good kicking, was ok for some, but not for families and the majority of football fans. So yes, there were some good times but we tend to forget what it was like the majority of the time and as Asanavic says, there has been good times at Pride Park and there will be in the future.

[therams69]

I blame therams69, its all his fault. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

Care to explain??!! LOL!!!

[curb]

I agree Asanovic - there was some dire games at the BBG and only a couple of ladies toilets and jumping over the stream of pi55 that ran down from the mens in the popside. I didn't ever think that in years to come, I would look back at it fondly. That's what I mean about 'the good old days' - people forget.

Thinking back, I remember the horror I felt when I heard, on the way home from a match in a minubus, about the Bradford fire. How I sat watching the telly, hoping Forest would get a spanking at Hillsborough, then realising that people were actually dying in the stands.

I remember coming out of the stands at Rotherham, down an alleyway and the crush was unbeleivable, I couldn't breathe at one point, I could lift my feet up off the ground and not move. We were tripping up over peoples shoes they had lost and kids were screaming.

Wondering if you were going to get hit by a brick, or some moron was going to give you a good kicking, was ok for some, but not for families and the majority of football fans. So yes, there were some good times but we tend to forget what it was like the majority of the time and as Asanavic says, there has been good times at Pride Park and there will be in the future.

That's the only away game my Mrs ever went to, she'd been badgering me for ages because I went to every game and she felt left out, so I took her because it was reasonably close. She didn't realise she'd be in the middle of a thousand drunken youths who went mental when we scored, and as you say the crush as we came out after, left her in floods of tears.

Needless to say she never wanted to go again.

Great result.

[Leeds Ram]

I get what you're saying YR but about the swearing - my point of view is this.

First off, let me say now, I swear. I can curse all day long (when the kids are about, it's under me breath mind) - and no way on earth would I go to a football match and not expect it.

When we go, the kids know to expect it and they do hear it. It's a fact - people swear at matches.They know now to "shut their ears" if you will.

But, the guy who did that yesterday, shocked not just us with kids (of which there were a fair few) but even the older folks and I've not witnessed owt like it before, not even from some pissed up guy in a boozer. He did turn round when challenged and say "are you happy watching this ****", to which I said - we're all dissapointed but you don't see anyone else carrying off like that. In all honesty, even though I couldn't smell owt, he was either pissed, stoned, or both. Totally bizarre.

If he wants to swear, fine, you expect one or two curses...Yes, I swear but the difference is I'm mindful of who hears it. That doesn't make me boring or someone who's wont to complain at the drop of a hat because I don't. It's merely a question of manners. Well, to me it is anyway.

With respect YR, I don't like being told not to take me kids to a match just because I choose not to leave all my manners at the door on the way in. It's sad it has come to a negative viewpoint about it and that behaviour like his is deemed acceptable at a match. I just don't see it.

The behaviour he displayed was just wrong and would have fit right in way back when but it's just not like that anymore is it? Rightly or wrongly, whichever way people choose to look at it, football has become civilised.

I don't like feeling in the wrong because of trying to stop the tripe spewing out of his gob, or when he decided to leather the chair in front of him (which had a child sat on it) but that's ok, because it's at a match and anything goes doesn't it?

I think that's a shame.

I think if someone was really going at it then you have a point, and if he hit a chair in front with someone in it then that isn't right, however I have heard a lot of people complaining about mild swearing when they have kids with them and that gets on my nerves a lot, and like the woman complaining some were standing near the top of the east corner. Football has become too family friendly, it has especially at derby destroyed the remnants of an atmosphere and made it sterile and something which in my view just doesn't tie in with what football is.

[bearam]

I think if someone was really going at it then you have a point, and if he hit a chair in front with someone in it then that isn't right, however I have heard a lot of people complaining about mild swearing when they have kids with them and that gets on my nerves a lot, and like the woman complaining some were standing near the top of the east corner. Football has become too family friendly, it has especially at derby destroyed the remnants of an atmosphere and made it sterile and something which in my view just doesn't tie in with what football is.

I'll remind you of that in 10 or 15 years when you want to take your own ankle biter to the football 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />

[Leeds Ram]

I'll remind you of that in 10 or 15 years when you want to take your own ankle biter to the football 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />

Well I won't have children when I am older, however it has, I am not advocating hooliganism or crushing but i have heard people complain about mild swearing etc etc when they are in a football ground which does arouse passions. Now LR has a point if it is extreme then fair enough but i have seen people complain when it isn't extreme. Of course the club should cater for everyone, that is why a family stand is there but things have changed and not for the better.

[SillyBilly]

I'm just starting to think if it's all worth it. In 50 years time when i'm old, grey and consigned to an armchair on the half way line in the West Stand, will I look back on these days I spend following Derby around the country, spending stupid money on tickets and travel, giving hours of my spare time to, and think that I spent it wisely? I don't know if it's because we're absolutely abysmal (and have been for pretty much the whole time i've been following us), if it's the fact I resent everything Pride Park has turned out to be (basically a huge advertising space in the middle of nowhere that I drag myself to once every two weeks), or if it's simply that i've never loved the club as much as I used to think I did.

I look around the various forums and people talk of days out to Shrewsbury, Port Vale and Carlisle - not high on many people's lists of "must visit" grounds, yet the stories of those games, the fact that even though they were games that took place 30 years ago, in the 3rd tier of English football, people still remember them and talk of them with such fondness. Will I be able to say the same about the time we took 800 to the Riverside, were charged £30 for the privilage and nothing interesting happened whatsoever- there was no banter, no noise, no feeling of being a million miles from home in a strange land, because everything was nearly identical to that at Pride Park?

People talk so passionately of all those famous nights at the BBG, of the days spent on the Popside carried through the day by the buzz of the match, the noise of the crowd, the fear that you might get battered by some huge lump of an away fan, the smell of sweat, piss, beer and pies. What will I have? That one game against Southampton when we remembered how to support our team stood alone amongst countless mind numbing hours stood in silence, under constant harrassment by stewards, under the gaze of overzealous police waiting to nick you for swearing, or being drunk, wondering how it all came to be so sterile, bland and uninteresting?

Will the days return of supporting our team how I beleive they should be - loud, boisterous, scary, fun, exciting, passionate, colourful, or will the time come when the only fans left are those who sit in silence, politely applaud a goal, leave 10 minutes early to spend £200 in the club shop, before returning home to moan on the internet about how their day out was ruined by some lout who dared say the F word within earshot of their precious 8 year old? Or did such days that I yearn for never really exist and I am chasing an impossible ideal?

I remember when I used to go crazy when we scored, losing all rational thought and control of my limbs - now I just try and go crazy, attempting to remember what it was like when I cared that we'd scored against Watford, attempting to recreate that feeling of excitement and joy, but deep down I know that I don't care as much as I make out. I used to get really down with every defeat, i'd sulk for the entire weekend. If we won i'd skip on air all week, willing the next match to hurry up. Yet now I feel nothing. I drag myself to Pride Park out of habit, in some misplaced belief that this week it'll be good, that this week i'll enjoy myself, that this week my day won't be ruined by the kids reading the players names out in an impossibly squeaky voice or by the goal music or by the announcer...

I'm a bit lost.

I found myself agreeing with all of that Joe. Excellent post.

My position: This will be my last season ticket for the forseeable. I don't even bother driving down to midweek games now, can't be arsed. I used to follow Derby home and away, I go to about 5 away games a season now and will probably cut that back further. As of next season I'll pick and choose.

I hate everything about the modern game. Fat balding blokes wearing the latest replica shirt, scrambling infront of their wife and 3 kids to get Nathan Tyson's signature. Kids playing on gameboys, half time- out comes the coffee flask and bourbon biscuits. Scowling at the naughty man who seems to be inebriated. Players coming out of the tunnel to Mcfly. Virgins in Hi-vis jackets. The clipboard of the health and safety manager- (suspected virgin too). The secret police (the PC brigade). Away days sat sandwiched between a piss-stained elder and a crying toddler. Goal celebration music. Substituion sponsored by Vagisil. Players being an advert for a failed education system. "At the end of the day" featuring in every single player interview since 1996. I could go on and on...

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Unreserved seating would be a start.

I would have a section of say, 3,000 put aside for unreserved seating. You could buy a season ticket if you wish but would not be guaranteed an exact seat - first come first served.

Whether its in the North, East or SE corner/South is not necessarily important.

The big difference would be if a group of friends wanted to attend and sit together they could do it just by buying tickets for this area.

It would encourage the occasional fan as he would be able to go with mates without having to sit with strangers.

I would also make it over 16's only.

Out of the 3,000 seats possibly make it so only 2,000 can be ST's ?

Don't know really, just thinking aloud now!

No doubt this is the answer. Unreserved seating would make a great deal of sense.

Just to say also don't forget that in the era just before Brian Clough arrived Derby were getting about 14,000 at the BBG for an average game. The club were going nowhere and the atmosphere wasn't that great. Cloughy came along, was stupendously successful and with that changed the whole expectation and mentality of Derby fans. The youngsters of the Cloughy days are now 50 & 60 year old men. The younger generation today naturally need success to inspire them. If Derby start to do well, win games, climb the table, excite during games with attack after attack the support will be there. At the moment it's a bit boring like the early sixties.

[curb]

No doubt this is the answer. Unreserved seating would make a great deal of sense.

Just to say also don't forget that in the era just before Brian Clough arrived Derby were getting about 14,000 at the BBG for an average game. The club were going nowhere and the atmosphere wasn't that great. Cloughy came along, was stupendously successful and with that changed the whole expectation and mentality of Derby fans. The youngsters of the Cloughy days are now 50 & 60 year old men. The younger generation today naturally need success to inspire them. If Derby start to do well, win games, climb the table, excite during games with attack after attack the support will be there. At the moment it's a bit boring like the early sixties.

49 if ya don't mind.

[uttoxram75]

49 if ya don't mind.

bloody kids.....

(51 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wacko:' /> )

[WorksopRam]

I'd live unreserved seating around South and SE. would be nice to change it up every game.

[Alph]

Joetheram, I'm not going to quote your post because it was a bit long to keep quoting but just want to say I really relate to it. Brilliant post mate!

I still sulk for a weekend when we lose, I still want us to have a game asap when we win. But apart from that.....

All these old stories don't help lol. Really don't know how these older boys can muster any enthusiasm for football at all having experienced proper football romance.

I think a lot of us wish we hated football now. Rubbish game.

[WorksopRam]

I think I'm in love with JoetheRam

[RotherhamRam]

I think if someone was really going at it then you have a point, and if he hit a chair in front with someone in it then that isn't right, however I have heard a lot of people complaining about mild swearing when they have kids with them and that gets on my nerves a lot, and like the woman complaining some were standing near the top of the east corner. Football has become too family friendly, it has especially at derby destroyed the remnants of an atmosphere and made it sterile and something which in my view just doesn't tie in with what football is.

Heyup YR I stand by my rant on the idiot yesterday supported by Ladyram who is a relative of mine where we sit together as he was way OTT. My lad suffers from asperges syndrome (autism spectrum) and was scared of his behaviour. I am an ex-copper and I have policed matches between Wolves and West Brom/Birmingham etc when in the West Midlands Police Force. I am used to swearing and does not bother me as you say mild swearing as I realise that this is human nature and I am no saint when excited but I am aware of my surroundings.

When you have an idiot calling the players "paddy, taffs etc". Cheering when we lose the ball or laughing when we have a goal scored shows that they are just plainly idiots.

However when some one stands up shouting and I mean shouting with such venom that the veins were bulging out his head spit coming out his mouth throwing his arms around hitting chairs with kids sat in them does tend to annoy me. We spoke to someone 15 seats down from us who was absolutely shocked ddisgusted and dismayed with his behaviour. He hit the chair in front on a number of occaisons whilst shouting F****ing, ******g, Bastar*s, C****s Twa* for way over 2 minutes whilst throwing his fists around hitting chairs and when told to just calm down a bit turn on you next to your kids (I thought at one stage he was going to turn on and become physical as we had dared asked him to calm down). My lad after the game was still concerned about the incident. He is 7 and is aware that people swear as he says things like "he just said a naughty word" whilst giggling, yesterday he did not want to stop in the ground and went to the toilet for over 5 minutes and went back up when he saw that they had come down.

That is when behaviour has gone way to far and is not 'midly' swearing. When you have people 15+ seats away complaining about his behaviour is testament of the behaviour and is not welcome at football now a days as this causes problems.

Derby may not be going through good times but I am proud to say it is a family club and not a club like Millwall or Leeds