Interesting stat

[Boycie]

you won't get an answer, he may say that he never inferred that. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />

[Alex W]

Just trying to establish the ground rules, you were the one hung up on whether people had actually been at the game or not.

Yes, a few games we have been negative towards the end, Brum springs to mind and Watford, luckily we managed to hang on and nobody commented because we got the result.

I think in the few games with the exceptoin of Pompey (obviously) we've been giving the ball away too much and been on the back foot for most of the game, when you're chasing the game you tire more and that's when you start seeing more goals given away at the end of games.

I was in Bris' case yes. And the only reason for that is that he posted his thread immediately after the game, and there were no streams available (or atleast none that were accessible anyway).

So unless he had access to a stream that no-one else could get their hands on, or was actually there in person, i'm unsure as to how he came to his conclusion. Which is what sageisback is trying to point out.

I'm not so ignorant that I think you have to be at a game to have a view on it, but you do need to have seen/heard enough reports on it to have an idea.

And I would agree we're giving the ball away too much recently, but that comes with so many players being out and people being out of position. With Brayford back in defence we'll be able to control the ball in defence more and able to play out, rather than the stand ins and being given the same instructions as O'Brien to just boot it clear. Bennet can't hold the ball up that much (not going to blame him for that given his age) and Robinson is more of a stretcher of defences than someone to hold the ball up.

With a few people back i'm sure we'll be keeping the ball a little better, Brayford being a main part of that.

[curb]

Then again I never said I agreed with Bris on the negativity point.

I was saying that it is a very bad/worrying statistic and especially because of the way we have been playing lately, and that people shouldn't be running down Bris's opinion because he didn't attend the game (especially those who didn't attend themselves), there are enough ways of getting information from the games nowadays, in the form of texts and phone calls from mates, the match chat on here, Sky Sports Commentary thingy, to be able know how games are going without being there.

[uttoxram75]

Jayzus.....its gonna be a long international break....... 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />

[RotherhamRam]

So last season we lost 17 points through last 10 minutes goals.

Consider this stat 46 games where 3pts are up for grabs a total of 138pts. In the scheme of things the 17 points equates to that still leaves 121 points up for grabs. At the end of last season we had 49pts. Therefore the concern for me of the 121 points available minus the 17pts you highlighted we lost out on 72pts.

Now forget me if I am wrong here the concern for me is the 72pts we dropped not the 17pts in the last 10minutes. Last year we were not in the position to lose games in the last 10 minutes to be fair.

Now this season we are on 24pts after 16 games with only half of the first team fit. Last year we played the majority with players that are not as committed as the ones we have now who would give it their all.

Now in respect of positive play Derby v Barnsley this season we attacked for the whole game went 1-0 down got back to 1-1 and had over 20 shots but the goal keeper saved the shots on target (it does happen)

Forest v Derby won 2-1 with 10 men now surely if he was negative that would not have happened being a local Derby or not we could have had a couple more Hendrick missed a sitter before popping in the winner.

Derby lost at home to Burnley after a total of 21 shots

You don't mention things like the games we have won this season which we would have lost last year. Birmingham first game of the season 20 shots during the game against us won 2-1 but could have been more.

We beat Watford at their place they beat us last season. Doncaster stuff us at home beat them. Blackpool another team no one expected us to win as they always do us but beat them. Reading at their place always beat us got a result. Then there is the Forest game last yr we got stuffed at their place this year lost the keeper in the first few minutes should have been stuffed but won.

I know I am positive most of the time the reason being is that I can see the progress with the team and that we are getting players that care for the team the coach and the fans, will work their guts off for the course. However Bris sorry you only see your point of view which is negative if we were winning the division you would still be negative or not post.

People have an issue with you only posting when we lose or something happens which you use to prove a previous point you have raised. This is the same discussion we always have in respect of your posts its a shame really as it ends up with arguements with you stating you are right and everyone else is wrong and you don't conced to other point of views

[sage]

Boycie, he said straight after the game...

Ten minutes to go, negative tactics, lost a point, when will Clough ever learn.

I paraphrasing, but that's what he said. Everyone who has posted who went to the game disagreed that we were negative. He clearly used a result to drag up old arguments without checking his facts.

Your right he won't answer, because by doing so, he would be admitting the above.

[Alex W]

Then again I never said I agreed with Bris on the negativity point.

I was saying that it is a very bad/worrying statistic and especially because of the way we have been playing lately, and that people shouldn't be running down Bris's opinion because he didn't attend the game (especially those who didn't attend themselves), there are enough ways of getting information from the games nowadays, in the form of texts and phone calls from mates, the match chat on here, Sky Sports Commentary thingy, to be able know how games are going without being there.

And while that is true, Bris came to a conclusion that isn't agreed upon by anyone else, so far as I can see. So i'm struggling to understand how he would come to that conclusion, unless he has friends at the match who thought we were negative too. If not that, then I can only presume he posted the thread for some other reason than to give his view on the game. (I.e, wummery)

It's not a particularly good statistic no, but it isn't a poor one in my opinion, as there are many different factors involved in that statistic that could make it look misleading.

[curb]

So last season we lost 17 points through last 10 minutes goals.

Consider this stat 46 games where 3pts are up for grabs a total of 138pts. In the scheme of things the 17 points equates to that still leaves 121 points up for grabs. At the end of last season we had 49pts. Therefore the concern for me of the 121 points available minus the 17pts you highlighted we lost out on 72pts.

Now forget me if I am wrong here the concern for me is the 72pts we dropped not the 17pts in the last 10minutes. Last year we were not in the position to lose games in the last 10 minutes to be fair.

Now this season we are on 24pts after 16 games with only half of the first team fit. Last year we played the majority with players that are not as committed as the ones we have now who would give it their all.

Now in respect of positive play Derby v Barnsley this season we attacked for the whole game went 1-0 down got back to 1-1 and had over 20 shots but the goal keeper saved the shots on target (it does happen)

Forest v Derby won 2-1 with 10 men now surely if he was negative that would not have happened being a local Derby or not we could have had a couple more Hendrick missed a sitter before popping in the winner.

Derby lost at home to Burnley after a total of 21 shots

You don't mention things like the games we have won this season which we would have lost last year. Birmingham first game of the season 20 shots during the game against us won 2-1 but could have been more.

We beat Watford at their place they beat us last season. Doncaster stuff us at home beat them. Blackpool another team no one expected us to win as they always do us but beat them. Reading at their place always beat us got a result. Then there is the Forest game last yr we got stuffed at their place this year lost the keeper in the first few minutes should have been stuffed but won.

I know I am positive most of the time the reason being is that I can see the progress with the team and that we are getting players that care for the team the coach and the fans, will work their guts off for the course. However Bris sorry you only see your point of view which is negative if we were winning the division you would still be negative or not post.

People have an issue with you only posting when we lose or something happens which you use to prove a previous point you have raised. This is the same discussion we always have in respect of your posts its a shame really as it ends up with arguements with you stating you are right and everyone else is wrong and you don't conced to other point of views

I'm going to bed

[sage]

Me too. Night darling.

[Alex W]

And me. Well, to the whiskey and dvd's.

TL:DR from us all tonight.

[Bris Vegas]

I love it how people are trying to twist my words.. Again digging up info about the 80 minutes prior to the last 10..

When will you get it? I'm posting on the lst 10 minutes of matches.. Again.. The last 10 minutes of matches..

Where we are indeed very negative, I've seen all the games, I've come to that conclusion.. And the facts back up my statement.. Stop trying to debate whether I watch games live or what happens before the 80th minute mark..

My thread is based on the last 10 minutes.. Where we are dreadful.. so obviously something needs to change (cough mentality cough)

[dabber]

I love it how people are trying to twist my words.. Again digging up info about the 80 minutes prior to the last 10..

When will you get it? I'm posting on the lst 10 minutes of matches.. Again.. The last 10 minutes of matches..

Where we are indeed very negative, I've seen all the games, I've come to that conclusion.. And the facts back up my statement.. Stop trying to debate whether I watch games live or what happens before the 80th minute mark..

My thread is based on the last 10 minutes.. Where we are dreadful.. so obviously something needs to change (cough mentality cough)

Christ Bris will you acknowledge that bringing on Bennett and Hughes in the last 10 vs P'boro is NOT as negative as bringing on Kilbane would have been? Hence and therefore we were NOT NEGATIVE against P'boro which was and remains your argument.

[Alex W]

I love it how people are trying to twist my words.. Again digging up info about the 80 minutes prior to the last 10..

When will you get it? I'm posting on the lst 10 minutes of matches.. Again.. The last 10 minutes of matches..

Where we are indeed very negative, I've seen all the games, I've come to that conclusion.. And the facts back up my statement.. Stop trying to debate whether I watch games live or what happens before the 80th minute mark..

My thread is based on the last 10 minutes.. Where we are dreadful.. so obviously something needs to change (cough mentality cough)

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that you're refusing to answer a very simple question because you know you're in the wrong. Do better Bris, do better.

[mcsilks]

10 minutes to go, go defensive, the inevitable happened for the umpteenth time ..

When will Clough learn?

How many more points does he want to cost us with his negativity?

Bris, the above was posted by yourself on Saturday November 6th at 17:58. Had you watched the game before you posted this or not?

The questions has been asked many times on this thread and needs answering to provide validity to your argument.

If your answer is yes then your argument holds up.

If your answer is no then you have posted up a belief that is merely based on your opinion of the game and is not the opinion of those who attended and posted on the thread who disagree with your opinion.

That is why you need to answer the very simple question with a yes or a no.

[Bris Vegas]

10 minutes to go, go defensive, the inevitable happened for the umpteenth time ..

When will Clough learn?

How many more points does he want to cost us with his negativity?

Bris, the above was posted by yourself on Saturday November 6th at 17:58. Had you watched the game before you posted this or not?

The questions has been asked many times on this thread and needs answering to provide validity to your argument.

If your answer is yes then your argument holds up.

If your answer is no then you have posted up a belief that is merely based on your opinion of the game and is not the opinion of those who attended and posted on the thread who disagree with your opinion.

That is why you need to answer the very simple question with a yes or a no.

So basically if I say yes then the arguement stands, yet if I say no then it doesn't..

So the fact that we go negative with 10 minutes to go and have not scored a late winner since 2009 only stands if I saw the game against Peterborough.. What the hell? Talk about hiding a point by turning on the poster.. It has nothing to do with me whatsoever, it has everything to do with the fact that we are dreadful when drawing with 10 minutes to go.. Trying to deflect that fact away by turning on a poster is petty.. It doesn't matter who said it, facts are there for all to be seen.. I never saw Ali in the flesh but I'm entitled to say he's an amazing boxer..

Of the P'Boro game, yes I have seen it.. I stand by my comment, I saw a like for like swap with Robinson going off and Bennett coming on and Hughes coming on to replace the more attack minded Ward in an attempt to slow the game down.. If we were going for the win we'd have thrown Bennett on for a midfielder and not eat up precious time with pointless subs (Hughes and Kilbane).. We didn't..

Now if you don't agree with the P'Boro game, fine.. Let's talk about the 25 odd games previous to that stretching over 2 years.. Negativity wins you nothing.. We don't score goals late on to win games, there is a serious issue with that.. When we're drawing with 10 mins to go next game, remember those stats (59% chance draw and 41% loss)

[Bris Vegas]

Christ Bris will you acknowledge that bringing on Bennett and Hughes in the last 10 vs P'boro is NOT as negative as bringing on Kilbane would have been? Hence and therefore we were NOT NEGATIVE against P'boro which was and remains your argument.

No I won't acknowledge it.. Hughes was brought on to waste up precious time so we can hold out for a draw.. Why else would you take off your most creative midfielder for a youth? To waste time..

As for Bennett and Robinson, yeh great idea, take off your near top scorer who had already bagged 2 goals that game for a 15 year old.. If Clough wanted to win that game Bryson or Hendrick would have made way for a striker.. (Bennett).. Not taking off your 2 players who are most likely to score..

Once again, how is that anything but negative? Seriously?

I didn't see Peterborough make any pointless subs late on to waste time, did you? Probably because they wanted to win the game, and not for the first time this season, they've hit a late winner.

[mcsilks]

So basically if I say yes then the arguement stands, yet if I say no then it doesn't..

So the fact that we go negative with 10 minutes to go and have not scored a late winner since 2009 only stands if I saw the game against Peterborough.. What the hell? Talk about hiding a point by turning on the poster.. It has nothing to do with me whatsoever, it has everything to do with the fact that we are dreadful when drawing with 10 minutes to go.. Trying to deflect that fact away by turning on a poster is petty.. It doesn't matter who said it, facts are there for all to be seen.. I never saw Ali in the flesh but I'm entitled to say he's an amazing boxer..

Of the P'Boro game, yes I have seen it.. I stand by my comment, I saw a like for like swap with Robinson going off and Bennett coming on and Hughes coming on to replace the more attack minded Ward in an attempt to slow the game down.. If we were going for the win we'd have thrown Bennett on for a midfielder and not eat up precious time with pointless subs (Hughes and Kilbane).. We didn't..

Now if you don't agree with the P'Boro game, fine.. Let's talk about the 25 odd games previous to that stretching over 2 years.. Negativity wins you nothing.. We don't score goals late on to win games, there is a serious issue with that.. When we're drawing with 10 mins to go next game, remember those stats (59% chance draw and 41% loss)

And yet again you have avoided the question.

Did you watch the game prior to posting your "we were negative" post? Can you not answer this question?

I am not turning on you. Far from it. I am merely saying what others have asked. How can you say that we were negative in the last 10 minutes of that particular game if you hadn't actually watched the game at the time of the post.

Fellow posters who had actually been at the game were saying we weren't negative but you chose to argue with them saying that we were. How did you know that as you hadn't seen the game.

By refusing to answer the question, I can only assume that you took a wild stab in the dark and guessed we were negative based on the fact that we lost the game. This brings you into question, not your debate.

[sage]

Had you seen the game when you launched your 'Negativity' thread. Yes or No?

[Bris Vegas]

Had you seen the game when you launched your 'Negativity' thread. Yes or No?

Please tell me what this question has to do with us being negative going into the last 10 minutes of the games for god knows how long? Take me out of the equation, and imagine Joe Bloggs said it..

Do you agree with the statement or not? If not, please debate with me and fellow posters on why it's not true.. If you're not interested in debating what seems to me like an appaling record, then seriously, why are you even posting on this thread?

[AndyB]

The issue of dropping points due to conceding late goals is much improved this season, I think Saturday was the first? Last season we were terrible for it so a vast improvement!