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Negativity


Bris Vegas

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I thought this thread might be posted but lets look at it a different way shall we.

We are 7th one point of 6th.

We have Brayford, Barker, Anderson, Bailey, Green, Riggott, Steve Davies, Tyson, all out injured. Carrying injuries we have O'Brien with his shoulder, Theo with his hamstring. Maguire was not in the game Wednesday but remember he has a broken nose and may be not ready to play. Leacock may not be in the plans but he always seems to have and injury or an illness. Buxton playing after being out for over 12 months with not much match practice. Shackell is carrying a hip injury.

Then we have academy players of Hendrick along with O'Brien, Hughes and Bennett playing when if all the injuries were not they would not be playing. They have done us proud and should be commended along with Clough for having the courage to give them game time and experience. Short term did not work but long term it will as it shows them where they are at and what they actually need to do to achieve that level.

If someone had told me were 7th 1pt of playoff positions with so many injuries and youth players playing at the beginning of the season I would have laughed at them. If I had said that to everyone on here you would have been calling me mad and wanting me locked up.

Now the positive side of things by the next game we may have Barker, Bailey, Brayford, Tyson, Green, Shackell (back fully fit), Theo fully over his injury, O'Brien not on pain killing injections. The way I see it if these are ready or nearly ready to be back playing this is a brand new side/sqaud one that was used to winning before injuries hit the team. Yes we have big teams coming up but I honestly think this will make a massive difference and if people are going to get on the back of a team in 7th with all this going off is fine its your choice and that is what forums are about. For me I see a team trying their hardest for us and the fans something that we have not seen at Derby since probably Jim Smith days and certainly not since Cox era.

The last thing I will say on this is that NO team likes going to Peterborough as they will always score goals don't think they have had a game where they fail to do so. They play with ethos of we will score more than you, which means you can not be defensive as it also means you need to score goals. Peterborough on a number of occaisons have come from being well out of the game ending up winning or drawing. The season they were lasy in Championship they were trailing 4-0 at half time to cardiff they went on to draw the game 4-4. They score 7 against Ipswich this season I think. If anyone honestly thought that we were going to walk over them then they were wrong. This was a game I expected to lose with the current 'fit' team. If the players out injured were playing then I believe we would have won it.

We're 7th based on early form and other teams around us being inconsistent. we should have won today. I'm currently happy with our league position. Thing is though, why do you lot seem to think we should either be distraught or delighted? I'm pleased. Nothing more, nothing less. Its a joke that you say they "have done us proud and should be commended along with Clough". No they shouldn't. They've done their jobs, what they're being paid for, and inconsistently at that. Its also a joke that people should be calling for Cloughs head (usually sideshowbob) Whats wrong with being both happy at some aspects and disappointed at others. There are two sides to what is happening at Derby, and it seems nobody realises that. Some only see one side and others the opposite. OPEN YOUR EYES.

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Just gonna quote a tweet form a minute ago, should silence this thread.

[url=http://twitter.com/#!/tomloakes]tomloakes [size=3]Tom Loakes[/size]

Still in a state of shock after [url=http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23dcfc]#dcfc defeat. Really can't believe it. Never seen the players so gutted, yet so positive. We'll be back!

I'm not sure why they are so positive after today, we didn't play well at all.

Just to re iterate, I'm only annoyed about today.

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Hate to bring up this reference as all the Clough-worshippers love to use it, but surely the success of Sir Alex Ferguson has always been the faith he puts in his young players? Berbatov is a better player than Welbeck at the moment but I'd put a lot of money on saying Welbeck will end up a better player developing under Sir Alex's management. But surely Ferguson also picks a team he thinks will win the game?

When you manage young players, there's two things you must do: instill confidence, and keep their feet on the ground. Clough believes these young players are good enough to win him games and he's picked them above some talented senior pros - that gives them confidence. Sending them to play for the Academy or to school the following morning is also a good way of keeping their feet on the ground,

But anyway, back to Bris' point. Throwing away precious points late hasn't been much of a problem this season and it's certainly not dogged us like it did last year, so I'm a bit baffled by the strongly-worded OP.

What we actually need to start doing is get some first-choice players fit and stop conceding goals at any point in the 90 minutes.

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I'm not sure why they are so positive after today, we didn't play well at all.

Just to re iterate, I'm only annoyed about today.

Would you rather they acted negativly and were depressed about the result, just be glad they are positive after the game, can only be good, eh?

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Would you rather they acted negativly and were depressed about the result, just be glad they are positive after the game, can only be good, eh?

It depends how 'positive' and 'negative' are defined.

I'm pretty negative after paying my ticket and travel to watch that. I hope they're not too bubbly, to be honest.

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Hate to bring up this reference as all the Clough-worshippers love to use it, but surely the success of Sir Alex Ferguson has always been the faith he puts in his young players? Berbatov is a better player than Welbeck at the moment but I'd put a lot of money on saying Welbeck will end up a better player developing under Sir Alex's management. But surely Ferguson also picks a team he thinks will win the game?

Blooding the youth players is totally, 100% the right thing to do. Just not when it's 2-2, the game could go either way and we're trying to get out of a bit of a slump.

.

I think the difference between the Ferguson scenario and ours, is that Welbeck can change games, and even at his young age has proved it. Callum Ball and Mason Bennett don't have any credentials as game changers whatsoever, yet. So if we were two down, or two up, then I would have thrown them on to give them experience. But to unnecessarily rely on them when Cwyka and Maguire are ready to play, but not selected for the squad, seems odd.

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It depends how 'positive' and 'negative' are defined.

I'm pretty negative after paying my ticket and travel to watch that. I hope they're not too bubbly, to be honest.

Ah yeah true, I mean I would like to tell the players and Nige what I really think after a bad game, and it wouldn't be pretty, but it just seems that those effects don't work. Like when Jewell was in charge and after every PL game he roared at the lads and told the cameras how crap they were, did it work? No. Anyway, don't forget that part of the tweet also said, "Never seen the players so gutted". But then again, I wasn't there so whatever happens, your opinion is more valid than mine, haha

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We were negative.. Once again, we don't go for winners with 10 minutes to go, we try and hold out..

A simple point..

You try and win the game when drawing (10 mins to go), and you end up either winning, drawing (the most occasional) or you're hit on the break (unlikely)

Or you try and draw with 10 minutes to go and you have 0% chance of winning (like we've done for the past 3 years and we're yet to get a last 10 minute winner under Clough in the league - please post if this isn't true) or you'll draw or lose (like we've done 100 times under Clough)

His last 10 minute 'tactics' is the worst I've seen from any given manager.. It's simply shocking and an insult to those that pay to enter to watch the team over and over again 'settle' for a draw.. We're not playing Man Utd every week, mentioned this before, draws are so overrated especially in this league.. Go for the bleddy win for goodness sake!

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10 minutes to go, go defensive, the inevitable happened for the umpteenth time ..

When will Clough learn?

How many more points does he want to cost us with his negativity?

This is almost WUM behaviour. Posting uninformed rubbish like this seconds after the final whistle, only for people who were actually there to come on later and tell you what happened. Where the F are you getting your opinions from. I listened to match on radio and there wasn't much 'go defensive' chat. Were you listening to Peteborough commentaters maybe who were slating Derby for going defensive? You obviously don't rate Clough and you had the poor results to back you up for the last couple of seasons, as long as you forget about everything else like the board/the rebuilding/the sustainable future etc etc. Now we have a good start to the season, you blinkered opinion has made you look a bit silly and your response has been to go down this negativity/draw chat at every possible point. Please come up with something new, or let the people who actually go the games give their opinion before we are forced to have yours rammed down our throats.

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We were negative.. Once again, we don't go for winners with 10 minutes to go, we try and hold out..

A simple point..

You try and win the game when drawing (10 mins to go), and you end up either winning, drawing (the most occasional) or you're hit on the break (unlikely)

Or you try and draw with 10 minutes to go and you have 0% chance of winning (like we've done for the past 3 years and we're yet to get a last 10 minute winner under Clough in the league - please post if this isn't true) or you'll draw or lose (like we've done 100 times under Clough)

His last 10 minute 'tactics' is the worst I've seen from any given manager.. It's simply shocking and an insult to those that pay to enter to watch the team over and over again 'settle' for a draw.. We're not playing Man Utd every week, mentioned this before, draws are so overrated especially in this league.. Go for the bleddy win for goodness sake!

Did you miss this post yesterday? He's only got 1 post to his name and he's already made 5 times as many good points as you!...

Bris Vegas you are talking nonsense!! Nige did not go negative at all today, if you were there you would know this. the ref gave a shocking free kick which resulted in their winner. People like you criticiseze for the sake of it. Theo should have made it 3, we concede a sloppy goal before half time and then a second after half time. The next 20 mins we were the better team, people need to stop taling the same crap and blaming the same people!

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10 minutes to go, go defensive, the inevitable happened for the umpteenth time ..

When will Clough learn?

How many more points does he want to cost us with his negativity?

Bringing two strikers and a winger on leaving a keeper and defender on the bench? I wouldn't call that exactly defensive, in my opinion we should of gone 5 at the back, when we was 2-0 up away from home and just see out the win.

My argument would of been not being negative enough.

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CLOUGH OUT!!!!!

Very constructive 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />

This is almost WUM behaviour. ...

Almost WUM... Bris lives to be a WUM. I am only able to get on here infrequently but one thing can be guaranteed and that is a BrisVegas message that is guaranteed to get things stirred up. He loves it.

Obviously its frustrating to lose a two goal lead, in the 93rd minute, to a disputed free kick but this constant ignoring of the context within which DCFC is playing is ridiculous (not just from Bris, I should add). I'm not 100% happy about this context; injuries, not getting the signings it would appear Nige wanted in the summer (experienced midfielder for example), not going for loans to cover the RB position, having to play people out of position as a result, having to play kids as a result. However, that is the context and that's how its going to be for a while. So lets judge things based on that and realise that in the circumstances we are doing pretty well. Hopefully, things will get better once the break is out of the way.

Its also about expectation. Some expect us to play like Barcelona - and for Theo to play like Messi - every week and rant, rave and scorn when we don't. This, in my view, is unrealistic and does not take account of the overall situation (and there's no point moaning about that, because you can't change it and all it will do is give you an ulcer... about football!).

Others expect us to be competitive, but probably only good enough for a top half finish. While I would obviously love us to get promotion, I don't think we will... because of the context. Perhaps I would be seen as being negative myself because my expectations are so low and that I should be wanting better for my club. Well I do want better. But i also want long term financial stability and an end to the boom and bust. I want to see some kids coming through instead of shelling out millions on *****, I want to see the moaning loud mouthed t*ssers who sit near me f off and not come back, I want to see some effort from the players and the occasional bit of top quality football from players who want to play for the club... frankly, I think this is starting to happen more often than not - and I'm glad for it.

Therefore, we've got to expect the odd loss, away from home, with 10 or more injuries, with a dodgy free kick, in the 93rd minute... and while painful and frustrating lets not have a ridiculous autopsy of Nigel's tactics and ability etc etc etc. Lets just accept that its a game and sometimes you lose.

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I generally agree with you on this point Bris and have had similar concerns for the past couple of seasons. However, i dont think we were negative in the last 10 minutes yesterday, we played in the last 10 minutes how we did all game. We lost it in the midfield, Bryson and Hendrick were passengers for all of the second half and there midfield bossed it. This happens all to often away from home, at Pride Park when teams generally sit back more they're able to do it but away from home when teams are pressing higher and the passing needs to be quicker and more intricate they're not good enough.

The substitutions Nigel made were absolutely f*cking stupid but they werent negative. The inability of Callum Ball to hold it up didnt help matters, he will never be a Championship footballer purely based on his physical attributes, he's too slow and not big enough to consistently win headers. If you're slow at this level you've got to either win a lot in the air or have the touch of Berbatov, he's got neither.

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Almost WUM... Bris lives to be a WUM. I am only able to get on here infrequently but one thing can be guaranteed and that is a BrisVegas message that is guaranteed to get things stirred up. He loves it.

How very right you are. Am beginning to think he would start an argument with his own shadow if it answered back.

He said the same thing last time around and was made to look quite silly and has decided to have another go.

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