The Suit Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Sorry to call you out personally but, It seems like you have a good handle on the finances so i want you to please give me your best opinion on the following. Since GSE took over exactly how much NEW money have they invested in DCFC. My defenition of new investment is not anything they paid to buy the club that is "Purchase Price" So since they purchased the club what has happened in terms of investment since then , I want to understand the NET investment not the Gross investemnt , for example if the club received £8m tv money and GSE invested that straight back in the club I do NOT count that as NET investment , that is mearly recycling what would have happened anyway either with or without them the NET investment is everything they have put in over and above the cash generated by Season ticket sales , merchandising , TV , Parachute payments , Transfer Fees etc. What I am tyring to understand is if the LOG had stayed put and invested 0 cash would we be better or worse off now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obi1Kenobi0 Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 http://www.dcfcfans.uk/showthread.php?t=6255 Take a look at this thread first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Sorry to call you out personally but, It seems like you have a good handle on the finances so i want you to please give me your best opinion on the following. Since GSE took over exactly how much NEW money have they invested in DCFC. My defenition of new investment is not anything they paid to buy the club that is "Purchase Price" So since they purchased the club what has happened in terms of investment since then , I want to understand the NET investment not the Gross investemnt , for example if the club received £8m tv money and GSE invested that straight back in the club I do NOT count that as NET investment , that is mearly recycling what would have happened anyway either with or without them the NET investment is everything they have put in over and above the cash generated by Season ticket sales , merchandising , TV , Parachute payments , Transfer Fees etc. What I am tyring to understand is if the LOG had stayed put and invested 0 cash would we be better or worse off now £14.34m of new cash identified in the accounts to date-there may/may not be more.The club claim £25m in total but this can't be verified -we'll get a better picture in a month's time. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that if the current administration have put £xm in,then the LOG would have had to do the same.This would only hold true if they'd made the same mistakes in the axis of players from Sav to Varney.You're talking lots of wasted fees/high wages/contract buy outs there. For what it's worth,with skilful management and a policy of adding a few decent players to what we already had (woeful in Prem terms,but capable of promotion the year before) I reckon promotion could have been attained without the LOG injecting new cash.However,it can only be conjecture as anything could have happened.I don't see a situation whereby they would have been forced to inject cash in all possible eventualities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Ramblur You mentioned a c£9m loan taken out by GSE. How does that square with the debt reduction figures? Was it just a short term expedient and was paid off quickly? It also seems to be pretty close to the gap between the known about investment and the £25m figure. Is it possible that they have counted this money as 'investment'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteDerby Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Ramblur You mentioned a c£9m loan taken out by GSE. How does that square with the debt reduction figures? Was it just a short term expedient and was paid off quickly? It also seems to be pretty close to the gap between the known about investment and the £25m figure. Is it possible that they have counted this money as 'investment'? I was interested in this to CR - especially as TG said in that Rams Trust interview I just read that they won't borrow to fund the development of the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 I was interested in this to CR - especially as TG said in that Rams Trust interview I just read that they won't borrow to fund the development of the squad. Ramstrust interview is about the future, the loan Is in the past so where's the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Ramblur You mentioned a c£9m loan taken out by GSE. How does that square with the debt reduction figures? Was it just a short term expedient and was paid off quickly? It also seems to be pretty close to the gap between the known about investment and the £25m figure. Is it possible that they have counted this money as 'investment'? Given that we are told the only outstanding debt is the mortgage on Pride Park it would appear the loan was paid off pretty quickly, can't remember if it has been paid off by 30 June 2009 but if not we will know in a few weeks time (when accounts are released) when it was paid off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Ramblur You mentioned a c£9m loan taken out by GSE. How does that square with the debt reduction figures? Was it just a short term expedient and was paid off quickly? It also seems to be pretty close to the gap between the known about investment and the £25m figure. Is it possible that they have counted this money as 'investment'? Given that in the case of the Five Arrows loan the first chute payment acted both as security for,and the means to repay the loan,the same may have been true for this one.The £1m left from the 1st chute payment may have brought the outstanding loan down to £8m at the year end. I can remember AP anticipating a question from (I think) Gibbo on the 2nd chute payment-he obviously guessed that the question was going to be if anything was to be available from it for transfers.He chuckled and said that £8m was to repay debt (which ties in with my scenario),with the rest to deal with contract buy outs.MadAmster on the old DET forum took all and sundry to task if they suggested the chute payment had gone anywhere else.However,this seemed to be contradicted by Appleby,who said that the investors had dug deep. With all the fancy footwork going on,it's impossible to give a definitive answer on this,however we're told that the only debt now is the mortgage.I do however remember Appleby making a point of saying that the mortgage represented the only money owing to banks -the significance of this may manifest itself in the next accounts ,as there would appear to have been a loan of $5.9m (c£3.6m at the time) granted by certain investors (I could list them if anyone is particularly interested,as they appear on the charge document).I mentioned this some time ago on the old DET forum-it appears to me that the RT are also tuned into this, as the possibility of investor loans appeared in one of their questions. I know that the £9m loan can't have been counted as part of a £25m investment (nor should it). I believe short term expedient to be right.As I've said before,the Jan 08 spending used cash that could otherwise have plugged a gap in the first chute payment,and so this gap had to be filled by other means. Whilst the Prem season's income could support the LOG's activities,it couldn't support the Jan 08 activity.This kind of thing catches up with you eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 there would appear to have been a loan of $5.9m (c£3.6m at the time) granted by certain investors (I could list them if anyone is particularly interested,as they appear on the charge document). Yes please - any details on this would be interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Yes please - any details on this would be interesting Mortgagor:- General Sports Derby (UK) Ltd Mortgagees:- Derby County Investors LLC,General Sports and Entertainment LLC,Ronald D. Offutt,Prairie Merchant Corporation,Thomas S. Ricketts,Thomas M. Vertin. Amount:- $5.9m (c£3.6m at the time) Security:- 2,280,519 shares in Gellaw 101 Ltd. Term and terms:-Unknown. I would stress that this may be a long term loan,or it may also have subsequently been converted into shares by capital call/s. Worst case scenario would be short term and repaid out of DCFC Ltd funds,which would represent a case of the board giveth and the board taketh away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Interesting - looking up the names I didn't recognise Ricketts is the billionaire CEO of an investment bank, who bought the Chicago Cubs as his boyhood dream. So is his interest in DCFC for love (like the Cubs - or an investment?) Can't find too much on Vertins other than he's also involved in Investment Banking - but he isn't listed on the official site as an owner or board member http://www.dcfc.co.uk/page/OwnershipBoardArticle/0,,10270,00.html Prairie Merchant is Brett W Wilson Ronald D. Offutt is the "Sultan Of Spuds" and the winner of the Northern Plains Potato Growers Association's Meritorious Service Award 2011! http://www.potatopro.com/Lists/News/DispForm.aspx?List=813b91f5-f5b5-46ec-95e2-463829ed0100&ID=4876 Ron is also known and respected nationally in the potato business for his vision and innovation Insert your own punchline here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Ronald D. Offutt is the "Sultan Of Spuds" and the winner of the Northern Plains Potato Growers Association's Meritorious Service Award 2011! http://www.potatopro.com/Lists/News/DispForm.aspx?List=813b91f5-f5b5-46ec-95e2-463829ed0100&ID=4876 Insert your own punchline here So why are the half time chips so *****??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 So why are the half time chips so *****??? How's the crisp passing these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Interesting - looking up the names I didn't recognise Ricketts is the billionaire CEO of an investment bank, who bought the Chicago Cubs as his boyhood dream. So is his interest in DCFC for love (like the Cubs - or an investment?) Can't find too much on Vertins other than he's also involved in Investment Banking - but he isn't listed on the official site as an owner or board member http://www.dcfc.co.uk/page/OwnershipBoardArticle/0,,10270,00.html Prairie Merchant is Brett W Wilson Ronald D. Offutt is the "Sultan Of Spuds" and the winner of the Northern Plains Potato Growers Association's Meritorious Service Award 2011! http://www.potatopro.com/Lists/News/DispForm.aspx?List=813b91f5-f5b5-46ec-95e2-463829ed0100&ID=4876 Insert your own punchline here The O/S only lists principal investors-they were inserted on the site after the Martinovich episode to show that MICG wasn't a major investor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Ah yes - Just spotted that it says investors “includeâ€... So sadly The Spud Master is not deemed worthy of the lits. Maybe THAT’S why the chips at the ground are so crap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Ah yes - Just spotted that it says investors “includeâ€... So sadly The Spud Master is not deemed worthy of the lits. Maybe THAT’S why the chips at the ground are so crap? Quite ambiguously written actually,because it doesn't say they are all the lead owners,just that the listed number amongst them.I thought at the time that it wouldn't actually preclude MICG from being a member of the band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 How's the crisp passing these days? If Clough goes will they go for Kenny Jacket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 If Clough goes will they go for Kenny Jacket? Waffle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 New investment, could sign Javier Masherano... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 New investment, could sign Javier Masherano... Bert Millichip would have vetoed that move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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