Boycie Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 We've got our wum file in the mod room. Your names top of the....only kidding mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Some of the threads/posts are so ridiculous, they must be WUM's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 We're weeding the persistent thread hi jackers out, but it's a game of cat and mouse. Any non GSE Thread, or Clough out/in thread that is hi jacked into a Board out/clough out rant will be yellow carded. We're getting there Sage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteDerby Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Our current run and style is exactly the same as when phil brown went and jewell went. Our manager after 2 years in charge has said we are in a relegation battle and with 1 win out of 13. Great progress Can you seriously not recongise or accept the mitigating circumstances? What we are seeing is the symptom - the cause being a total lack of appropriate investment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteDerby Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 We were heading for relegation? We were 18th when Nigel took over, we ended the season 18th as well. You portray it as some amazing feat, some sort of Houdini escape act. I'd love you to be right Alex, I sincerely would, I just don't have faith in it happening anymore. Wilko, think back. We were dead men standing when Clough took over. We WOULD have been down had Jewell remained, surely there's nobody going to seriously deny that? The fact that we're on a bad run right now is simply down to a lack of any strength in key areas and a resulting low confidence. Why do you constantly brush this aside? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Can you seriously not recongise or accept the mitigating circumstances? What we are seeing is the symptom - the cause being a total lack of appropriate investment! I totally agree that we need badly need investment and our squad is bare but I also think that Clough isnt doing his job very well either, the few players we do have a far from playing there best, I feel his negitivity is running through the players and 2 years on he still hasnt sort out our defence after saying this was the first thing he was going to do despite spending the money he has had there, Barker was a million, Brayford around 600k, moxey who he has since sold and experianced roberts and anderson. There arent many sides in our league with a million pound centre half. If he had more money he may well be doing better but we are going backwards. None of us know if anyone else could do better but there are also plenty of other managers in the football league with no money and produce a bit of progress. The players are unmotivated, have no confidence and look lost of ideas, that is not the boards fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Good post but I fear you've unintentionally made a very good argument for why Nigel shouldn't be at the club (or indeed was the right man to employ when it was clear there would be no money to spend) and why, thanks to the under investment and subsequent turbulent time we are going through on and off the pitch, we need an experienced manager who can hold a steady ship and who can motivate, organise and is a little more tactically astute. I dont want Clough to leave at the moment but he appears to be a man struggling to cope with it all. The point is - we can't get a new manager now. I really don't believe there is a manager in this country that we could have afforded at the time that would be able to get this side in a better position, given the incredible constraints Nigel Clough has been working under. And why would an experienced manager at this level even want to come and work for Derby County with no money available, and players being sold under the managers nose? There's no one that would gamble their future reputation. Nigel Clough is holding the ship as steady as can be done at the moment. Results aren't great and everyone knows that, and tactically some mistakes have been made, but every single manager in the world makes those mistakes. He was probably making them when we were in a purple patch and it wasn't noticed. No one would find this job anything other than a struggle - I'm not sure what you expect this job to be at the moment, but we sold our best striker a few games in to the season without adequately replacing him, and we've just sold our most talented player, along with our only reputable left back. As I've said before, we need to survive and given the squad we have, that would be good going. The real test will be when this cost cutting exercise is over. I'm not in love with Nigel Clough, and if we had held on to Commons, Hulse and Moxey, and bought player/s in the window, and were still in this position, I'd be the first to point the finger because that is a team that should warrant a higher position. But we no longer have those players, and were unable to bring in anyone. Most teams below us have invested - Andy Keogh scored for Bristol City at the weekend. Why couldn't we get him? I suspect the percentage of his wages that Wolves were asking for was too high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 The point is - we can't get a new manager now. I really don't believe there is a manager in this country that we could have afforded at the time that would be able to get this side in a better position, given the incredible constraints Nigel Clough has been working under. And why would an experienced manager at this level even want to come and work for Derby County with no money available, and players being sold under the managers nose? There's no one that would gamble their future reputation. Nigel Clough is holding the ship as steady as can be done at the moment. Results aren't great and everyone knows that, and tactically some mistakes have been made, but every single manager in the world makes those mistakes. He was probably making them when we were in a purple patch and it wasn't noticed. No one would find this job anything other than a struggle - I'm not sure what you expect this job to be at the moment, but we sold our best striker a few games in to the season without adequately replacing him, and we've just sold our most talented player, along with our only reputable left back. As I've said before, we need to survive and given the squad we have, that would be good going. The real test will be when this cost cutting exercise is over. I'm not in love with Nigel Clough, and if we had held on to Commons, Hulse and Moxey, and bought player/s in the window, and were still in this position, I'd be the first to point the finger because that is a team that should warrant a higher position. But we no longer have those players, and were unable to bring in anyone. Most teams below us have invested - Andy Keogh scored for Bristol City at the weekend. Why couldn't we get him? I suspect the percentage of his wages that Wolves were asking for was too high.Neither of which Clough condoned I suppose ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Neither of which Clough condoned I suppose ? I doubt he'd be delighted about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I doubt he'd be delighted about it. What if he instigated most of it, I do not go along completely with the Clough whiter than white theory you appear to have. He also , on his own admission knew what he was walking into, and taking on, and was happy to go along with it.. Its no good moaning when things don't work out, and continually blame others for it. I respect others opinions:rolleyes:, but I simply think his ego, and maybe his dad ( God rest his soul ), got him into thinking he is better than he is, nothing wrong with having confidence in yourself, but if you have not got it , you have not got it. Also the idea that no other manager could make a better fist of it , even with the present staff is preposterous, lose the dressing room, which he appears to have done, and you are in serious trouble. If we lose to the Foxes, and he still keeps his job, the the Yanks should be certified insane, IMHO:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretDave Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 So many people on here say that nobody else could do a better job than Nigel Clough, and that he's not had a fair chance because he's had no money to spend. But, think back to when George Burley was manager at Derby. He had to contend with the "Three Amigos" being in charge of the club, and was only ever given what I believe was £50,000 to spend on transfer fees, with which he bought Michael Johnson. However, he had some amazing scouts and managed to bring in for free the likes of Inigo Idiakez, Morten Bisgaard, Grzegorz Rasiak, Marco Reich (who was good for a while), Paul Peschisolido and Tommy Smith. He also managed to nurture Tom Huddlestone in to the team, making him one of the most sought after young players in the country. Yes, George Burley's Derby struggled for his first season in charge, but once he built up a decent team, we finished 4th in the Championship, playing some of the most exciting football Pride Park has seen since the Baiano, Eranio, Wanchope days in the Premiership. I really do think that if George had just a slight bit of backing with, say £1m to spend, he would have eventually taken us up automatically. Nigel Clough just doesn't seem to have the skills necessary to find enough good players "on the cheap". When you've got budget constaints, I think that you really do have to look further afield than England/Scotland to find good talent. Yes, we did bring in Alberto Beuno, but this was just a loan, and he seems a shadow of the player he used to be, he seems really de-motivated at the moment. Another big issue that I have with Nigel is that when you've got such a small squad, you really do need to get on with all of the players and not cause friction. What happened at the weekend with his comments towards Tomasz Cywka was in my opinion, a total disgrace. I'm a season ticket holder and I think Cywka is one of the best performers we have had this season - Nigel is totally out of order singling him out like that. After all, Nigel bought Tomasz to the club, so he should have known his strengths and weaknesses beforehand. I really do think that it's time for a change. We need a manager that is a great motivator of young players and has an eye for a bargain. Someone who can do what George Burley did before. The man himself is available at the moment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcfcdavecov Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 For a moment there i thought you were going to give us a list of better candidates. But, instead we got an essay on Burley who did a shte job with budget constraints at Palace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 What if he instigated most of it, I do not go along completely with the Clough whiter than white theory you appear to have. He also , on his own admission knew what he was walking into, and taking on, and was happy to go along with it.. Its no good moaning when things don't work out, and continually blame others for it. I respect others opinions:rolleyes:, but I simply think his ego, and maybe his dad ( God rest his soul ), got him into thinking he is better than he is, nothing wrong with having confidence in yourself, but if you have not got it , you have not got it. Also the idea that no other manager could make a better fist of it , even with the present staff is preposterous, lose the dressing room, which he appears to have done, and you are in serious trouble. If we lose to the Foxes, and he still keeps his job, the the Yanks should be certified insane, IMHO:) I don't think Clough is whiter than white. I say plenty about him that suggests that. So what you're saying is - lose against Leicester and Clough should be sacked. WHO DO WE GET IN? We have no money to attract anyone better. It's really that simple. If it's so proposterous, name 3 managers that would improve us that we wouldn't have to pay any compensation for, and that would be on the same or less money than Clough. Because that will undoubtedly be a stipulation in the next search for a manager. This is all hypothetical, because a) he doesn't yet deserve the sack, and b) no way the board would buy him out of contract. Who says he's lost the dressing room? He slated a player on Saturday on Radio Derby, but he's done that all season, including when we were winning - so nothing's really changed, that is just an opinion. Nobody knows what makes Cwyka click. Maybe a good rollocking will be what he needs, maybe it won't. But until he next plays, it's a not a judgement we can make. I don't like the interviews he gives when he personally goes for people, but I'm not in the dressing room, I don't know the players and what fires them up. Re the transfers, whether Clough went along with Hulse and Commons sales is irrelevant - they were sanctioned by a board who are demented on slashing the wage bill and bringing in money. Whether he was happy or not, it will not have made a blind bit of difference. Just the same with this transfer window, I'm sure Clough will have identified people, but that has be authorised before offers can be made. We barely scraped money together for Ben Davies, so they obviously wouldn't permit another transfer. If we sack Clough and don't replace him with someone more able, you'll be back on this forum in a few months coming out with the same old thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretDave Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 For a moment there i thought you were going to give us a list of better candidates. But, instead we got an essay on Burley who did a shte job with budget constraints at Palace. Very true, it didn't work out for Burley at Crystal Palace, but remember he only had 6 months in charge. It took him a good year before he turned things around at Derby, but he certainly turned things around for the better! Maybe Burley isn't the answer, but we need someone who's capable of finding good and cheap players from abroad and is good at nurturing young talent. It will take years and years to build a team on the cheap if we can only buy from England/Scotland with a manager that upsets lots of his players! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Very true, it didn't work out for Burley at Crystal Palace, but remember he only had 6 months in charge. It took him a good year before he turned things around at Derby, but he certainly turned things around for the better! Maybe Burley isn't the answer, but we need someone who's capable of finding good and cheap players from abroad and is good at nurturing young talent. It will take years and years to build a team on the cheap if we can only buy from England/Scotland with a manager that upsets lots of his players! If it took him a year to turn things round last time, and 6 months wasn't enough at Palace, how will he turn our season round in 3 months and avoid delegation, which a lot of Clough's knockerd see as inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Didn't burley come in when we were in a worse situation after gregory and keep us up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretDave Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 If it took him a year to turn things round at Palace how will he turn our season round in 3 months and avoid delegation, which a lot of Clough's knockerd see as inevitable. Well, when he took over Derby from John Gregory, all of the players were de-motivated, we were on the verge of the relegation zone and needed at least 3 wins out of the remaining 6 to stay up. We did win 3 out of 6 and did stay up, so it is definitely possible. I'm sure a good manager could keep us up, we've got some good players here. They're just all rock bottom on confidence at the mo and need a good motivator to pick them up. Finding a good striker from somewhere would certainly help too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 The point is - we can't get a new manager now. I really don't believe there is a manager in this country that we could have afforded at the time that would be able to get this side in a better position, given the incredible constraints Nigel Clough has been working under. And why would an experienced manager at this level even want to come and work for Derby County with no money available, and players being sold under the managers nose? There's no one that would gamble their future reputation. Nigel Clough is holding the ship as steady as can be done at the moment. Results aren't great and everyone knows that, and tactically some mistakes have been made, but every single manager in the world makes those mistakes. He was probably making them when we were in a purple patch and it wasn't noticed. No one would find this job anything other than a struggle - I'm not sure what you expect this job to be at the moment, but we sold our best striker a few games in to the season without adequately replacing him, and we've just sold our most talented player, along with our only reputable left back. As I've said before, we need to survive and given the squad we have, that would be good going. The real test will be when this cost cutting exercise is over. I'm not in love with Nigel Clough, and if we had held on to Commons, Hulse and Moxey, and bought player/s in the window, and were still in this position, I'd be the first to point the finger because that is a team that should warrant a higher position. But we no longer have those players, and were unable to bring in anyone. Most teams below us have invested - Andy Keogh scored for Bristol City at the weekend. Why couldn't we get him? I suspect the percentage of his wages that Wolves were asking for was too high. Indeed, spot on - but I wonder why if they knew there would be no money available they hired such an inexperienced manager in the first place. Maybe because it would get the fans on board, maybe because they thought at that stage more money was to be forthcoming from the investors, maybe they thought Nigel would be good enough (and I'm not saying he isn't or won't be in the long term) or maybe because he was cheap. You refer to when the cost cutting is over - the fear is that once it is we will be self sustainable as a business, but that in turn won't involve any financial input into team affairs and will continue to be a buy-to-sell, balance the books situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretDave Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 That's another problem with Nigel. If he's going on the radio saying that Cywka isn't an intelligent footballer and he can "go back to Wigan or wherever he came from", what's that going to do to his valuation? I think we'd have got a reasonable sum of money for him before he said that, but those comments are certainly going to drop his value. Dropping players values is something that this club can't afford to do at the moment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Indeed, spot on - but I wonder why if they knew there would be no money available they hired such an inexperienced manager in the first place. Maybe because it would get the fans on board, maybe because they thought at that stage more money was to be forthcoming from the investors, maybe they thought Nigel would be good enough (and I'm not saying he isn't or won't be in the long term) or maybe because he was cheap. You refer to when the cost cutting is over - the fear is that once it is we will be self sustainable as a business, but that in turn won't involve any financial input into team affairs and will continue to be a buy-to-sell, balance the books situation And maybe you would not be saying this about anyone NOT named Clough:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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