Israel and Iran...is this a World Game Changer

[Ram-Alf]

https://news.sky.com/story/idf-says-missiles-launched-from-iran-into-israel-13226001

https://news.sky.com/

Edited October 1 by Ram-Alf

[Cisse]

I highly doubt it. They have been fighting there as long as I have lived and will probably continue long time after I will be gone. Sad though that innocent people have to die for politics.

[uttoxram75]

37 minutes ago, Cisse said:

I highly doubt it. They have been fighting there as long as I have lived and will probably continue long time after I will be gone. Sad though that innocent people have to die for oil.

ftfy

[Elwood P Dowd]

You can be sure Israel will retaliate the only question is the extent of the retaliation!!!

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

May be one day a US president will be elected and choose not to support Israel unconditionally and that may change things in the Middle East. But until that happens as another posted said it will carry on and on and on, sadly.

[SSD]

Is Iran technically not just defending itself from attack?

Those countries have been fighting for as long as I can remember. And guess who was involved to start causing this mess 80 years ago? The great British empire. Just like how they completely messed up Pakistan and India's borders.

[Alph]

45 minutes ago, SSD said:

Is Iran technically not just defending itself from attack?

Those countries have been fighting for as long as I can remember. And guess who was involved to start causing this mess 80 years ago? The great British empire. Just like how they completely messed up Pakistan and India's borders.

As somebody who’s supported Palestinians rights for years I would love to say Iran is acting in self defence. 
Iran could claim to be supporting its allies in the same way America, Germany and Britain have been pumping money for Israel’s illegal occupation and ethnic cleansing/genocide. But it’s provided plenty of support for those that have attacked Israel for many years. 
 

The problem is that Israel has no reason to ever show restraint. The AIPAC presidents of America have always got their back and barely even bother to pretend otherwise. They openly threaten the ICC. They openly criticise and use “tools at their disposal” against the UN and ICJ. 
Israel investigates all her own crimes. America is the owner who’s controlled by the dog. There is no law for Israel. The joke that they’re this wonderful democracy and beacon of hope for civilised societies in the Middle East is in bits. Complete impunity. Offended by everything, ashamed of nothing. 
 

This now is a result of many years of failure. Even recently we pass up chances to contain the fighting. We avoided direct war between Iran and Israel after the brief exchange a couple of months back. Iran settled for a telegraphed retaliation (and then worked through Hezbollah). Why Israel have been allowed to take the actions they’re taking in Lebanon these last few weeks is beyond me. America don’t want direct war. Iran don’t either. Good old BiBi said he always wanted a direct threat to Iran. 
 

Also, not just America failing at diplomacy. The Arab states are wishy washy too because some of those don’t want to lose their cute little ties. So when you see them condemning Israel they’re just as full of it as Matthew Miller and John “crocodile tears” Kirby

[Ram-Alf]

15 minutes ago, Alph said:

As somebody who’s supported Palestinians rights for years I would love to say Iran is acting in self defence. 
Iran could claim to be supporting its allies in the same way America, Germany and Britain have been pumping money for Israel’s illegal occupation and ethnic cleansing/genocide. But it’s provided plenty of support for those that have attacked Israel for many years. 
 

The problem is that Israel has no reason to ever show restraint. The AIPAC presidents of America have always got their back and barely even bother to pretend otherwise. They openly threaten the ICC. They openly criticise and use “tools at their disposal” against the UN and ICJ. 
Israel investigates all her own crimes. America is the owner who’s controlled by the dog. There is no law for Israel. The joke that they’re this wonderful democracy and beacon of hope for civilised societies in the Middle East is in bits. Complete impunity. Offended by everything, ashamed of nothing. 
 

This now is a result of many years of failure. Even recently we pass up chances to contain the fighting. We avoided direct war between Iran and Israel after the brief exchange a couple of months back. Iran settled for a telegraphed retaliation (and then worked through Hezbollah). Why Israel have been allowed to take the actions they’re taking in Lebanon these last few weeks is beyond me. America don’t want direct war. Iran don’t either. Good old BiBi said he always wanted a direct threat to Iran. 
 

Also, not just America failing at diplomacy. The Arab states are wishy washy too because some of those don’t want to lose their cute little ties. So when you see them condemning Israel they’re just as full of it as Matthew Miller and John “crocodile tears” Kirby

There's no love lost in the middle east for Israel...we're all aware of that, Lebanon have given Hezbollah rent free accommodation to attack it's enemies, Iran would like to see Israel wiped from the map.

Israel has a big brother in the USA, There's far far far to much Jewish money in the states for any USA President...NOT! to take notice.

This is a catch22, David Vs Goliath, My brother is bigger than your brother, A constant itch that will not go away, But if you scratch it you'll annoy it.

I listened to an ex British Diplomat for Lebanon on Sunday, He says there's "19 different religions in that Country and they manage...just to live in harmony" but a religion that encompasses terror acts(Hezbollah)you have a cuckoos egg in the nest.

So who's the loser in all this...the ordinary citizen that wants to go about their lives in normality...but in time you'll make a terrorist out of them.

I see no end in my lifetime 👎       

[Elwood P Dowd]

14 minutes ago, Ram-Alf said:

There's no love lost in the middle east for Israel...we're all aware of that, Lebanon have given Hezbollah rent free accommodation to attack it's enemies, Iran would like to see Israel wiped from the map.

Israel has a big brother in the USA, There's far far far to much Jewish money in the states for any USA President...NOT! to take notice.

This is a catch22, David Vs Goliath, My brother is bigger than your brother, A constant itch that will not go away, But if you scratch it you'll annoy it.

I listened to an ex British Diplomat for Lebanon on Sunday, He says there's "19 different religions in that Country and they manage...just to live in harmony" but a religion that encompasses terror acts(Hezbollah)you have a cuckoos egg in the nest.

So who's the loser in all this...the ordinary citizen that wants to go about their lives in normality...but in time you'll make a terrorist out of them.

I see no end in my lifetime 👎       

Israel, "If you think you have an answer to the Israel problem you don't understand the question", the issues are so complex and historic.

[Alph]

15 minutes ago, Ram-Alf said:

There's no love lost in the middle east for Israel...we're all aware of that, Lebanon have given Hezbollah rent free accommodation to attack it's enemies, Iran would like to see Israel wiped from the map.

Israel has a big brother in the USA, There's far far far to much Jewish money in the states for any USA President...NOT! to take notice.

This is a catch22, David Vs Goliath, My brother is bigger than your brother, A constant itch that will not go away, But if you scratch it you'll annoy it.

I listened to an ex British Diplomat for Lebanon on Sunday, He says there's "19 different religions in that Country and they manage...just to live in harmony" but a religion that encompasses terror acts(Hezbollah)you have a cuckoos egg in the nest.

So who's the loser in all this...the ordinary citizen that wants to go about their lives in normality...but in time you'll make a terrorist out of them.

I see no end in my lifetime 👎       

“A religion that encompasses terror acts”

That seems wrong to me. Like Hollywood has written the script. The definition of terrorism isn’t applied equally for all. 
Not that I’m about to cheer on Hezbollah. But look what gave birth to them, look what Israel has just done to them and I think we know where it leads. Nasrallah could well look like a peace prize nominee compared to what comes next. Not that I’m suggesting for a second it’s all one way traffic. But every time there’s any chance of putting a lid on this, Israel find a way to escalate and then be the victim. 
The UN, ICJ, ICC… they’re all we have and they’re hit with sanctions and threats and intimidation. Not to mention the ridiculous veto powers. 

[Crewton]

I had great sympathy for Krishnan Guru-Murthy on Channel 4 News yesterday evening. First, he interviewed a retired Israeli General and was subjected to a hysterical rant while trying to ask reasonable questions. Then he interviewed an Iranian professor at Beirut University who he introduced as being "close to the Iranian regime". The prof immediately condemned KGM for using the word "regime" instead of Government, and then childishly kept referring to "the British regime". He also refused to answer reasonable questions, preferring also to rant throughout the exchange, including threats to UK citizens. I thought KGM did really well to stay professional through both "interviews".

Then this morning on Radio 4, Emma Barnett was trying to ask the Israeli Ambassador to the UK reasonable questions about last night's attack and what Israel would do next, but got another tedious rant.

The point of this is that I think our news media are wasting their time trying to get a civil interview with representatives of either party at the moment. There is no inward reflection at all, just a tirade of rhetoric.

I think Israel and Iran are set on a course of actions that will lead to a full blown conflict. Neither America nor the UK will stop trading arms or providing assistance to Israel because Iran's backers will not either. There are no reasonable people in positions of power in either country and "protecting our people" is just a slogan, not their main objective.

[Alph]

4 minutes ago, Crewton said:

I had great sympathy for Krishnan Guru-Murthy on Channel 4 News yesterday evening. First, he interviewed a retired Israeli General and was subjected to a hysterical rant while trying to ask reasonable questions. Then he interviewed an Iranian professor at Beirut University who he introduced as being "close to the Iranian regime". The prof immediately condemned KGM for using the word "regime" instead of Government, and then childishly kept referring to "the British regime". He also refused to answer reasonable questions, preferring also to rant throughout the exchange, including threats to UK citizens. I thought KGM did really well to stay professional through both "interviews".

Then this morning on Radio 4, Emma Barnett was trying to ask the Israeli Ambassador to the UK reasonable questions about last night's attack and what Israel would do next, but got another tedious rant.

The point of this is that I think our news media are wasting their time trying to get a civil interview with representatives of either party at the moment. There is no inward reflection at all, just a tirade of rhetoric.

I think Israel and Iran are set on a course of actions that will lead to a full blown conflict. Neither America nor the UK will stop trading arms or providing assistance to Israel because Iran's backers will not either. There are no reasonable people in positions of power in either country and "protecting our people" is just a slogan, not their main objective.

The ambassador to the UK is that Hotovely woman? Deranged nutcase. 
 

I agree btw. It’s just clickbait stuff now and all it does is push people into ridiculous positions where they defend the indefensible. 
There are many podcast interviews I like to listen to where people want to talk about the factions, driving forces behind the factions, the solutions etc but in the mainstream media it seems to be clickbait hyperbole bs. 

[Stive Pesley]

I'm by no means a scholar of the middle-east political landscape but as an example of the complexities therein - geographically Iraq lies between Iran and Israel, and during the Saddam Hussein years - Iraq hated both Israel and Iran (and of course the US)

By removing Saddam, the US instigated an Iraqi regime that is now largely allied to Iran, and still anti-Israel 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, Elwood P Dowd said:

Israel, "If you think you have an answer to the Israel problem you don't understand the question", the issues are so complex and historic.

I know what happened in 1948 when Britain let the "Jewish" enter/occupy Palestine, I know what happened in the West Bank, I know what happened to Eli Cohen(Mossad Spy), I know what happened in 1967(6 day war) I know the Jewish race have suffered Pogroms for a 1000 years...and yet it still goes on😪 

I don't know how to fix it🤷‍♂️

[Crewton]

2 minutes ago, Alph said:

The ambassador to the UK is that Hotovely woman? Deranged nutcase. 
 

I agree btw. It’s just clickbait stuff now and all it does is push people into ridiculous positions where they defend the indefensible. 
There are many podcast interviews I like to listen to where people want to talk about the factions, driving forces behind the factions, the solutions etc but in the mainstream media it seems to be clickbait hyperbole bs. 

Yeah, that's her - absolute nutter. Kept ranting about "British people could not cope under attack from so many rockets". It's a pity that Emma Barnett didn't remind her of the 9 month long V1 and V2 rocket campaign in 1944/45 which killed thousands of people and injured tens of thousands more, particularly the V2 against which there was no defence. Sure, having to cower in safe rooms and bunkers night after night is no fun, but it was even worse when you knew that a direct hit was a distinct possibility.

They really shouldn't infer that British people don't know what it's like.

[Ram-Alf]

7 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

I'm by no means a scholar of the middle-east political landscape but as an example of the complexities therein - geographically Iraq lies between Iran and Israel, and during the Saddam Hussein years - Iraq hated both Israel and Iran (and of course the US)

By removing Saddam, the US instigated an Iraqi regime that is now largely allied to Iran, and still anti-Israel 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

The USA in my lifetime have gone into Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq...now look what they have left behind 🙄 

[Crewton]

22 minutes ago, Ram-Alf said:

The USA in my lifetime have gone into Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq...now look what they have left behind 🙄 

The Korean War ended in 1953 Alf 😉 and was fought under the banner of the United Nations. The country was already divided by the Allies at the end of WW2 along the 36th Parallel, which became permanent in 1948, 2 years before the war started when the North invaded the South with the backing of Russia and China (including troops on the ground). Can't really pin that one on the Yanks alone.

[Ram-Alf]

21 minutes ago, Crewton said:

The Korean War ended in 1953 Alf 😉 and was fought under the banner of the United Nations. The country was already divided by the Allies at the end of WW2 along the 36th Parallel, which became permanent in 1948, 2 years before the war started when the North invaded the South with the backing of Russia and China (including troops on the ground). Can't really pin that one on the Yanks alone.

Cheers Crewton, I wasn't to sure about the Korean war it seems to have been forgotten or put in the not our fault tray, It's one conflict I've never researched, Only picked it up in M.A.S.H. 😬

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

I'm by no means a scholar of the middle-east political landscape but as an example of the complexities therein - geographically Iraq lies between Iran and Israel, and during the Saddam Hussein years - Iraq hated both Israel and Iran (and of course the US)

By removing Saddam, the US instigated an Iraqi regime that is now largely allied to Iran, and still anti-Israel 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

All down to Sunni and Shia rivalry, although Saddam was an equal opportunities tyrant (he just treated Shi'as worse than his Sunni enemies). Now Iran's proxies are other Shi'a groups (Houthis, Hezbollah), Alawites (Assad) and Sunni groups in conflict with Israel (Hamas). They oppose Al Qaeda and IS because they are fundamentalist Salafist Sunnis who regard Shi'as as heretics to be exterminated. It's basically Europe 1530-1789.

[Mucker1884]

29 minutes ago, Crewton said:

All down to Sunni and Shia rivalry...

First one to mention "I got you babe" gets reported to admin!

I mean it! This is not the place!