Arthur or Jim?

[Jimbo Ram]

Who had the better team, which team was better to watch and who achieved more?

Arthur shades it for me. Loved Shilts, Mark Wright at the height of his career, Goddard and Saunders a wonderful striking partnership and the Tin Man working his magic on the wing. Arthur took us from the third division to the top 6 and the fringes of Europe. The BE did great too but not quite as good as Arthur.

[Crewton]

5 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Who had the better team, which team was better to watch and who achieved more?

Arthur shades it for me. Loved Shilts, Mark Wright at the height of his career, Goddard and Saunders a wonderful striking partnership and the Tin Man working his magic on the wing. Arthur took us from the third division to the top 6 and the fringes of Europe. The BE did great too but not quite as good as Arthur.

I think Arthur achieved more and, whilst there was plenty of skill in his teams, the football played by Jim's 1996-99 team was the most enjoyable imo.

[therealhantsram]

Arthur achieved more. Jim's team at it's peak was better to watch.

Arthur's team was a battling team. I would actually liken many of Arthur's teams performances in Div 1 to the performance we saw yesterday. 

[Day]

Jim Smith was my era, my man, always will be. Whilst we didn't reach the same heights some of you older lot have seen where even the TV screens were black & white, it will always be a special period for myself and I would imagine fans around my age.

I was 15, first season ticket in the North upper, Pride Park opened, took my mum to see the Queen get driven around the perimeter. 

Poom, Laursen, Stimac, Eranio, Baiano, Wanchope dear me what would I give to see that team again in it's prime competing with the likes of United, Arsenal, Liverpool and not embarrassing ourselves.

Cox memories more sketchy, little bit younger, mostly listening on the radio with trips to The Baseball Ground were sporadic, as and when my cousins couldn't make it we would take their season ticket. 

[NottsRam]

I hold both of them in equally high esteem.  Being just too young to see the Clough and Mackay sides, Arthur and Jim gave me our only real successes.  Both did amazing jobs early on and things went south later on (as they usually do) but at their peaks both of their teams were good to watch.  More flair in the Jim Smith sides of the late 90's but Arthurs team that finished high in the old first division gave us some wonderful days too.

[MaltRam]

Jim Smith's team felt like it organically peaked. For two seasons we were genuinely good, then the imagination and money seemed to run out a bit and Steve Mac left.

Arthur's team had the battling 5th place finish and at that point the strings were cut by fat Bob when a splurge on 3 new players at that point (£3m?) would have been transformative. We had some great players dragging up a dogged team...we could have been contenders if we'd been allowed to build.

I'd say Jim's team was the better watch, but Arthur's had the higher ceiling relative to it's peers.

[ilkleyram]

I've been really lucky in my footballing life  - I've seen all our teams and managers since the mid 60's.  It's a period of success and failure the like of which we will never see again, the success side of it that is, just because football as a whole now makes that impossible.

To answer the question, it's Jim's side for me.  Jim probably wouldn't/couldn't have achieved what Arthur achieved - dragging and rebuilding a struggling club from Division 3 to the top of Division 1, but that side was largely built in Arthur's persona, certainly at the start  - dour at times, functional, practical, with stardust only in its latter year.  Jim's side was built in his shadow - alternative, sparkly, quirky. 

Jim had Lionel; Arthur had the Maxwells.  Jim was the more fortunate.  Both delivered success; both properly well loved by those of us lucky enough to go through both eras

[jimbo jones]

Too young to properly remember Cox’s team, the Bald Eagle was my guy, the team I look back on with great fondness and hope I see the likes of again.

[BaianoPOTY98]

1 hour ago, Day said:

Jim Smith was my era, my man, always will be. Whilst we didn't reach the same heights some of you older lot have seen where even the TV screens were black & white, it will always be a special period for myself and I would imagine fans around my age.

I was 15, first season ticket in the North upper, Pride Park opened, took my mum to see the Queen get driven around the perimeter. 

Poom, Laursen, Stimac, Eranio, Baiano, Wanchope dear me what would I give to see that team again in it's prime competing with the likes of United, Arsenal, Liverpool and not embarrassing ourselves.

Cox memories more sketchy, little bit younger, mostly listening on the radio with trips to The Baseball Ground were sporadic, as and when my cousins couldn't make it we would take their season ticket. 

Smith for me too, I had the exact same memories of the Smith era, was playing football myself during the Cox days so didnt get to the games very often.

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

They are both my era(s).

The Smith team would have beaten comfortably the Cox team imo if they were to play each other.

But the pre-pl era was a bit more “pure” and enjoyable (and fair) so I liked the Cox era probably a bit more. At this stage you could imagine wining the league still.

 

[IslandExile]

What a brilliant question.

My answer would categorically, without any doubt whatsoever, be.... Jim, no Arthur, no Jim, no Arthur. Argh!!!

[1of4]

For me, Jim probably just edged it. Though I do think after McClaren left, Jim's teams started to decline. 

[We'll be back in 81]

For me it is Arthur, could have been champions of England again if we had got those to two Czechs in, knew how to put a balanced team together. 

Jims team had some great individual players like Poom, Igor, Eranio and Whanchop, great to watch.

Hope Warne can match them, it's going in the right direction.

[Kathcairns]

49 minutes ago, We'll be back in 81 said:

For me it is Arthur, could have been champions of England again if we had got those to two Czechs in, knew how to put a balanced team together. 

Jims team had some great individual players like Poom, Igor, Eranio and Whanchop, great to watch.

Hope Warne can match them, it's going in the right direction.

Didnt watch much of cox's team because of family commitments, but started to go again  near the end. Got to admit didnt want jim, thought we wanted someone younger and more modern, but boy was i wrong. Loved watching his team. Took my youngest son then and thats when he started to love the rams, through watching that team.

[Wistaston Ram]

I had the pleasure of enjoying both manager's teams, but probably appreciated Arthur's tenure most. It was my first taste of success as a Derby fan after a barren decade (my first game was in 1976).  I missed a fair bit of Jim's time at Derby, living in Aberdeen and seeing them mainly on telly. Probably a better team than Arthurs' with the excellent foreign buys, just wish I could have seen more of that era in the flesh.

[Grumpy Git]

2 hours ago, 1of4 said:

.....................................Though I do think after McClaren left, Jim's teams started to decline. 

Whether it was pure coincidence or not, this is 100% on the money

[StaffsRam]

Love the TBE era, but for me it's Arthur's lot. I started following Derby the year we were promoted from the second tier to the first, so that's the side I grew up with and the benchmark I hold every other Derby team against. Saunders and Goddard is still the pinnacle front-pairing during my fandom, and George Williams is still one of the best midfielders we've had in that time too.

 

[Jimbo Ram]

3 hours ago, Dean (hick) Saunders said:

They are both my era(s).

The Smith team would have beaten comfortably the Cox team imo if they were to play each other.

But the pre-pl era was a bit more “pure” and enjoyable (and fair) so I liked the Cox era probably a bit more. At this stage you could imagine wining the league still.

 

Not so sure about that. The 88/89 team that finished 5th, beat Spuds, Villa, Newcastle, Man Utd and the Gooners on the road, was the best Rams team I have seen. Mark Wright and Dean Saunders absolutely outstanding. Saunders probably the best striker I have seen in a 🐏 shirt.

[DB83]

I will basically echo what others on here have said… I’m just too young to remember the Cox era, but you cannot doubt his achievements… basically taking us from League One into Europe, in today’s parlance.

Smith got us promoted in his first season though, and the next two or three seasons for me were magical. Stimac, Laursen, Asanovic, Wanchope, Eranio, Baiano, Sturridge, etc (plus also van de Laan, Yates, Powell (both of them), and other perhaps “lesser known” names (alas I cannot include Poom, because of his Sunderland equaliser)). The Wanchope goal at Old Trafford is a lifetime highlight for sure.

I was so sad that those Smith teams ultimately fell short of Europe, because I really though that could have been our time (the 0-4 against Leicester, for example, was so disheartening for me). But we were semi-routinely beating top teams home and away during those years, which now seems nothing short of miraculous. Manchester City were nothing in those days, compared to the mighty Rams.

So for me, while Cox probably clinches it on actual achievement, Smith at his peak might well win on flair and style.

Edited September 4 by DB83

[Igorwasking]

Started following the Rams under Arthur. It was THAT season that created my personal link to Rotherham (small world Mr Warne)! But TBE was a special period. All the flair of our European heavy weight players, added to be the likes of Christie and Riggot. Beating Man Utd 3-2. Really thought we would be a power house for decades.

doubt I will see anything similar again - and I’m only 51!