Investment

[therealhantsram]

15 minutes ago, popside72 said:

 

my own view is that we need to reach  a position where we can be promoted, and stand a chance of PL survival

I used to think like this, but when you look at what's happening to the promoted teams this season, even this is a pipe dream. 

The model in the future is going to need to be, get promoted, buy a whole new team. 😟

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

4 hours ago, Nuwtfly said:

I would imagine that if someone were looking to invest the kind of money we need to climb up the division, they would want full control. Perhaps I’m naive to how these things work but why would someone want to buy a majority stake in something and not call the shots?

The Glazers majority own United but don't run it. Can't think of many other examples though.

[jono]

4 hours ago, DCFC Kicks said:

But the reality is it’s a gamble that often works. Look at the number of current PL clubs who gambled and it worked. What’s the alternative way? Be like Luton and have one season there where instant relegation is almost inevitable? I hate it but that’s how it is.

Luton are pretty much chuffed to bits. PL adventure = New stadium paid for. Aiming to be solid champ club. It’s about expectations 

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, jono said:

Luton are pretty much chuffed to bits. PL adventure = New stadium paid for. Aiming to be solid champ club. It’s about expectations 

Why else do it if not to win, or at least try to be the best? I wonder what the Wrexham fans think, what a ride?

[Ghost of Clough]

34 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

I used to think like this, but when you look at what's happening to the promoted teams this season, even this is a pipe dream. 

The model in the future is going to need to be, get promoted, buy a whole new team. 😟

The newly promoted sides had quite poor defences by Championship standards last season. Leicester being best, conceding 41, whilst Southampton conceded a massive 63.

The season before, 3 sides conceded fewer than 41, whilst only 5 sides conceded more than 63, with only 1 above 20th place.

I think a team built on a solid defence (sub-40 conceded) but still scoring 80+ would have a decent basis to build a PL team off. You'd still be looking at 15 signings with at least 7bof those being starters. The question is which approach you take to signings. It could be the Ipswich approach to signing young players (good chance of making a profit upon relegation), or you have a very good quality player for an instant return). Or you can take a more experienced approach, which would be less financially rewarding, but arguably give you a higher chance of survival.

Either way, I think the money has to be lined up prior to promotion. £100m arguably being the minimum budget to have a serious chance of staying up. Luton's £25m budget only earned them 26 points, so whilst they 'gave it a good go', they were still considerably wayoff the pace compared to a normal season.

[RoyMac5]

44 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

...Either way, I think the money has to be lined up prior to promotion. £100m arguably being the minimum budget to have a serious chance of staying up. Luton's £25m budget only earned them 26 points, so whilst they 'gave it a good go', they were still considerably wayoff the pace compared to a normal season.

But if they went back up using their parachute payments, then what? That's more of a 'long view' that might make sense?

Edited Wednesday at 19:06 by RoyMac5

[HorsforthRam]

What is truly our potential? We have a 33k stadium and the home capacity has been filled a few times recently? Posters always say “30k” each week but it’s really about 27k/28k. This might sound pedantic but the likes of the Dirties have 26k waiting list for STs and are planning to expand their ground to 53k. The dogs are planning to expand to 50k. Granted our population is a lot smaller than those two but i wonder where we top out…

[Ghost of Clough]

10 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

But if they went back up using their parachute payments, then what? That's more of a 'long view' that might make sense?

Haven't they already 'spent' the parachute money on their new stadium?

Obviously that wouldn't apply to us, but do you deliberately go for the yo-yo approach like Norwich, or invest more during that first season in an attempt to stay up?

If we managed to go up this season, I'd imagine we'd spend less than £50m. A few experienced PL players on frees at the back like Craig Dawson, Michael Keane, Lascelles ans Nathaniel Clyne. A couple of top quality loans from the top sides. A couple of upcoming youngsters for £10-15m like Tyler Morton and Jaden Philogene who are currently top end Championship standard but won't break through to be regulars at their clubs. Plus a few players from abroad  with a couple of those being free agents such as Sem Steijn.

Would that be good enough?

[Ghost of Clough]

13 minutes ago, HorsforthRam said:

What is truly our potential? We have a 33k stadium and the home capacity has been filled a few times recently? Posters always say “30k” each week but it’s really about 27k/28k. This might sound pedantic but the likes of the Dirties have 26k waiting list for STs and are planning to expand their ground to 53k. The dogs are planning to expand to 50k. Granted our population is a lot smaller than those two but i wonder where we top out…

We haven't dropped below 23k since ]moving into Pride Park. Forest have achieved 23k+ 14 times out of 26 over the same period. Saying that, our 'potential' is and always will be on par with them.

Their 50k seater stadium is just like our potential 44k expansion. Likely to sell a high proportion of seats when in the PL, but a lot of empty seats when in the Championship. History says we'll spend half our time in each division, so it's down to the money men to make the decision on whether an expansion/build is worth the money. As time goes on, the answer is more likely to become 'yes' due to stadiums becoming outdated over time - Forest's being extremely outdated by this point.

[RoyMac5]

24 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

...but do you deliberately go for the yo-yo approach like Norwich, or invest more during that first season in an attempt to stay up?

If we managed to go up this season, I'd imagine we'd spend less than £50m. A few experienced PL players on frees at the back like Craig Dawson, Michael Keane, Lascelles ans Nathaniel Clyne. A couple of top quality loans from the top sides. A couple of upcoming youngsters for £10-15m like Tyler Morton and Jaden Philogene who are currently top end Championship standard but won't break through to be regulars at their clubs. Plus a few players from abroad  with a couple of those being free agents such as Sem Steijn.

Would that be good enough?

Impossible to say. Can't say I'd be willing to gamble on the quality of our transfer/academy strategy so far.

Edited Wednesday at 19:59 by RoyMac5

[kevinhectoring]

3 hours ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

The Glazers majority own United but don't run it. Can't think of many other examples though.

Was a perfect deal for the Glazers though. They didn’t get a big enough offer for them to sell the whole club but the heat they were getting from the fans was a real problem. Now Ratcliffe has responsibility for football matters so he’ll get the blame if their fortunes don’t change.  

[therealhantsram]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

A couple of top quality loans from the top sides. 

Loans not allowed in the Premier League (unless the rules changed recently).

Edit.

I just checked the rule book and apparently 2 loans are allowed. What do I know huh?

Edited Wednesday at 21:02 by therealhantsram

[LeedsCityRam]

1 hour ago, HorsforthRam said:

What is truly our potential? We have a 33k stadium and the home capacity has been filled a few times recently? Posters always say “30k” each week but it’s really about 27k/28k. This might sound pedantic but the likes of the Dirties have 26k waiting list for STs and are planning to expand their ground to 53k. The dogs are planning to expand to 50k. Granted our population is a lot smaller than those two but i wonder where we top out…

Wasnt so long ago Leeds couldn't even get 26k at Elland Road let alone 26k season ticket waiting list!! Im always very sceptical of their claims, they're desperate to project an image of strength to non-Leeds fans when reality is their support is very fickle & they know that only too well. Remember their club shop closing in town 15 years ago due to poor sales & their top tier East Stand effectively being mothballed around that time. Derby's support by contrast held up despite dropping down 2 divisions in past 15 seasons. Meanwhile Forest talking about 50k capacity is so open to ridicule, its untrue.

Our potential? We averaged 27k both seasons in League One with many half empty away ends at PP. Thats a great foundation & with the inevitable added interest a PL team would generate, I think the long mooted 44k capacity would suit us fine as a top end. I also believe our location & strong identity as Rams (not just Derby) would make us interesting to broader foreign markets & offer potential tie ins with teams with similar identities should we become a consistent Prem side (LA Rams most obvious)

Edited Wednesday at 21:13 by LeedsCityRam

[Eoghan1884]

3 hours ago, HorsforthRam said:

What is truly our potential? We have a 33k stadium and the home capacity has been filled a few times recently? Posters always say “30k” each week but it’s really about 27k/28k. This might sound pedantic but the likes of the Dirties have 26k waiting list for STs and are planning to expand their ground to 53k. The dogs are planning to expand to 50k. Granted our population is a lot smaller than those two but i wonder where we top out…

You’d be absolutely amazed how much “die hard” fans come out of the woodwork when a teams promoted or doing well. The fact our attendances are what they are while we’ve been in league one is more telling in my opinions.

[jono]

11 hours ago, HorsforthRam said:

What is truly our potential? We have a 33k stadium and the home capacity has been filled a few times recently? Posters always say “30k” each week but it’s really about 27k/28k. This might sound pedantic but the likes of the Dirties have 26k waiting list for STs and are planning to expand their ground to 53k. The dogs are planning to expand to 50k. Granted our population is a lot smaller than those two but i wonder where we top out…

Despite dreaming of glory I remain a realist in serious conversations. We are a large well supported club by small city standards. We have had a legendary golden era and some purple patches along the way; but how much of our existence have we really spent in the top tier since 1884 or perhaps post war ? (as a more accurate reflection of the modern game)

Post WW2  we have probably spent 70% of our time below the top flight. We may see and want ourselves to be a Prem Club. That’s the eternal hope, but the reality is that we are a well supported 2nd tier club with dreams and ambitions of competing in the big time. We aren’t over performing, we can do better, but there is an argument to say we are at the level those with our  DNA usually obtain ? Premier League adventures are possible but they seem destined to remain occasional flirtations. ?

[Gerry Daly]

16 minutes ago, jono said:

Despite dreaming of glory I remain a realist in serious conversations. We are a large well supported club by small city standards. We have had a legendary golden era and some purple patches along the way; but how much of our existence have we really spent in the top tier since 1884 or perhaps post war ? (as a more accurate reflection of the modern game)

Post WW2  we have probably spent 70% of our time below the top flight. We may see and want ourselves to be a Prem Club. That’s the eternal hope, but the reality is that we are a well supported 2nd tier club with dreams and ambitions of competing in the big time. We aren’t over performing, we can do better, but there is an argument to say we are at the level those with our  DNA usually obtain ? Premier League adventures are possible but they seem destined to remain occasional flirtations. ?

Our support doesn't just come from Derby. We have a very large population within a 20 mile radius of Derby City centre and only have Forest, Notts County and Burton to compete with. We can certainly be a premiership club if Bournemouth, Burnley and Brentford can be( just sticking with the B's to illustrate the point) We just need a few years of consistent good management in the Boardroom and some reasonable investment plus a good manager. I think we have all of those ingredients now minus perhaps the investment which is what this thread is about   

Edited yesterday at 07:50 by Gerry Daly

[Ghost of Clough]

17 minutes ago, jono said:

Despite dreaming of glory I remain a realist in serious conversations. We are a large well supported club by small city standards. We have had a legendary golden era and some purple patches along the way; but how much of our existence have we really spent in the top tier since 1884 or perhaps post war ? (as a more accurate reflection of the modern game)

Post WW2  we have probably spent 70% of our time below the top flight. We may see and want ourselves to be a Prem Club. That’s the eternal hope, but the reality is that we are a well supported 2nd tier club with dreams and ambitions of competing in the big time. We aren’t over performing, we can do better, but there is an argument to say we are at the level those with our  DNA usually obtain ? Premier League adventures are possible but they seem destined to remain occasional flirtations. ?

This probably answers your question

[MadAmster]

18 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

I don’t think anyone will buy 80% of the club to leave DC running it.  He’s talking about remaining as chairman. imo he’d be chairman of a board stacked with nominees of the majority owners 

Agreed. I don't see anybody buying 80% of the shares without 80% of the stadium being included.

[Inverurie Ram]

11 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Wasnt so long ago Leeds couldn't even get 26k at Elland Road let alone 26k season ticket waiting list!! Im always very sceptical of their claims, they're desperate to project an image of strength to non-Leeds fans when reality is their support is very fickle & they know that only too well. Remember their club shop closing in town 15 years ago due to poor sales & their top tier East Stand effectively being mothballed around that time. Derby's support by contrast held up despite dropping down 2 divisions in past 15 seasons. Meanwhile Forest talking about 50k capacity is so open to ridicule, its untrue.

Our potential? We averaged 27k both seasons in League One with many half empty away ends at PP. Thats a great foundation & with the inevitable added interest a PL team would generate, I think the long mooted 44k capacity would suit us fine as a top end. I also believe our location & strong identity as Rams (not just Derby) would make us interesting to broader foreign markets & offer potential tie ins with teams with similar identities should we become a consistent Prem side (LA Rams most obvious)

Absolutely @LeedsCityRam

Don’t be fooled by these clubs.

Only 1 club that matters.

Up The Rams 🐏

[Eoghan1884]

11 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Wasnt so long ago Leeds couldn't even get 26k at Elland Road let alone 26k season ticket waiting list!! Im always very sceptical of their claims, they're desperate to project an image of strength to non-Leeds fans when reality is their support is very fickle & they know that only too well. Remember their club shop closing in town 15 years ago due to poor sales & their top tier East Stand effectively being mothballed around that time. Derby's support by contrast held up despite dropping down 2 divisions in past 15 seasons. Meanwhile Forest talking about 50k capacity is so open to ridicule, its untrue.

Our potential? We averaged 27k both seasons in League One with many half empty away ends at PP. Thats a great foundation & with the inevitable added interest a PL team would generate, I think the long mooted 44k capacity would suit us fine as a top end. I also believe our location & strong identity as Rams (not just Derby) would make us interesting to broader foreign markets & offer potential tie ins with teams with similar identities should we become a consistent Prem side (LA Rams most obvious)

Americans love on brand empires so LA Rams owners being the owners of Derby who are known as the rams would be a lightbulb moment for them. Problem is, the Kroenkes own it an they also own Arsenal so cannot own another club in england.