Investment

[Eoghan1884]

Be very surprised if an American or multiple American businessmen/consortiums weren’t looking into us. Americans seem to be more and more interested into getting into the English leagues. 

Taking bias out of it. If you look for clubs outside the prem with category 1 academies, premier league standard stadium and training facilities, a modern data driven scouting system, minimal debt, over 20 thousand season tickets and sold out away ends all over the country you end up with around 3/4 clubs maximum. We are one of those clubs and with the right money and David clowes still involved who’s set up a great infrastructure with minimal finance in comparison to some clubs you really could be on to a massive winner. 

 

[Animal is a Ram]

 

[Topram]

25 minutes ago, Animal is a Ram said:

 

Followed up by saying a property business aren’t quite in pole postion as he said last night on radio derby 

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

I trust Clowes to find either the right investment, or continue to run the club sustainably within his own means until such a time the right investment/new owner is identified.

I certainly trust him with this task far more than I trusted Mel when it became apparent he wanted out. Mel was from the world of venture capitalism and angel investing, which is ultimately a form of incredibly expensive and risky gambling. With that in mind the kind of profile for a suitable investor Mel had is/was very different to Clowes.

[RoyMac5]

Same stuff rehashed.

[Simmo’s left foot]

What I find amazing is that many fans still think that having wealthy owners who will throw money at football clubs, and constantly allow them to run at a sometimes vast loss is the way forward.

I think every club should be made to run within its means, any declared trading loss (ie more cash out than in) Should be an immediate points deduction both in the current season and the next two seasons also. Lets get serious about it.

If football was run this way there would be no need for wealthy owners on an ego trip.

Lets face it, "investment" is never going to create any sort of return in today's football world. We could lose a large amount, gain promotion and then still need more to make good the vast losses made in the premier league. Why? basically because players are paid way too much, and ridiculous transfer fees, which are lost at the end of the contract when a players moves for free.

So wage cap, squad size cap, and no trading losses allowed. Plus some transfer value allowed on a player at the end of a contract. Easy...

[DCFC Kicks]

17 minutes ago, Simmo’s left foot said:

What I find amazing is that many fans still think that having wealthy owners who will throw money at football clubs, and constantly allow them to run at a sometimes vast loss is the way forward.

But the reality is it’s a gamble that often works. Look at the number of current PL clubs who gambled and it worked. What’s the alternative way? Be like Luton and have one season there where instant relegation is almost inevitable? I hate it but that’s how it is.

[tomsdubs]

30 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

But the reality is it’s a gamble that often works. Look at the number of current PL clubs who gambled and it worked. What’s the alternative way? Be like Luton and have one season there where instant relegation is almost inevitable? I hate it but that’s how it is.

The teams that do it on cheap the vast majority of the time come back down, have to agree when you look at it you need that owner with silly money to waste. Forest barely managed it even with spending so much they breached FFP. There are outliers sure but the trend is fairly apparent.

[Nuwtfly]

I would imagine that if someone were looking to invest the kind of money we need to climb up the division, they would want full control. Perhaps I’m naive to how these things work but why would someone want to buy a majority stake in something and not call the shots?

Edited Wednesday at 13:42 by Nuwtfly

[MadAmster]

In Holland, every club has to present their budget for the coming season. If it's not heavily based on facts and is believable then they don't get their licence to compete. The idea is to NOT make a loss. Losses are allowed. However, when a club makes a loss, their next budget has to include concrete and utterly feasible steps to reduce the debt down to zero inside 3 or 4 years. Again, failure to deliver a believable budget will lead to a loss of licence to compete.

Vitesse ran into financial difficulties and, eventually, found a buyer who wiped the debt out. They had an awful season last season and finished bottom. Like our recent past, players left and were replaced by very much inferior players as there was no cash for transfers and wage offers were anything but high. They finished bottom. 6 wins, 6 draws but an 18 point deduction saw them end up on -6 points, 23 short of safety. They also started this season on -6, confirmed yesterday which saw then tumble from 9th, just 4 points off 2nd, to 19th of 20.

On social media I keep reading posts form fans which show that they have zero grip on reality. Posts like they'd be OK accepting someone else having 80% of the shares as long as "David Clowes was still the owner". 

[kevinhectoring]

18 hours ago, Andicis said:

Won't Clowes still own the stadium? So even if he only owns 20% of the shares, that is likely another influencing factor. 

I don’t think anyone will buy 80% of the club to leave DC running it.  He’s talking about remaining as chairman. imo he’d be chairman of a board stacked with nominees of the majority owners 

[jimtastic56]

1 hour ago, DCFC Kicks said:

But the reality is it’s a gamble that often works. Look at the number of current PL clubs who gambled and it worked. What’s the alternative way? Be like Luton and have one season there where instant relegation is almost inevitable? I hate it but that’s how it is.

Mike Ashley blew £100 to get Newcastle back in the Prem . Florists only spent £45 mill on loans to get out the Championship , as the had a stream of players coming through the academy that they got good money for , or played . Getting a couple of £mill for the likes of Bird is not going to help us . Burnley got 100 pts in the Champ , spent £100 mill and still came straight back. The crux of the matter is that £200 mill is peanuts in todays “Beautiful game “. 

[Tyler Durden]

What would be the attraction of a third party coming in to the club and basically putting their own money in to subsidise our annual losses under the guise of investment?

What return on their money would they expect to get anywhere near putting their money into the club? It's not like it's a Glaser Man Utd scenario where we turn a massive operating profit every year which can then be skimmed off to line the investors money?

[Gerry Daly]

4 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

What would be the attraction of a third party coming in to the club and basically putting their own money in to subsidise our annual losses under the guise of investment?

What return on their money would they expect to get anywhere near putting their money into the club? It's not like it's a Glaser Man Utd scenario where we turn a massive operating profit every year which can then be skimmed off to line the investors money?

One assumes getting the club into the Premier league which is a pot of gold

[Loughborough Ram]

The target of any investor would surely be to sell at a massive profit as a stable Premiership club, sometime in the future. All this talk of annual losses and the futility of owning a championship Club would be a complete non problem to a long term investor.

Anybody putting money is of course, taking a gamble on a long term investment, but that is what a lot of the people in the financial position to own a football club, do for a living.

[Tyler Durden]

14 minutes ago, Gerry Daly said:

One assumes getting the club into the Premier league which is a pot of gold

It's totally skewed and a pot of money for the privileged in their own clique 

[silverback]

16 hours ago, Eoghan1884 said:

Be very surprised if an American or multiple American businessmen/consortiums weren’t looking into us. Americans seem to be more and more interested into getting into the English leagues. 

Taking bias out of it. If you look for clubs outside the prem with category 1 academies, premier league standard stadium and training facilities, a modern data driven scouting system, minimal debt, over 20 thousand season tickets and sold out away ends all over the country you end up with around 3/4 clubs maximum. We are one of those clubs and with the right money and David clowes still involved who’s set up a great infrastructure with minimal finance in comparison to some clubs you really could be on to a massive winner. 

 

Sold...where do I sign?✍️

[scout's dad]

As long as it’s not this lot…

[jono]

2 hours ago, Simmo’s left foot said:

What I find amazing is that many fans still think that having wealthy owners who will throw money at football clubs, and constantly allow them to run at a sometimes vast loss is the way forward.

I think every club should be made to run within its means, any declared trading loss (ie more cash out than in) Should be an immediate points deduction both in the current season and the next two seasons also. Lets get serious about it.

If football was run this way there would be no need for wealthy owners on an ego trip.

Lets face it, "investment" is never going to create any sort of return in today's football world. We could lose a large amount, gain promotion and then still need more to make good the vast losses made in the premier league. Why? basically because players are paid way too much, and ridiculous transfer fees, which are lost at the end of the contract when a players moves for free.

So wage cap, squad size cap, and no trading losses allowed. Plus some transfer value allowed on a player at the end of a contract. Easy...

You can’t “demand” a business makes a profit. It just isn’t practical. Most champ clubs would be deducted points which makes points deductions well errrrm pointless. What you can do is state that borrowings cannot be secured against the key assets of the club. (Stadia, club name, training ground. ) So if it all goes wrong the entity that is the club remains standing. 

[popside72]

I agree with those who say this is being blown out of all proportion.

Every football club now is up for sale at the right price.

To become a PL force again will require significant Champ investment, and  then again in the PL. Look at what Villa have had to do to return, then prosper.

my own view is that we need to reach  a position where we can be promoted, and stand a chance of PL survival, but that beyond that the charabanc has moved on for clubs like ours.