Jump to content

What Rams player was worth the most in their peak?


Bob The Badger

Recommended Posts

14 minutes ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

What were Colin’s weaknesses in your eyes ?
Lack of caps had a lot to do with less international fixtures , not qualifying for the 1974 World Cup and a certain Ex Leeds Manager running England and picking his favs Hunter and Madeley if my memory is correct. 

100% agree. It was almost as though Revie played him at full back to say he'd played him when he didn't want to, so he could then drop him  

My memory could be playing tricks, but wasn't he the first 'northern' player to win the journalists player of the year in the same season as players player of the year?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

What were Colin’s weaknesses in your eyes ?
Lack of caps had a lot to do with less international fixtures , not qualifying for the 1974 World Cup and a certain Ex Leeds Manager running England and picking his favs Hunter and Madeley if my memory is correct. 

Reggie, I don’t want to get into a great debate on this as Todd at his peak - 71/75 - I would have only been 10-14 years old. Great footballer, big hero, but in my opinion not truly exceptional - particularly in terms of heading (height disadvantage) and sometimes positioning (although he made up for that with his speed of recovery). He would be a truly great CDM nowadays.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Todd is literally the best player I've ever seen with Charlie a close second. 

His lack of caps was largely down to being played out of position and his face not fitting. 

I tend to agree on King Kev, but not sure what Toddy's weaknesses were. 

Todd and Nish both set records but you don't think they'd get half of what Grealish went for?

I think you misinterpret my personal valuation of Grealish with that of Guardiola (who was rinsed at £117m).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Some good old partisan bias going on here. £87m is the record fee for a defender ever and we have Colin Todd being pitched at a cool £100m. Great player, but not exceptional - had some weaknesses hence perhaps the number of his international caps.
Kevin Hector similarly would never have been a £100m footballer in my book although someone thought Grealish actually was. The only player on our books who I think might have fetched £50m plus at his peak was Shilton. World class Keeper. 

The thread is about how good the player was while playing for Derby. By the time Shilton arrived, great though he had been, he was well past his best. Of all the 'keepers I have watched at Derby since 1961, I would put Shilts behind Reg Matthews, Colin Boulton and Mart Poom based solely on their displays for the Rams.

Did you ever see McFarland play for Derby in the first half of the 70s? If you did, I am amazed that you would even think that Peter Taylor, me and many others who watched him were hostages to partisan bias. We paid £225k to beat the British transfer record for David Nish in 1972. Nish justified that at the time but he was worth less than half of what McFarland would have fetched had Derby made him available. As someone has already said, McFarland was priceless. He really was that good.

So, I'm sticking with Peter Taylor on that one and Cloughie felt the same.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Bob The Badger said:

TBF, that can be down to individual styles. Ronnie Webster said he found Ken Wagstaff the hardest player he cam up against

Not Ken from Hull but David Wagstaff the Wolves winger, who always troubled Ron. Wagstaff was good but never played for England because Ramsey didn't play wingers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

The thread is about how good the player was while playing for Derby. By the time Shilton arrived, great though he had been, he was well past his best. Of all the 'keepers I have watched at Derby since 1961, I would put Shilts behind Reg Matthews, Colin Boulton and Mart Poom based solely on their displays for the Rams.

Did you ever see McFarland play for Derby in the first half of the 70s? If you did, I am amazed that you would even think that Peter Taylor, me and many others who watched him were hostages to partisan bias. We paid £225k to beat the British transfer record for David Nish in 1972. Nish justified that at the time but he was worth less than half of what McFarland would have fetched had Derby made him available. As someone has already said, McFarland was priceless. He really was that good.

So, I'm sticking with Peter Taylor on that one and Cloughie felt the same.

In truth I am guilty of not reading the full question by Badger. I was only intending to be online for 10 minutes so was fiicking through topics. Agree on your point re. Shilts. I thought we were commenting on Rams Players values at their peak (not necessarily with Derby). As a 10-15 year old at the time of the core era for the Club, limited to Star Soccer viewing, I am ill equipped to make strong arguments either way on McFarland, Todd or Nish. Their international records though, pre-Revie, would suggest that they were good, very good, but not exceptional. I value your opinion on McFarland ?

Going to spend afternoon with family now. HAPPY NEW YEAR all you Rams.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

The thread is about how good the player was while playing for Derby. By the time Shilton arrived, great though he had been, he was well past his best. Of all the 'keepers I have watched at Derby since 1961, I would put Shilts behind Reg Matthews, Colin Boulton and Mart Poom based solely on their displays for the Rams.

 

What!!!, No John Middleton Ending New Year GIF by Looney Tunes

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Boycie said:

I’m surprised no big clubs came in for any of the Derby 70’s stars. We’d be able tell  the comparison to nowadays I guess?

Did Charlie George see out his contract or did he go for a fee? Or was he passed his best when we signed him?

We were the big club in those halcyon days Well Done Applause GIF by MOODMAN

His injury pretty much sealed his fate, A few loans and maybe some loot involved, I'll never forget the hattrick Vs Real Madrid ? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Boycie said:

I’m surprised no big clubs came in for any of the Derby 70’s stars. We’d be able tell  the comparison to nowadays I guess?

Did Charlie George see out his contract or did he go for a fee? Or was he passed his best when we signed him?

No other clubs came in for our stars at the time because neither Brian Clough nor Dave Mackay would sell them and at the time we were THE big club alongside Leeds and Liverpool. I think it's a fact that no player asked to leave Derby while Clough and Mackay were managers here. There was no better place to be for them.

Charlie George was at his peak when he signed for Derby as he proved by his performances in 1975-76. We got him for a bargain £100k because he and Bertie Mee had fallen out at Arsenal and simply wanted to be rid of each other - Mee hadn't been playing him which lessened his value in the shop window, to our advantage. The Arsenal fans were apoplectic about Charlie leaving because he really was their darling. They never forgave Bertie Mee and nor did Charlie.

When he left he went to Southampton for £400k, a record fee between two British clubs, although Kevin Keegan had left Liverpool for SV Hamburg for £500k. The Southampton doctor advised Lawrie McMenemy not sign Charlie because his knees were damaged. The good doctor proved to be right and Charlie never hit the heights he achieved at Arsenal and Derby.

Edited by Brailsford Ram
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

No other clubs came in for our stars at the time because neither Brian Clough nor Dave Mackay would sell them and at the time we were THE big club alongside Leeds and Liverpool.

Charlie George was at his peak when he signed for Derby as he proved by his performances in 1975-76. We got him for a bargain £100k because he and Bertie Mee had fallen out at Arsenal and simply wanted to be rid of each other - Mee hadn't been playing him which lessened his value in the shop window, to our advantage. The Arsenal fans were apoplectic about Charlie leaving because he really was their darling. They never forgave Bertie Mee.

When he left he went to Southampton for £400k, a record fee between two British clubs, although Kevin Keegan had left Liverpool for SV Hamburg for £500k. The Southampton doctor advised Lawrie McMenemy not sign Charlie because his knees were damaged. The good doctor proved to be right and Charlie never hit the heights he achieved at Arsenal and Derby.

Wasn’t Charlie on the verge of going to Spurs when Dave Mackay stepped in which suited Arsenal as they would have had even more grief off their fans ? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, The Last Post said:

We were the big club in those halcyon days Well Done Applause GIF by MOODMAN

His injury pretty much sealed his fate, A few loans and maybe some loot involved, I'll never forget the hattrick Vs Real Madrid ? 

Weren’t we a bit like Blackburn? bobbing along in the second division then rose to the top, twice for us mind, then dropped away back to where we came from?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Bob The Badger said:

Pound for pound and Euro for Euro and taking into account their age, when they were at Derby (and you must have seen them play), who would fetch most in tomorrow's transfer window? Give the year and the sale price and ignore if they went on to be better or worse that the figure suggested  

I'll go for:

Colin Todd 1975, £100m

 

2 hours ago, oomarkwright said:

Steve Bloomer. 

How f'ing old are you!?!  ;-)

But I expect you'd be right - a Steve Bloomer playing today would be worth gazillions. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd suggest Dean Saunders, he went for a record fee at the peak of his career. Full international too. He would be as good as Saleh now I suspect, and that level of value. Terrible that the club got none of the fee!

The other one would have to be Roy Mcfarland just before he injured his achilles playing for England. Again, a world class defender, far better than Maguire for sure.

Edited by Simmo’s left foot
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

Wasn’t Charlie on the verge of going to Spurs when Dave Mackay stepped in which suited Arsenal as they would have had even more grief off their fans ? 

That's correct Reggie. Charlie was so anxious to get away from Bertie Mee that he had done the unthinkable and had agreed to join Terry Neill at Spurs. Charlie was born and to this day remains a Gooner. Dave Mackay stepped in and Charlie explained that he had promised to sign for Spurs so Dave Mackay thought that was that. But he misunderstood. The next day Charlie anxiously phoned Mackay asking "Are you ducking coming to sign me or ducking what?"

At which point Dave jumped on a plane from Edinburgh to London and they did the deal later that day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Boycie said:

Weren’t we a bit like Blackburn? bobbing along in the second division then rose to the top, twice for us mind, then dropped away back to where we came from?

No we weren't. Clough and Taylor built us into champions remarkably quickly with little help from the bard just as they did at Forest later. Jack Walker bought the title for Blackburn from his own personal wealth. Whenever Clough left a club the forthcoming direction was usually quickly downwards.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account.

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...