The Administration Thread

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

54 minutes ago, Betty Swollocks said:

I suppose that the sale of Jozwiak has made things a little easier as regards getting an acceptable price.

Rumours are that the the money from his sale was the same amount that was required to pay off Lech Poznan so therefore that is another 100% creditor off the books.

So say, if the 28 million figure was correct to satisfy all debts but Ashley or whoever only bid 26 million, the 2 million or whatever we received for Joz pays off the debt to Poznan (Football Debt) so the overall figure now drops to 26 million making Ashleys bid viable?

I guess we will find out for sure in the next days and weeks, but to me it makes no sense whatsoever to buy the club and burden it with a 15 point deduction next season for the sake of a few million quid when you are a rich as Ashley.

 

To have a situation of minus 15 surely won’t happen. It doesn’t make any business sense because the squad would need heavy investment anyway unless a purchase is made soon and contracts are tied up. Relegation to league 1, minus 15 and only a few first team players on the books doesn’t make sense- it could easily be league 2 the season after. 

[Ram-Alf]

3 minutes ago, BucksRam said:

I've honestly more or less stopped checking.  Constant refreshing of this forum, Twitter, NewsNow etc was doing my sanity no good whatsoever.  What will be, will be. To be fair, my main focus has been on the horrendous events in Ukraine which has been more of a distraction for me, albeit an admittedly morbid one ? 

We'll either post regurgitated posts from way back or post "nonsense", There's nowt going to happen soon or even "shortly", If a PB is to be announced "shortly" Sky news will be all over it...ie breaking news, There might just might be 1 or 2 ITKers on here who may get a snippet of news, Nixon, Maguire and Percy will pick the bones of info from twitter and Sky...or if favourites with the EFL

And as you say...Ukraine is a horror show. ?

[PistoldPete]

17 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

We'll either post regurgitated posts from way back or post "nonsense", There's nowt going to happen soon or even "shortly", If a PB is to be announced "shortly" Sky news will be all over it...ie breaking news, There might just might be 1 or 2 ITKers on here who may get a snippet of news, Nixon, Maguire and Percy will pick the bones of info from twitter and Sky...or if favourites with the EFL

And as you say...Ukraine is a horror show. ?

 Nixon will say Ashley has pulled out .. bit in the paper. And then Ashley will be announced as preferred  bidder. 

[Tamworthram]

36 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

We'll either post regurgitated posts from way back or post "nonsense", There's nowt going to happen soon or even "shortly", If a PB is to be announced "shortly" Sky news will be all over it...ie breaking news, There might just might be 1 or 2 ITKers on here who may get a snippet of news, Nixon, Maguire and Percy will pick the bones of info from twitter and Sky...or if favourites with the EFL

And as you say...Ukraine is a horror show. ?

Don’t forget the irritating (yes I know I’m a miserable git) puns that keep emerging.

[Ram-Alf]

4 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Don’t forget the irritating (yes I know I’m a miserable git) puns that keep emerging.

Oh yes not forgetting the puns, Or old buildings or past workplaces or Women or pubs or any other non Admin posting, Hey it's a message board we get bored so we post, I guess it's akin to trying to contact a loved one who's passed and see if anyones out there.

 

[Ghost of Clough]

2 hours ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Pretty sure you're not to far wrong, HMRC are known for scapping debt...not millions but billions especially since Covid, The concern will be, If they let DCFC pay 25% and I believe that has allready been agreed upon from posters on here posting that, When is the next football club going to write their HMRC debt off and go into Admin.

All EFL clubs are watching us with bated breath

Each case will be dealt with individually. If HMRC think they're being short-changed, they'll demand more.
In our case, 25% is very likely the most they can get, so they'll take it.
The next club might only have £5m of HMRC and very little other debt. HMRC will be in a stronger position to hold out for more.

[atherstoneram]

3 hours ago, Crewton said:

HMRC aren't getting all of their money whatever happens. No-one is going to pay that much and liquidation will give them far less than 25%. They have a decision to make when the PB is appointed. 

On the stadium, there's already an agreement in place, a long term lease, for the club to rent it from Morris' company for £1.25M a season, which covers this EFL requirement you mention (which I've never heard of before, but sounds plausible). 

People keep going on that HMRC will get less if the club goes into liquidation,that won't bother HMRC, if the club wants to survive then they will have to pay all they owe. The bidders will be fully aware of that. The HMRC may come to some arrangement regarding a payment plan but it will be on their terms not the bidders.

[atherstoneram]

3 hours ago, GenBr said:

Sorry - i can't believe you actually believe this. We've had a 21 point deduction this season and we've been under transfer embargo for years now - all bids will have been made under the assumption that we will be a league 1 team next year.

As i've said before the division we are in makes no difference to the value of the bids. The bidders aren't paying for the club as such - they are just paying off debts and they'll the minimum required regardless of what division we're in.

The administrators sole concern is to get as much money as possible to pay back to the creditors. They will accept the highest bid. They certainly won't be stringing it out to the end of the season just because they've secured funding in the bizarre hope that a new higher bid will magically appear. 

Its up to HMRC what they want to do, but theres nothing to say they have to accept the full payment up front. They could agree for it to be paid off over time.

If nothing is agreed then they get nothing at all - we dont own pride park, we dont own moor farm and we'll have about 6 players under contract at the end of the season, so they're not going to get anything from us selling assets off.

I'm not saying they are stringing it out but as you say we have no real assets and a number of players out of contract at the end of the season who then don't belong to the club so HMRC might be of the opinion there is no way they will get any money back anyway.

[atherstoneram]

3 hours ago, Sparkle said:

Yet that is what they are not going to get - more of a concern to the HMRC should be the the 100% towards football creditors which they should be stopping from happening 

So if they don't get it,it could be liquidation.

[atherstoneram]

3 hours ago, rammieib said:

I think you have missed the point.

£28M - Cost to settle debts whether you're in Championship or League One.

So by that virtue - the bidder is paying £0 for the club ownership whether its in the Premier League or League One. So future income is irrelevant against the amount they are bidding for the club - because the offers are £0.

If maybe its a case of saying that a bidder will pay £20m for the Stadium if its a Champ Club or £10m if its in League One then that might make a little bit more sense. However - unless all offers are structured like that, the Admins should be making a decision on the now element, not constantly delaying the future security of the club.

If any bidders don't agree to pay HMRC there is no future.

[Jimbo Ram]

8 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Each case will be dealt with individually. If HMRC think they're being short-changed, they'll demand more.
In our case, 25% is very likely the most they can get, so they'll take it.
The next club might only have £5m of HMRC and very little other debt. HMRC will be in a stronger position to hold out for more.

Nice for you to share your opinion......

[atherstoneram]

4 hours ago, Crewton said:

HMRC aren't getting all of their money whatever happens. No-one is going to pay that much and liquidation will give them far less than 25%. They have a decision to make when the PB is appointed. 

On the stadium, there's already an agreement in place, a long term lease, for the club to rent it from Morris' company for £1.25M a season, which covers this EFL requirement you mention (which I've never heard of before, but sounds plausible). 

The HMRC have probably already made a decision and informed the administrators which is why we can't announce a preferred bidder.

[atherstoneram]

3 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

HMRC wanted preferred bidder status so that they are treated more favourably than unsecured creditors. They can still only get paid what is available from the bids that have come in. 

And if the funds aren't available they may well say no deal,no use keep saying they will accept what is offered, you have to remember they don't have to. If the bidders think the club is of value then they have the option to pay in full or walk away.

[atherstoneram]

3 hours ago, Oldben said:

https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/football-news/chris-kirchner-preston-derby-county-23313908

A reminder again of the Kirchner bid for Derby, that our administrators failed to capitalise on.

The reason might have been the middlesbrough/wycombe craziness but who knows.

Kirchner went public with his interest in the purchase of the Rams before withdrawing from the process in December 2021, writing in a statement: "Two weeks ago, I made a formal offer to buy the club. I believe I presented a very detailed, generous and ambitious long-term sustainable business plan. It included purchasing the stadium, future funding and maintaining the academy’s status. We improved that offer further today."

Since pulling out of the deal to buy the club, the American has sent several tweets with regards to the situation at Derby and how things unfolded.

One read: "Not misled at all… knew the rough structure. That wasn’t the problem. Problem is overall price, complexity with debts from previous owner (Mel Morris), and the stadium doesn’t make it any easier.”

The club might have been in a different position had this brought a close to the behaviour of the efl towards us.

I see nothing in his statement about paying any bills/money to creditors.

[atherstoneram]

3 hours ago, RipleyRich said:

Not my interpretation from what I have read:

https://www.morton-fraser.com/insights/hmrc-fc-1-v-0-football-creditors-fc

I would have thought insolvency practitioners are more aware of proceedings than lawyers.

[atherstoneram]

3 hours ago, Crewton said:

That article is three years old, and is trying to second guess what the rule change means in practical terms. It isn't, in fact, a victory over the Football Creditors rule, since FCs must still be paid in full if a club wishes to exit Administration without further penalty, whilst every other class of creditor is 'free' to negotiate (albeit minority unsecured creditors have little power to decide). HMRC's response to their new status still hasn't been tested, due to the government moritorium on winding up orders during Covid. So everyone claiming that HMRC are going to play hardball are speculating, no more than that, as far as I can see. 

We will find out in time.

[atherstoneram]

3 hours ago, GenBr said:

Sorry - i can't believe you actually believe this. We've had a 21 point deduction this season and we've been under transfer embargo for years now - all bids will have been made under the assumption that we will be a league 1 team next year.

As i've said before the division we are in makes no difference to the value of the bids. The bidders aren't paying for the club as such - they are just paying off debts and they'll the minimum required regardless of what division we're in.

The administrators sole concern is to get as much money as possible to pay back to the creditors. They will accept the highest bid. They certainly won't be stringing it out to the end of the season just because they've secured funding in the bizarre hope that a new higher bid will magically appear. 

Its up to HMRC what they want to do, but theres nothing to say they have to accept the full payment up front. They could agree for it to be paid off over time.

If nothing is agreed then they get nothing at all - we dont own pride park, we dont own moor farm and we'll have about 6 players under contract at the end of the season, so they're not going to get anything from us selling assets off.

I'm not referring to the administrators but bidders,if we go down then the bidders would have a real problem.A CVA, if we can get one, will be easier to pay than one if we are relegated due to the amount of expected income.

[atherstoneram]

3 hours ago, Sparkle said:

Yet that is what they are not going to get - more of a concern to the HMRC should be the the 100% towards football creditors which they should be stopping from happening 

No,that should be more of a concern to the EFL if HMRC want 100%

[rammieib]

30 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

If any bidders don't agree to pay HMRC there is no future.

I believe an Agreement in Principle has been made with HMCR.

[atherstoneram]

3 hours ago, ram59 said:

It's nothing to do with them being able to pay their bills, it's about them being able to pay their bills whilst staying within their financial plan agreed with the EFL. A lot depends on whether there was any pay off for the old manager and how much they're paying Ince senior and his assistant. 

Of course it's all about paying the bills and they must be staying within the agreed plan otherwise the EFL would have imposed more sanctions.