Derby finally accept 21 point deduction.

[ripleyram88]

Boils down to 1 question:

If COVID hadn't happened would DCFC be in administration right now? Everything points towards no.

Doesn't matter how much of the mess we are in is down to financial mismanagement, if losses because of COVID contributed to pushing us over the edge then we wouldn't have been in admin without it.

COVID is a force majeure event. That's not up for debate.

Will the EFL try and argue admin was down to Mel stopping funding the club? Most likely that's the route they will take.

But it's a fact we have lost £20million+ due to COVID stopping revenue.

[kevinhectoring]

2 hours ago, I know nuffin said:

Amazing the administrators have ndas on everything but journalists have contacts that give them information that they might be publishing the very things covered by the administrator and the EFL. NDAs. More holes somewhere than in a sieve

The admins realise comms have been a problem, that the fans want updates, so there is an information flow to the journos that keeps us all happy enough   I think they’re doing a decent job 

[Chris_Martin]

5 hours ago, DCFC Kicks said:

What would the EFL actually get out of destroying us? Wouldn't they lose out if they a club the size of Derby left the EFL? I can see why they'd want to trap some of the bigger clubs from escaping to the PL, but why would they want them to disappear altogether? 

 

54 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

money?

 

52 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

???

Steve Gibson's money may help them reach a certain decision. ?

[Oldben]

If Derby get a further 9 points they are relegated, so of course Derby have to appeal the 12 points already given.

Problem is the appeal against the points route been tried before and it failed.

It's very tough in League One as my understanding is that all clubs have very limited wage budget plus their transfer budgets are the same in as much as they are not allowed to spend beyond a certain amount on transfers.

That was designed to give a competitive level playing field.

Since derbys wages are potentially already to high, if in League One it would mean bringing in new players could be very difficult.

Plus I thought I read that Rooney wouldn't stay at Derby if they are relegated.

When I look at League bias it's very clear that the it exists in the championship, even without derbys transfer embargo, the clubs only allowed to spend a set amount on wages and transfers but those clubs relegated from the Premier league have Premier league quality players plus they get massive parachute payments over 3 years meaning they can be promoted very quickly.

So clubs without the luxury of parachute payments are hamstrung in terms of ability to compete.

 

[Steve Buckley’s Dog]

I don’t think the EFL would accept that the COVID pandemic actually happened if it was us that said so, so I can’t see any appeal working. The EFL want their pound of flesh and from their point of view relegate us at all costs. If they fail to do that then I am sure Gibson will sue them, or us or anyone.

However I don’t think we have been treated fairly at all by the EFL and think that I could put a pretty coherent ams cogent case as to why, so am sure a top solicitor/barrister could make a fairly compelling argument, when it comes to future points deductions.

We just need new owners and to reset ourselves in all honesty but like Keegan, I would love it, love it if we beat them (again) in a (kangaroo) court of law. 

[Mckram]

Anyone arguing that appealing is a waste of money and we should have used it for those that have been made redundant need to realise that without appealing there’s a good chance more jobs will be lost if we end up in league 1. If we stay in the Championship by a point or 2 because of a won appeal, then we’re protecting more jobs in the longer term and those that lost jobs may possibly get them back.

[alram]

1 hour ago, DCFC1388 said:

I could be wrong but wouldnt any of these fees just be added to the cost of the administrators which get paid off by the new owners? 

Plus, IF we were successful, there is more chance of getting these people their jobs back whereas relegation is likely to result in more job losses.

So you are just adding more costs to the buyer of the club, it is already a massively unappealing purchase.

I dont get what the hell they are doing personally, stop wasting the clubs already tiny amount of money.

[alram]

9 minutes ago, Mckram said:

Anyone arguing that appealing is a waste of money and we should have used it for those that have been made redundant need to realise that without appealing there’s a good chance more jobs will be lost if we end up in league 1. If we stay in the Championship by a point or 2 because of a won appeal, then we’re protecting more jobs in the longer term and those that lost jobs may possibly get them back.

Despite our excellent results so far this squad isnt good enough to stay in this division, you throw in a points penalty whatever it may be, i am sure we will have more penalties coming.

 

it's a complete waste of time and resources. we should be planning life for league one and that should be along the lines of savouring every penny we have - not fighting stupid legal battles. So if its not staff that are suffering, we are gonna have to pay that bill with a player sale in january anyway.

Edited October 10, 2021 by alram

[DCFC1388]

Just now, alram said:

So you are just adding more costs to the buyer of the club, it is already a massively unappealing purchase.

I dont get what the hell they are doing personally, stop wasting the clubs already tiny amount of money.

I think a buyer would be happy to spend 300k trying to reduce the points so we have more chance of staying up which will result in more income being in the Champ over League 1

[Ram-Alf]

21 minutes ago, Steve Buckley’s Dog said:

I don’t think the EFL would accept that the COVID pandemic actually happened

Rick Parry with proof from the Chinese Government that Covid-19 is a hoax

[rammieib]

2 hours ago, I know nuffin said:

Many thanks in correcting me. Just does not appear to be in the best interests of our club to have numbers bandied about showing a value much lower than shall we say nasty non supporters would want a new owner to have to pay. We also appear to live in a world where all the news is on twitter long before the decision is supposed to have been made . Just as if people are floating things across the population to find out what the reaction is. Ashley, the other names, various point deductions and even going into administration as examples.

Serious players thinking of buying us won’t be paying attention to the rumours on Twitter. They’ll receive the data, go through it all very meticulously by smart finance people, allocate risk to the ongoing situation and then if they still want to proceed, put offers on the table.

The administrators need to remove/reduce that risk as much as possible whilst keeping the club operational day to day. The administrators have a hell of a challenge with MM, MSD, EFL all to deal with before you even consider lower creditors and day to day operations.

Oh and then there will be their bill of a million quid to pay as well.

[alram]

5 hours ago, Crewton said:

Do you imagine that relegation, which you seem to be advocating, wouldn't result in even more job losses, nor threaten the future existence of the club?

The blasé way in which some fans seem to want the Club/Administrators to simply roll over and accept whatever punishment the EFL want to mete out, in some cases mainly (it seems) because they're "bored with it all" is quite staggering. 

Unlike Wigan, DCFC's case is based on a full season of heavily impacted revenues. The argument that the owner could simply have made up the difference, or that he shouldn't have allowed the club to get into financial difficulties in the first place doesn't negate the impact of the pandemic.

I expect it to fail, because such a precedent is the last thing the EFL would want, but I'm pleased they're willing to try it, if only to keep our season alive.

I know we all have hope because of our excellent start but that's exactly what it is. When the results sour in the busy winter period then what? For me it's about using the little money we have wisely, appealing points deductions is not good use of resources. What if the appeal fails? oh it's okay, the tea lady can go - that should cover it. It is a waste of money, we will be incredibly lucky to stay up even without any deductions.

[alram]

3 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

I think a buyer would be happy to spend 300k trying to reduce the points so we have more chance of staying up which will result in more income being in the Champ over League 1

do we know it's that much? are the grounds we are appealing on actually worth persuing? we are going to have to recoup that money from somewhere. 

300k here, 300k there, it all adds up. the club is in a mess, if they want to find buyers they need to get the buyer the lowest price possible. If they are just adding cost after cost in a futile attempt to keep us in a division which we are doomed to go down in then it's a waste of resources.

just my opinion, sorry if i seem all doom and gloom but i do not trust these administrators. I didnt think the squad was good enough to even compete this season, a good first few months dont really change the huge hole we have in the playing squad - once we go on a bad set of results will we recover? we are looking at a playoff season to even stay in the division and this is a weaker set of players that rooney kept up with the skin of their teeth.

[alram]

6 hours ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

If Derby is successful it could be the difference between relegation and staying up. Don't see how its ludicrous if they think there is a strong case.

you are chasing results on the pitch. It is the exact reason we are in the mess in the first place.

administrators should be focusing on sorting the club off the pitch, and on the pitch will sort itself out.

Championship or league one, we are not an attractive club to buy regardless.

[Foreveram]

8 minutes ago, alram said:

I know we all have hope because of our excellent start but that's exactly what it is. When the results sour in the busy winter period then what? For me it's about using the little money we have wisely, appealing points deductions is not good use of resources. What if the appeal fails? oh it's okay, the tea lady can go - that should cover it. It is a waste of money, we will be incredibly lucky to stay up even without any deductions.

Glad you’re not playing for us

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

4 minutes ago, alram said:

you are chasing results on the pitch. It is the exact reason we are in the mess in the first place.

administrators should be focusing on sorting the club off the pitch, and on the pitch will sort itself out.

Championship or league one, we are not an attractive club to buy regardless.

League 1 a lot less attractive. Could be down there for ever. Need to fight any points deduction if possible. 

[alram]

Just now, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

League 1 a lot less attractive. Could be down there for ever. Need to fight any points deduction if possible. 

we have a skeleton squad and ffp troubles (the next accounting period may also lead to deductions). a club in the championship will still have to spend money to compete again, league 1 may slow the proccess but it will also mean a cheaper club and let them mould it in their own way and time.

what makes us an attractive club is lowering the stupid price a buyer has to pay with very little to show for it.

we all may have different opinions on this but i really think people are wrong (and the administrators) when they put so much weight in what division we are going to be in. 

[alram]

Maybe my take is not a popular one but for me the administrators need to face the task ahead with realism, they are just sounding like a pound shop mel morris in everything they have said and done so far.

[I know nuffin]

The administrators must think it is winnable and if won will help them get more for the club and that way more for the creditors as I believe is their job

[Mckram]

44 minutes ago, alram said:

Despite our excellent results so far this squad isnt good enough to stay in this division, you throw in a points penalty whatever it may be, i am sure we will have more penalties coming.

 

it's a complete waste of time and resources. we should be planning life for league one and that should be along the lines of savouring every penny we have - not fighting stupid legal battles. So if its not staff that are suffering, we are gonna have to pay that bill with a player sale in january anyway.

It’s highly likely we will have new owners by January. If they can sign players then I see no reason why we wouldn’t stay up.

We’ve only lost 3 games out of 11 this season. One of those being late with 10 men and the other being even later with 2 goals in added time. To say that a squad that’s achieved that isn’t good enough is barmy. We still have players to come back from injury too.

I can’t believe you wouldn’t want to fight with everything we have to stay in this league. There is no guarantees of coming back from League 1 anytime soon. Also the tv money in League 1 is something like £1.5m per team then £30k per game picked for tv (which is hardly ever). The Championship is something like £7m per club then £100k per game on tv.

£300k is insignificant when comparing those numbers. Even if we make a good go of staying up and end up with 3 matches late in the season on sky for a relegation battle then we’ve covered that.