Derby finally accept 21 point deduction.

[Amberram]

36 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

I think I know him - white guy? used to live in Dover?

Ben?

[Gisby]

53 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

I had a friend named Cliff, Never really liked him, Always going over the top.

Was he married to Eileen Dover?

[Rev]

1 hour ago, ripleyram88 said:

Some "fans" at the moment - I can't even understand their viewpoint.

 

If someone ran up and pushed your wife off a cliff and killed her, would you turn round and blame her for standing too close to the edge, or the person that came out of nowhere are shoved her off.

I think the word you're looking for is thank.

[Crewton]

I'd love to know what advantages anyone could realistically argue we've gained through the alleged overspending?

- reaching a play-off final - picked up loser's revenues c.£3M? (though not confirmed)

- avoiding relegation last season (though that was actually because SWFC got a PD) - you could also argue that the Embargo imposed on us led to us having a worse season than expected.

That's it.

Awesome, eh?

Edited October 13, 2021 by Crewton

[Foreveram]

3 hours ago, angieram said:

You're starting to annoy me now with your pious outside observations, which are neither accurate nor timely.

Nothing happening in Blackpool?

Yes , they have upset the Preston fans by not giving them many tickets 

[kevinhectoring]

2 hours ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

You're a smart guy and you talk a lot of sense, but if you honestly believe that the EFL do not want to see Derby relegated, then it's hard to imagine what evidence would convince you otherwise. 

Of course there is a faction at the EFL who want us relegated. We know how their board is constituted. And there will be others - some of the full timers - who are offended by some of the things we have said and done, I’m sure they won’t shed a tear if we go down. 
All I was pointing out is the EFl have not stated - or even implied - in any communication that they want to see us relegated. Despite several assertions to the contrary on here 

[PistoldPete]

18 minutes ago, Crewton said:

I'd love to know what advantages anyone could realistically argue we've gained through the alleged overspending?

- reaching a play-off final - picked up loser's revenues c.£3M? (though not confirmed)

- avoiding relegation last season (though that was actually because SWFC got a PD) - you could also argue that the Embargo imposed on us led to us having a worse season than expected.

That's it.

Awesome, eh?

I don’t think avoiding relegation was due to overspending though .. in fact if W shandy overspent in previous years we wouldnt have been anywhere near relegation last year. 

[hintonsboots]

W. Shandy ? Have they made a bid.

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, hintonsboots said:

W. Shandy ? Have they made a bid.

How does autocorrect come up with That? Shandy is very handy I have heard .

[Crewton]

2 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

I don’t think avoiding relegation was due to overspending though .. in fact if W shandy overspent in previous years we wouldnt have been anywhere near relegation last year. 

Yes, that's kind-of what I meant : we've signed fewer players than we've released in the last 2 seasons and have a +ve transfer balance. It's one reason why I think Wycombe are on dodgy ground if they try to sue us - their gripe should be with the EFL, not us.

[PistoldPete]

11 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Yes, that's kind-of what I meant : we've signed fewer players than we've released in the last 2 seasons and have a +ve transfer balance. It's one reason why I think Wycombe are on dodgy ground if they try to sue us - their gripe should be with the EFL, not us.

Yes I think you are right . If Efl had docked us points in 2020/1 then we would have gone down and Wycombe stayed up . But that’s Efl fault not ours. 
 

anything we did wrong ie overspending was more historic and nothing to do with Wycombe.

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by PistoldPete

[Mucker1884]

4 hours ago, Coconut's Beard said:

edited, poor taste

If notifications are to be believed, then that was originally in response to my post (which you quoted).

If it was me that you are reluctant to offend, then worry ye not.  Fire away!  ?

 

However... if it was in poor taste generally speaking, and that the whole internet would be offended, then you sir, are an absolute sicko!  You should be ashamed!  Booo.  etc.

[Ram-Alf]

16 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

If notifications are to be believed, then that was originally in response to my post (which you quoted).

If it was me that you are reluctant to offend, then worry ye not.  Fire away!  ?

 

However... if it was in poor taste generally speaking, and that the whole internet would be offended, then you sir, are an absolute sicko!  You should be ashamed!  Booo.  etc.

I wasn't offended, But that's personel choice, My humour knows no bounds, But I understand why it was deleted ?

[PistoldPete]

3 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

Of course there is a faction at the EFL who want us relegated. We know how their board is constituted. And there will be others - some of the full timers - who are offended by some of the things we have said and done, I’m sure they won’t shed a tear if we go down. 
All I was pointing out is the EFl have not stated - or even implied - in any communication that they want to see us relegated. Despite several assertions to the contrary on here 

Well how about this , from the Wendies case? EFL's own Counsel saying that EFL didn't want to impose any sanction on Derby for 2019-20 because it wouldnt change the composition of the Championship in that year, ie it wouldn't have relegated us  but it would have relegated Wendies in 2019-20 so they wanted penalty points deduction for us in 2020-1 and for Wedensday they wanted it in 2019-20 in order to relegate them?

 

I mean this sort of thing just shows that the EFL is trying it on, trying  to cause maximum damage it can.. both to us and to Wednesday.
 

It is a funadamental problem , and its driven by the fact that the EFL is not an indpendent regulator, but is representing the interests of rival clubs. .

"Although proceedings of this
nature are private, the Club and Derby County agreed to share information about the
proceedings brought against each other. We say nothing about the appropriateness of
such an arrangement, but the result is that it has become clear from an interchange
between the Chair of the Commission in the Derby County case and Leading Counsel for
the EFL (Mr Mark Phillips QC) that, if the charge against Derby County is established, the
EFL will not be inviting the Disciplinary Commission to impose any points deduction in the
present, extended season. This, according to Mr Phillips, is on the basis that “looking at
the position of Derby in the League at the moment, anything that this Commission does is
unlikely to affect the composition of the Championship next year.” (It is, incidentally, to be
noted that any points deduction that might be imposed on Derby County if the charge is
established would also not have had any impact on that club in terms of relegation if it had
been imposed in the 2018-2019 season.)
27. Mr De Marco, not unnaturally, draws attention to what he submits is the inconsistency
between the position taken by the EFL in that case and the position taken in this case,
namely, that two clubs facing very similar allegations for a breach of the P&S Rules for
the same period should be treated differently because in one case the outcome could
have no impact on the “composition of the Championship next year”.

[Eatonram]

37 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Well how about this , from the Wendies case? EFL's own Counsel saying that EFL didn't want to impose any sanction on Derby for 2019-20 because it wouldnt change the composition of the Championship in that year, ie it wouldn't have relegated us  but it would have relegated Wendies in 2019-20 so they wanted penalty points deduction for us in 2020-1 and for Wedensday they wanted it in 2019-20 in order to relegate them?

 

I mean this sort of thing just shows that the EFL is trying it on, trying  to cause maximum damage it can.. both to us and to Wednesday.
 

It is a funadamental problem , and its driven by the fact that the EFL is not an indpendent regulator, but is representing the interests of rival clubs. .

"Although proceedings of this
nature are private, the Club and Derby County agreed to share information about the
proceedings brought against each other. We say nothing about the appropriateness of
such an arrangement, but the result is that it has become clear from an interchange
between the Chair of the Commission in the Derby County case and Leading Counsel for
the EFL (Mr Mark Phillips QC) that, if the charge against Derby County is established, the
EFL will not be inviting the Disciplinary Commission to impose any points deduction in the
present, extended season. This, according to Mr Phillips, is on the basis that “looking at
the position of Derby in the League at the moment, anything that this Commission does is
unlikely to affect the composition of the Championship next year.” (It is, incidentally, to be
noted that any points deduction that might be imposed on Derby County if the charge is
established would also not have had any impact on that club in terms of relegation if it had
been imposed in the 2018-2019 season.)
27. Mr De Marco, not unnaturally, draws attention to what he submits is the inconsistency
between the position taken by the EFL in that case and the position taken in this case,
namely, that two clubs facing very similar allegations for a breach of the P&S Rules for
the same period should be treated differently because in one case the outcome could
have no impact on the “composition of the Championship next year”.

Game set and match on this debate. 

[Carnero]

59 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Well how about this , from the Wendies case? EFL's own Counsel saying that EFL didn't want to impose any sanction on Derby for 2019-20 because it wouldnt change the composition of the Championship in that year, ie it wouldn't have relegated us  but it would have relegated Wendies in 2019-20 so they wanted penalty points deduction for us in 2020-1 and for Wedensday they wanted it in 2019-20 in order to relegate them?

 

I mean this sort of thing just shows that the EFL is trying it on, trying  to cause maximum damage it can.. both to us and to Wednesday.
 

It is a funadamental problem , and its driven by the fact that the EFL is not an indpendent regulator, but is representing the interests of rival clubs. .

"Although proceedings of this
nature are private, the Club and Derby County agreed to share information about the
proceedings brought against each other. We say nothing about the appropriateness of
such an arrangement, but the result is that it has become clear from an interchange
between the Chair of the Commission in the Derby County case and Leading Counsel for
the EFL (Mr Mark Phillips QC) that, if the charge against Derby County is established, the
EFL will not be inviting the Disciplinary Commission to impose any points deduction in the
present, extended season. This, according to Mr Phillips, is on the basis that “looking at
the position of Derby in the League at the moment, anything that this Commission does is
unlikely to affect the composition of the Championship next year.” (It is, incidentally, to be
noted that any points deduction that might be imposed on Derby County if the charge is
established would also not have had any impact on that club in terms of relegation if it had
been imposed in the 2018-2019 season.)
27. Mr De Marco, not unnaturally, draws attention to what he submits is the inconsistency
between the position taken by the EFL in that case and the position taken in this case,
namely, that two clubs facing very similar allegations for a breach of the P&S Rules for
the same period should be treated differently because in one case the outcome could
have no impact on the “composition of the Championship next year”.

[Eddie]

9 hours ago, angieram said:

You're starting to annoy me now with your pious outside observations, which are neither accurate nor timely.

Nothing happening in Blackpool?

I'm drinking in Blackpool at the moment. Does that count?

[RAM1966]

9 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

Of course there is a faction at the EFL who want us relegated. We know how their board is constituted. And there will be others - some of the full timers - who are offended by some of the things we have said and done, I’m sure they won’t shed a tear if we go down. 
All I was pointing out is the EFl have not stated - or even implied - in any communication that they want to see us relegated. Despite several assertions to the contrary on here 

The fact that the EFL stated they were disappointed that we did not get a points deduction says all you need to know about the EFL (At that time).  Hopefully now Morris has left the building, the EFLs approach has become more of a pragmatic one than just egos going to war!!!!!

Its going to be an interesting few months and the lead up to Xmas, I imagine any new owner will want to be in before the end of Dec - mid Jan latest to assist Wayne make some signings....  So fingers crossed the situation with the EFL is resolved and we have new owners by the end of the year ?

[kevinhectoring]

4 hours ago, Eatonram said:

Game set and match on this debate. 

Is it ?

Certainly @Carnerothinks so because he awarded @PistoldPetea home run. 
 
So, do these words from Mark Phillips’ loose lips mean :

A the EFl launched disciplinary proceedings against a member club. It wanted to ensure that any sanction had some effect, instead of none, because otherwise the proceedings are pointless and a waste of their members’ money and make a mockery of the enforcement regime  

B They’ve got it in for us (as I think you are claiming)

(We know btw that some on the EFl board have got it in for us, but that’s not the point)

I don’t know the answer to the question for sure by the way because I’m not in the room when the EFL decide how to handle these matters. 

 

 
 

 

[KRAM]

On 10/10/2021 at 18:34, Mckram said:

Anyone arguing that appealing is a waste of money and we should have used it for those that have been made redundant need to realise that without appealing there’s a good chance more jobs will be lost if we end up in league 1. If we stay in the Championship by a point or 2 because of a won appeal, then we’re protecting more jobs in the longer term and those that lost jobs may possibly get them back.

Well why don’t you crowd fund it if you are so confident. Then throw the money you raise down the toilet of an appeal.