Anag Ram Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 I hope Derby, the EFL and others are discussing this matter as much as we flippin' are! ? r_wilcockson and archram 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 47 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said: Hopefully people will read this quote and see that the EFL did NOT indicate in the statement that they wanted to see us relegated. That’s all You're a smart guy and you talk a lot of sense, but if you honestly believe that the EFL do not want to see Derby relegated, then it's hard to imagine what evidence would convince you otherwise. Kathcairns and MackworthRamIsGod 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 19 minutes ago, basilrobbie said: You make some interesting points Pete, as does Crewton. Starting with your last point, in a perfect world the regulatory regime would be far more forensic and targeted than it is. It is one of the reasons why Tracey Crouch's work is so important ; the framework we have is not fit for purpose. And that is compounded by the breathtaking ineptitude of the body that has control over it. This is where I depart from Crewton - I completely understand his frustrations with the EFL (more on that in a minute). But I think it is just incompetence, rather than anything more sinister. I actually think your club is suffering more than it has to because the EFL knows its regulatory powers are under threat. At my club, our frustration towards them stemmed from what we saw as a wilful refusal to take ANY action, despite overwhelming evidence that they should. I think the pendulum has swung in that they are now trying to be proactive without having the skills wherewithal and general political nous to do that properly. They are struggling to show that they are relevant - but that ship has long sailed, I hope. I think what is really needed now is a rapid and clear conclusion, for everybody's sake. Your new owners might be unknown, at present, but every day that this lingers on makes their job harder when they come in. And I think your administrators should have considerations like that at the front of their minds, and be acting accordingly. I have my doubts about them doing this as they should. Crewton, I don't feel berated, I feel as though we are having a civilised discussion from very different viewpoints. Your case feels especially poignant for me ; I started watching live football in 1968 and what I loved about that era was that provincial clubs like Derby County could legitimately aspire to be Champions of England. I watched you win 3-2 at Bloomfield Road in your promotion season in my early days and it was completely enthralling. Memories like that count for a lot. My biggest concern by far is that no buyer is found because the debts are unmanageable . The Efl then take the action they did with Bury and banish us from the League. vut really there is no reason why the club cannot retain its Efl membership even in such a nightmare scenario. It would be down to the Efl.. they made the wrong call with Bury and I am fearful they could do the same to us. So the question of why are we in such a financial mess .., is it COVID or is it self inflicted .. and if self inflicted it’s the owners fault not the fans so why should they suffer? The COVID question becomes pretty crucial .. it may not be just about the 12 point deduction. Kathcairns 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram-Alf Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 1 hour ago, basilrobbie said: I think this is a bit paranoid, if you don't mind me saying so. I fully agree with you that the EFL seek to deflect blame for, and attention from, whatever poo show they happen to be presiding over at any one time. It's a technique that was developed under Harvey, along with unconscionable delay, in an attempt to cover the fact that they aren't up to the regulatory aspects of their job and - culturally - aren't all that keen on doing them either. When Tracey Crouch recommends that they lose all responsibility for regulatory maters, I think their Board will be secretly relieved. But incompetence is a long way from the kind of calculated poohousery that you are accusing them of. They may listen far too much to the likes of Gibson, but as a glorified shop steward they are obliged to listen to all their Members, and not just some of them. It's the Achilles Heel in the way they have chosen to set themselves up as competition organisers (Yes, I know) and revenue generators (not very good at that either). Had Harvey still been CEO, I'd have been far more sympathetic to your view - but he isn't. What a lot of your fans want to gloss over is why the EFL and its constituent clubs currently view your club with so much suspicion. And I'm afraid that on this point, all roads lead back to Mr. Morris, who has turned your club into a by-word in questionable practices that seem unashamedly about giving your club an unfair advantage. It's one of life ironies that he was so bad at it. None of this is the fault of your fans. I stood in the away end at PP not so long ago and heard you lead chants of "We want Oyston out", and think a lot of you for it. But setting that aside, the fans of other clubs are heartily sick of this saga (two years old, isn't it?), in the Championship we are even more sick of the uncertainty. My personal view is that as fans you could do more to call the club out on the way it has behaved. I understand why a siege mentality has developed - but your club is very largely in the wrong, and however badly the matter is being handled by others doesn't change that. The administrators - unfortunately - seem to be playing to the gallery at the moment . I don't understand why they would commit so much money that you can't afford on a case that seems shaky at best, unless it was because they wanted to generate some good PR. And they do seem to love a public statement that doesn't say very much of substance, don't they? I wish you a speedy outcome, even if it is a points deduction that sends you down. The January window is not far away, and there is a real danger that the club won't be a progressive player in it, as things stand. And you need to start planning for a fresh start that gives you hope for the future. Without hope, there isn't much point in following any football club. I used to visit one of your boards "Back Henry Street" the distaine for the Oystons especialy K Oyston and his Son, Who at the drop of a hat would send a Solicitors letter for "slander" the Solicitor being someone who wasn't actually a Solicitor, There was open warfare against the Oystons and rightly so even to get one of your games abandoned when tennis balls thrown and then fans storming the pitch,,,one in a wheelchair. As for our missgivings...you need to fact check your post, We were found guilty of a minor offence where a £100,000 fine was imposed, We're still waiting for the ELF who by the looks are on that Boat to China and waiting for imo us to climb the table only for them to hit us with another points penalty. Just to remind you of the EFLs culpability...they let the Oystons milk Blackpool FC out of millions of £s while they stood and let you burn, Let Bury be sold for £1 to a sharleton, Closed their eyes to what happened to Wigan with a fictitious sale, Fed Macclesfield to the Lions, Capitulated to Anderson who was Boltons major shareholder when he was talking about liquidating them. Sympathy we're not looking for, That seige mentality is now set in stone by the majority who pay or those who watch from afar. Foreveram, NottsRam77, PistoldPete and 7 others 8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 I think it's interesting that other clubs view us as gaming the system to gain an unfair advantage. The thing is though, does that stack up? To me gaining an unfair advantage really boils down to spending more on players than comparable clubs. Did we really do that? Certainly we had one Barmby window where we signed Johnson, Butterfield, Ince etc, but excluding that it doesn't feel like we've spent any more than any other ambitious Championship team. I wonder if the big difference is that we have generally spent poorly? Consequently, we had to write off millions for most of our big signings, whereas our rivals tended to recoup at least some of their outlay, so their net spend is likely to be lower. I'd love someone to look at the figures over Mel's tenure. I bet that Middlesbrough, Forest and Bristol City have spent more than us. Rammy03, LeedsCityRam, NottsRam77 and 3 others 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 24 minutes ago, CornwallRam said: I think it's interesting that other clubs view us as gaming the system to gain an unfair advantage. The thing is though, does that stack up? To me gaining an unfair advantage really boils down to spending more on players than comparable clubs. Did we really do that? Certainly we had one Barmby window where we signed Johnson, Butterfield, Ince etc, but excluding that it doesn't feel like we've spent any more than any other ambitious Championship team. I wonder if the big difference is that we have generally spent poorly? Consequently, we had to write off millions for most of our big signings, whereas our rivals tended to recoup at least some of their outlay, so their net spend is likely to be lower. I'd love someone to look at the figures over Mel's tenure. I bet that Middlesbrough, Forest and Bristol City have spent more than us. I think you are right except I don’t even agree that we have spent more unwisely than other teams. boro buying asomalonga for £15 million and then letting him go for nothing is hardly the kind of sensible spending we should be taking lessons from Mr Gibson about. r_wilcockson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram-Alf Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 24 minutes ago, CornwallRam said: I think it's interesting that other clubs view us as gaming the system to gain an unfair advantage. The thing is though, does that stack up? To me gaining an unfair advantage really boils down to spending more on players than comparable clubs. Did we really do that? Certainly we had one Barmby Nope! CornwallRam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beetle Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 I don't think there is any doubt that Morris and Pearce used the amortisation policy to give us an advantage at during 'a period of time.' From what I understand we were punished accordingly: 'Alongside a financial penalty of £100,000, the Club received a reprimand as to its future conduct and was ordered to submit revised and restated accounts for the years ended 30 June 2016, 30 June 2017, and 30 June 2018 to the EFL by Wednesday 18 August 2021.' So until we find out exactly what those accounts tell us we do not know what rules we have broken. If it turns out we have broken the rules and are given an additional points fine you can see why other teams in the EFL would be annoyed we were not punished last year. In reality we really should have been punished the year before though if we are found to have broken the rules. To me the process has been so badly managed by the EFL that there should be some kind of explanation to all of the EFL members why it has taken so long and why it has still not been resolved since they got the accounts in August. Crewton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, basilrobbie said: What a lot of your fans want to gloss over is why the EFL and its constituent clubs currently view your club with so much suspicion. And I'm afraid that on this point, all roads lead back to Mr. Morris, who has turned your club into a by-word in questionable practices that seem unashamedly about giving your club an unfair advantage. It's one of life ironies that he was so bad at it. The problem here is that most of the people who've formed an opinion of us know very little about what's actually gone on, and are basing their views on sensationalist headlines, untrue and/or misleading write-ups telling only half the story, and what they read on that poo stain of the internet known as Twitter. All they read is that we've broken some rule or other, that's enough to condemn us. Never mind that we've only broken a rule because the terms of engagement have changed, or that ultimately it's boiled down to one person's opinion overruling multiple others on a technicality. I think it's summed up by your line about us being viewed as seeking an unfair advantage, we simply haven't - we've sought a competitive advantage, which isn't the same thing at all. A lot of our actions have been an attempt to even out the genuinely unfair advantage gained by teams in receipt of parachute payments, that gained by those who've blatantly set out to make a mockery of spending limits - clubs like Villa who basically just bought every single sought-after midfielder in the division at one stage - or that gained by a club like Wolves signing Champions League quality players & managers from a closed market (and as such at well below market value) while deferring a massive chunk of their wages until such a point they achieve the inevitable promotion signing those players/that manager would bring. Throw in those with owners of two clubs in separate counties trading between themselves for good measure. We've doubtless gone too far with it, of course, hence ending up in this position. Nobody is saying we're blameless or that Mel Morris hasn't well and truly messed it up, but an unfair advantage, really? It's nonsense. In saying "The EFL and its constituent clubs currently view your club with so much suspicion" you make it sound like there are far more clubs who are emotionally / morally invested in our situation than there really are. The only people to really speak up are Boro, Wycombe & Rotherham. There's little evidence that there's a whole host of clubs baying for some sort of justice - plenty of evidence of fans of other clubs doing so, but they're mostly hypocrites who've forgotten their own club's past misdeeds. Nobody really seemed to have a problem with us until one chairman went running to them to complain about us after we pipped his team to a play-off spot (because our £4m striker gave us an advantage over them that their £15m striker didn't give them over us!). Without that and the Kieran Maguire writing letters to the EFL about our amortisation policy it's debatable whether or not the EFL would ever even have opened a case against us. Edited October 13, 2021 by Coconut's Beard Kathcairns, Rev, Dordogne-Ram and 15 others 5 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 14 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said: Nope! Don't you just love auto correct Ram-Alf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 2 hours ago, angieram said: Nothing happening in Blackpool? Nothing illuminating apparently hintonsboots, i-Ram, angieram and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripleyram88 Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 Some "fans" at the moment - I can't even understand their viewpoint. If someone ran up and pushed your wife off a cliff and killed her, would you turn round and blame her for standing too close to the edge, or the person that came out of nowhere are shoved her off. Mostyn6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, ripleyram88 said: Some "fans" at the moment - I can't even understand their viewpoint. If someone ran up and pushed your wife off a cliff and killed her, would you turn round and blame her for standing too close to the edge, or the person that came out of nowhere are shoved her off. Ooh... Ooh... Can I go first! I know the answer to this one! Ram-Alf, cstand, MuespachRam and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 (edited) edited, poor taste Edited October 13, 2021 by Coconut's Beard kevinhectoring and Mucker1884 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram-Alf Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 14 minutes ago, ripleyram88 said: Some "fans" at the moment - I can't even understand their viewpoint. If someone ran up and pushed your wife off a cliff and killed her, would you turn round and blame her for standing too close to the edge, or the person that came out of nowhere are shoved her off. I had a friend named Cliff, Never really liked him, Always going over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaspode Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 12 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said: I had a friend named Cliff, Never really liked him, Always going over the top. I think I know him - white guy? used to live in Dover? Steve How Hard? and Ram-Alf 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 13 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said: I had a friend named Cliff, Never really liked him, Always going over the top. Always liked Cliff, bit of a ledge. Ram-Alf and mike93rh 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hintonsboots Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 23 minutes ago, Gaspode said: I think I know him - white guy? used to live in Dover? Didn’t he collapse regularly in bad weather? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eccles the ram Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 Knew his sister Eileen Dover! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk Thrust Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, eccles the ram said: Knew his sister Eileen Dover! How many minutes before someone comes up with the old chestnut “Ben Dover and Phil McCracken” oh I just did, Damn eccles the ram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account.
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now