alram Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 37 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said: May as well appeal, the worst is 12 for admin + 9 for p&s, so new possible owners will know that already. An appeal means it could go from 21 overall to 15, which we have overtuned 14 of already. There is no doubting covid has had a huge impact on our income, whether that is 5m or 20m, had we received that money we may have stayed out of admin, how much we were losing a month/year before covid is irrelevant as the club still didnt go into administration then. Good to see 4 groups (Evans, Moxey consortium, Brit abroad & then Carlisle Group) mentioned with then maybe Ashley & possibly the Gary Cook group who have been sniffing around since Alonso. Shows we are still an attractive club to buy. This isnt about points it's about jobs of people and the club existing in the future. a pointless appeals process where we waste more valuable money is criminal. even if we are successful, we may have to sell players to fund the legal case anyway! it is ludicrous! Jimbo Ram and JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 1 hour ago, BondJovi said: Anyone else beyond tired and bored of this? The best interests are to accept whatever points deduction we get and move on. We will finally know where we stand and we can think about trying to move forward. Appeal this, appeal that, just allows the efl to keep slowly screwing us over. Exactly ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 1 hour ago, atherstoneram said: Indeed,the onus is on the club to prove Covid was the cause,it's not on the EFL to disprove it. "Prove" meaning on balance of probabilities ie more than 50%. And as others have said, EFL hasn't exactly helped the case for their defence with their public statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 1 hour ago, BondJovi said: Anyone else beyond tired and bored of this? The best interests are to accept whatever points deduction we get and move on. We will finally know where we stand and we can think about trying to move forward. Appeal this, appeal that, just allows the efl to keep slowly screwing us over. EFL didn't slowly screw over Bury did they? They gave them a few days to finalise a sale and then when that didnt work at first they vaporised them with a death ray. Not just screwing them first but murdering them and boiling the body parts in sulphuric acid to leave not a trace of a 130 year old club. Should we allow EFL to do that to Derby too, without a defence or fight? Kathcairns 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC Kicks Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 7 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: EFL didn't slowly screw over Bury did they? They gave them a few days to finalise a sale and then when that didnt work at first they vaporised them with a death ray. Not just screwing them first but murdering them and boiling the body parts in sulphuric acid to leave not a trace of a 130 year old club. Should we allow EFL to do that to Derby too, without a defence or fight? What would the EFL actually get out of destroying us? Wouldn't they lose out if they a club the size of Derby left the EFL? I can see why they'd want to trap some of the bigger clubs from escaping to the PL, but why would they want them to disappear altogether? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 11 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: EFL didn't slowly screw over Bury did they? They gave them a few days to finalise a sale and then when that didnt work at first they vaporised them with a death ray. Not just screwing them first but murdering them and boiling the body parts in sulphuric acid to leave not a trace of a 130 year old club. Should we allow EFL to do that to Derby too, without a defence or fight? They have us in a corner. Any appeal costs two things, time and money, which just happen to be two luxuries we don't have. I don't believe it helps us one bit to still be bickering with the efl come January. kevinhectoring 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 7 minutes ago, BondJovi said: They have us in a corner. Any appeal costs two things, time and money, which just happen to be two luxuries we don't have. I don't believe it helps us one bit to still be bickering with the efl come January. As far as I can see (despite the headline saying we are "at war"), we are trying to reach an agreement on an appropriate penalty for previous ovesrpending. We are offering to accept a six point deduction for going into administration even though the appropriate deduction if covid is the cause is nil points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 18 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said: What would the EFL actually get out of destroying us? Wouldn't they lose out if they a club the size of Derby left the EFL? I can see why they'd want to trap some of the bigger clubs from escaping to the PL, but why would they want them to disappear altogether? The weaselly self righteous mantra they come out with is "to preserve the integrity of the league". Meanwhile the Premier league accepts new owners of regimes that murder journalists for telling the truth, glad to see integrity being preserved there . Kathcairns, Ram-Alf, DCFC Kicks and 1 other 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 (edited) 50 minutes ago, alram said: but it is not going to make a difference is it? even if the deduction was completely wiped we are still not in a secure place in the championship, as said above, it seems like a ridiclous waste of money that could be used elsewhere. we have had pointless legal battles to no avail for years and years now, it's time to pack it in and focus going forward. i must admit i am not impressed at all with how the administrators have conducted themselves so far If this is part of the overall negotiation with EFL and we end up doing a deal, it doesn’t cost 300k, nowhere near. It’s merely the cost of writing the appeal papers Edited October 10, 2021 by kevinhectoring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 35 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: EFL didn't slowly screw over Bury did they? They gave them a few days to finalise a sale and then when that didnt work at first they vaporised them with a death ray. Not just screwing them first but murdering them and boiling the body parts in sulphuric acid to leave not a trace of a 130 year old club. Should we allow EFL to do that to Derby too, without a defence or fight? They haven’t gone far enough in my view. They should expunge all FA Cup wins from the record too. Mucker1884, TheresOnlyWanChope, Crewton and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 I hate it when we get called 'County' Mucker1884, Foxy Ram, Adslegend and 3 others 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bald Eagle's Barmy Army Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 With how Quantuma have handled things so far, can they put a bid in and run the club please. Dethorn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheresOnlyWanChope Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 53 minutes ago, alram said: This isnt about points it's about jobs of people and the club existing in the future. a pointless appeals process where we waste more valuable money is criminal. even if we are successful, we may have to sell players to fund the legal case anyway! it is ludicrous! If Derby is successful it could be the difference between relegation and staying up. Don't see how its ludicrous if they think there is a strong case. Crewton, Woodley Ram, Hector was the best and 3 others 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 6 minutes ago, i-Ram said: They haven’t gone far enough in my view. They should expunge all FA Cup wins from the record too. Especially 6-0 wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 Fwiw I think the appeal is of merit. Let us not forget it is Administrators, men of accounting acumen, who are lodging this appeal. They will be tooled up to put forward a convincing case. The appeal is not on behalf of the Club either, as their responsibility is to get the best deal for the Creditors. The Club will look more of an attractive purchase if League One football next season is anything other than a certainty. Adslegend, Andicis, ariotofmyown and 5 others 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 52 minutes ago, alram said: This isnt about points it's about jobs of people and the club existing in the future. a pointless appeals process where we waste more valuable money is criminal. even if we are successful, we may have to sell players to fund the legal case anyway! it is ludicrous! Do you imagine that relegation, which you seem to be advocating, wouldn't result in even more job losses, nor threaten the future existence of the club? The blasé way in which some fans seem to want the Club/Administrators to simply roll over and accept whatever punishment the EFL want to mete out, in some cases mainly (it seems) because they're "bored with it all" is quite staggering. Unlike Wigan, DCFC's case is based on a full season of heavily impacted revenues. The argument that the owner could simply have made up the difference, or that he shouldn't have allowed the club to get into financial difficulties in the first place doesn't negate the impact of the pandemic. I expect it to fail, because such a precedent is the last thing the EFL would want, but I'm pleased they're willing to try it, if only to keep our season alive. Adslegend, Hector was the best, i-Ram and 5 others 4 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 8 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: I hate it when we get called 'County' They shoudl use the full name, Wayne Rooney's Derby County. Ted McMinn Football Genius 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodley Ram Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 3 hours ago, PistoldPete said: I don't really understand this story. My understanding is that the 12 point deduction is an all or nothing thing. According to the rules as I understand them, If covid was the most proximate cause of the administraton then the deduction should be zero points. If it was not then, it should be 12 points. No other ifs or buts or mitigating factors that could reduce it in half. Unless .. we are saying .. we haven't got time to fight this through the courts or tribunals, let's do a deal now and get certainty. Also EFL asking for our books over six years.. haven't they had them already? I’m not sure the relevance of the books going back that far, also don’t they already have them? I would have thought this should be based on the Covid era and perhaps the year before. That way you can see that debts could be paid and then due to Covid they couldn’t. It should be a slam dunk as it obvious that Covid had a major affect on operating capital. The question is was it enough to go broke? I think the fact that other clubs haven’t is a red herring. It’s up to the owners if they want to keep funding to replace lack of operating funds. You cannot expect them to do it and isn’t the purpose of P&S/FFP to stop them doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 3 hours ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said: It could be a third of that and the point would still stand. Disgaree. The difference between Champ and L1 is about ten million so IF there is money in the budget to appeal, and we think we have a decent case, then we should. I still don’t think it’ll come to it. EFL won’t want to lose a covid force majeure case - I think we will settle out of the appeals process on all points deductions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 21 minutes ago, rammieib said: Disgaree. The difference between Champ and L1 is about ten million so IF there is money in the budget to appeal, and we think we have a decent case, then we should. I still don’t think it’ll come to it. EFL won’t want to lose a covid force majeure case - I think we will settle out of the appeals process on all points deductions. What’s our decent case ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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