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Players asked to defer wages


Gringo

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45 minutes ago, Rambalin said:

The 28 day rule can become zero days if the fan groups say they cannot raise the funds which would in our case would be a big help and quicken the process if there is a buyer 

I think Rams Trust are the only "recognised" supporter group; they have already indicated on Twitter that they don't want to pursue ownership. I know they have been invited to meet with the administrators and think this is happening fairly quickly. 

 

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45 minutes ago, Rambalin said:

The 28 day rule can become zero days if the fan groups say they cannot raise the funds which would in our case would be a big help and quicken the process if there is a buyer 

28 day period surely irrelevant. The A has to do a deal with a buyer, and for that a deal probably has to be done with EFl and major creditors. That will take more than 28 days and even if it doesn’t the buyer can agree to buy subject to there being no fans offer 

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6 minutes ago, jono said:

I disagree. I think the players do want to play for WR and the Rams. Our start to the season and the WBA game followed by the Stoke game show that very clearly. 

I was simply making the point that none payment of wages is a breach of contract so legally any player could walk and take his registration with him. It’s a potential gamble by the admins …. More possible point deductions AND losing a contested player with a financial value

of course the story could be gossip - we will find out in the next 7 days I guess ! 

I think that's what he meant, Jono. Rest of post would suggest that.

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If deferring allows the administrators to pay our staff's wages, giving them an extra month to look for work outside of Derby County then I hope the players will do it - even though I agree they shouldn't have to from a moral perspective.

If the players agree to it and the staff still don't get paid this month then sod it, I'd be demanding my pay as a player or buggering off. They'd just be pushing the problem of paying wages further down the line which is not a 'sustainable' approach. 

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3 hours ago, CBRammette said:

Legally yes totally but morally?!

Sadly, there is no objective definition of what the moral position should be. 

What seems to be the case is that the most successful "business people" are emotionally able to decouple themselves from worrying about significant harm happening outside of their nearest and dearest. Which sometimes appears to be solely themselves. 

The majority of us on here are not seemingly in that space. Certainly, speaking from personal experience, my wife took a very different moral position in her business. And it went bust so ultimately she got no credit for her position. 

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27 minutes ago, angieram said:

I think that's what he meant, Jono. Rest of post would suggest that.

Yes @angieram and @Rich84 .. i was perhaps a little hasty - it was the first sentence that really triggered my response. 
 

Anyway, I guess we’ll find out .. I think my concern is not so much the points deductions but the potential to simply lose players before the fight has begun. 
 

 

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1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

? Which is of course 2/3rds of £4.5k.

Obviously not the players fault were in such a mess however it must be heart breaking for them surviving on 3 grand a week how will they make ends meet,i said on a post yesterday this would happen were wages were not paid properly and you think these same players will give a damm on the field,lets hope the administrators pull a rabbit out of the hat and keep us out of liquidation not sure if i am that hopeful to be honest,who is going to pump millions in to a league 1 side with massive debts that dont own there own ground it still belongs in theory to Mel. 

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2 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

 

Not punished, as such, I meant not coerced into it. They should feel as though they can say no if they want too - I'd imagine some are more comfortable than others at the thought of deferring a third of their wage. I personally wouldn't be comfortable with it. A few of our players, presumably, are high earners. The majority won't be. 

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Administrator stated priority is initiating interim funding and no wage deferral is on the cards. Squad pay and WR contract seemingly not in jeopardy

Media circus bull poo rolls on, it will be perpetual, disregard 99% of what's 'revealed' - I do.

The Administrators will just carry on with the job. 

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1 hour ago, ramboy63 said:

Obviously not the players fault were in such a mess however it must be heart breaking for them surviving on 3 grand a week how will they make ends meet

I’m sorry but this type of comment always rankles with me.

It’s based on the assumption that a) every footballer is super rich and b) that they have similar or comparable outgoings as you or I….

Based on the UK average the average wage is £30,000 (nett £1850 a month). The average mortgage repayment is £750 a month. Meaning the average persons mortgage is approx 40% of his wage….

What have you done with the extra money you’ve been paid since the start of your working life? Pay rises, bonuses etc?

I assume like me you didn’t manage to save much of it and made a choice to enjoy lifestyle improvements….new clothes, a nicer car, a bigger house, weddings, start a family? So it’s fair to say most ‘cut their cloth’ accordingly? 

That leaves a footballer earning £10,000 a week with a mortgage of somewhere between £15-£20,000 a month……

Oh I forgot…..you and I will have most likely taken out their mortgage in our mid twenties and expected to pay it off sometime between 50 and 60 ready for a nice retirement, maybe over a period of 25 years? That gives your average footballer a 10 year window of earning opportunity before he’s cast adrift at 34/35 and someone makes a decision to retire him!!! I don’t know the math involved in that but assuming the repayments on a mortgage of that size paid over 10 years is considerably more than when paid over 25 years?

In short, not many footballers are paying off a mortgage of £750 a month whilst driving a 5 year old VW Passat. Their outgoings will be very much in line with their earnings and their retirement age!

Im not saying there should be an outpouring of sympathy compared with staff that will inevitably lose their jobs but let’s be realistic at least.

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2 hours ago, angieram said:

I think that's what he meant, Jono. Rest of post would suggest that.

Thanks @angieram, I was trying to say the fight and spirit shown suggests they will stick around even if wages are deferred,  was early in the morning..... i agree with @jonothat technically non payment of wages is a breach of contract, but if it is agreed then fair enough,you may dislike it but accept it (as per RR and other husinesses) but look at Sheff Weds, they just didn't get paid and they stuck around

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4 minutes ago, Rich84 said:

Thanks @angieram, I was trying to say the fight and spirit shown suggests they will stick around even if wages are deferred,  was early in the morning..... i agree with @jonothat technically non payment of wages is a breach of contract, but if it is agreed then fair enough,you may dislike it but accept it (as per RR and other husinesses) but look at Sheff Weds, they just didn't get paid and they stuck around

Wouldn't they get their 'back pay' owed even if they moved on? Football debts? I'm sure some Wendies player did that?

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41 minutes ago, Ravabeerbelly said:

I’m sorry but this type of comment always rankles with me.

It’s based on the assumption that a) every footballer is super rich and b) that they have similar or comparable outgoings as you or I….

Based on the UK average the average wage is £30,000 (nett £1850 a month). The average mortgage repayment is £750 a month. Meaning the average persons mortgage is approx 40% of his wage….

What have you done with the extra money you’ve been paid since the start of your working life? Pay rises, bonuses etc?

I assume like me you didn’t manage to save much of it and made a choice to enjoy lifestyle improvements….new clothes, a nicer car, a bigger house, weddings, start a family? So it’s fair to say most ‘cut their cloth’ accordingly? 

That leaves a footballer earning £10,000 a week with a mortgage of somewhere between £15-£20,000 a month……

Oh I forgot…..you and I will have most likely taken out their mortgage in our mid twenties and expected to pay it off sometime between 50 and 60 ready for a nice retirement, maybe over a period of 25 years? That gives your average footballer a 10 year window of earning opportunity before he’s cast adrift at 34/35 and someone makes a decision to retire him!!! I don’t know the math involved in that but assuming the repayments on a mortgage of that size paid over 10 years is considerably more than when paid over 25 years?

In short, not many footballers are paying off a mortgage of £750 a month whilst driving a 5 year old VW Passat. Their outgoings will be very much in line with their earnings and their retirement age!

Im not saying there should be an outpouring of sympathy compared with staff that will inevitably lose their jobs but let’s be realistic at least.

I understand your point, but I seriously doubt there's a Derby player with a £20,000 per month mortgage.

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6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Wouldn't they get their 'back pay' owed even if they moved on? Football debts? I'm sure some Wendies player did that?

I'm sure they would, and did, just that they didn't pack their kit bag and leave due to breach of contract, not sure what would have happened if they had of left and therefore not been available to play though....

I just think it's another thing people can unnecessarily panic/stress about as it doesn't typically happen, and i don't think they can't just rock up to another club until the next transfer window anyway

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54 minutes ago, Ravabeerbelly said:

I’m sorry but this type of comment always rankles with me.

It’s based on the assumption that a) every footballer is super rich and b) that they have similar or comparable outgoings as you or I….

Based on the UK average the average wage is £30,000 (nett £1850 a month). The average mortgage repayment is £750 a month. Meaning the average persons mortgage is approx 40% of his wage….

What have you done with the extra money you’ve been paid since the start of your working life? Pay rises, bonuses etc?

I assume like me you didn’t manage to save much of it and made a choice to enjoy lifestyle improvements….new clothes, a nicer car, a bigger house, weddings, start a family? So it’s fair to say most ‘cut their cloth’ accordingly? 

That leaves a footballer earning £10,000 a week with a mortgage of somewhere between £15-£20,000 a month……

Oh I forgot…..you and I will have most likely taken out their mortgage in our mid twenties and expected to pay it off sometime between 50 and 60 ready for a nice retirement, maybe over a period of 25 years? That gives your average footballer a 10 year window of earning opportunity before he’s cast adrift at 34/35 and someone makes a decision to retire him!!! I don’t know the math involved in that but assuming the repayments on a mortgage of that size paid over 10 years is considerably more than when paid over 25 years?

In short, not many footballers are paying off a mortgage of £750 a month whilst driving a 5 year old VW Passat. Their outgoings will be very much in line with their earnings and their retirement age!

Im not saying there should be an outpouring of sympathy compared with staff that will inevitably lose their jobs but let’s be realistic at least.

Just because they "retire" from playing doesn't mean they retire full stop.Some find something else within the game,others outside.

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4 minutes ago, Rich84 said:

I'm sure they would, and did, just that they didn't pack their kit bag and leave due to breach of contract, not sure what would have happened if they had of left and therefore not been available to play though....

I just think it's another thing people can unnecessarily panic/stress about as it doesn't typically happen, and i don't think they can't just rock up to another club until the next transfer window anyway

Yeah, I just meant they may as well stay. I'm sure most want to give their very best for the club's future.

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