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A Supporters Trust


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Supporters Trust/Consortium POLL!!!!  

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Its pretty dispiriting reading some of these replies. In the situation we find ourselves in, there seems to be a blind faith that a benevolent group of 'investors' will come in & make everything alright. Have we not learnt anything?

In normal times, Derby earn circa 30m turnover...some of it TV money but majority ticket sales & merchanise sales. To put into context, our non-TV turnover will be top 5 in the EFL & in terms of overall turnover, only the clubs with parachute payments will exceed that. The point here is that we have a massive advantage over most at this level & hence the balanced budgets a Supporters Trust would be required to run  would be a realistic ambition to financially run a top 10 Championship club. For those thinking this would be our ceiling, I would argue a) its a damned sight better than where we are now & b) being in that group would keep us in the hunt for a playoff spot especially if we have a breakthrough moment with a very good manager or youth crop/savvy transfers coming good

In terms of organising it, yes the Ramstrust would be the vehicle. I spoke to the Football Supporters Federation back in May about this & they confirmed support/advice would go to Ramstrust as first refusal. Reality though is the supporters trust must be representative of the fanbase hence elections & people being held accountable i.e. the current group can be moulded away from what people perceive them to be at present

The best practice of Trust ownership currently are AFC Wimbledon, 4th in League One with a new stadium. Much smaller fanbase than us & rose from deep non-league. It can be done. We dont realise how powerful we are as fans & our club has a bigger reach than most.

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I want to be able to dream of Derby playing at the highest level successfully. There is no reason that this cannot be achieved with good professional owners with a vision passion and the means to achieve it. There are many brilliant owners out there who have helped their clubs to punch well above their weight.

I don't want to think that we can only ever be an Exeter or a Wimbledon..no offense to those clubs but we are way bigger than that. And I'm sorry but the thought of Ramstrust being the vehicle to secure the future of our great club should be enough to give every Derby fan nightmares.

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On 18/09/2021 at 12:09, LeedsCityRam said:

Its pretty dispiriting reading some of these replies. In the situation we find ourselves in, there seems to be a blind faith that a benevolent group of 'investors' will come in & make everything alright. Have we not learnt anything?

In normal times, Derby earn circa 30m turnover...some of it TV money but majority ticket sales & merchanise sales. To put into context, our non-TV turnover will be top 5 in the EFL & in terms of overall turnover, only the clubs with parachute payments will exceed that. The point here is that we have a massive advantage over most at this level & hence the balanced budgets a Supporters Trust would be required to run  would be a realistic ambition to financially run a top 10 Championship club. For those thinking this would be our ceiling, I would argue a) its a damned sight better than where we are now & b) being in that group would keep us in the hunt for a playoff spot especially if we have a breakthrough moment with a very good manager or youth crop/savvy transfers coming good

In terms of organising it, yes the Ramstrust would be the vehicle. I spoke to the Football Supporters Federation back in May about this & they confirmed support/advice would go to Ramstrust as first refusal. Reality though is the supporters trust must be representative of the fanbase hence elections & people being held accountable i.e. the current group can be moulded away from what people perceive them to be at present

The best practice of Trust ownership currently are AFC Wimbledon, 4th in League One with a new stadium. Much smaller fanbase than us & rose from deep non-league. It can be done. We dont realise how powerful we are as fans & our club has a bigger reach than most.

How do we get started then? 

Mel put it out there in his interview, he'd listen to a fan led buy-out. Probably because he has to entertain such an offer under Administration mind, but how do we go about it?

Can we put some flesh on the bones regarding such an undertaking?

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On 18/09/2021 at 07:09, LeedsCityRam said:

Its pretty dispiriting reading some of these replies. In the situation we find ourselves in, there seems to be a blind faith that a benevolent group of 'investors' will come in & make everything alright. Have we not learnt anything?

In normal times, Derby earn circa 30m turnover...some of it TV money but majority ticket sales & merchanise sales. To put into context, our non-TV turnover will be top 5 in the EFL & in terms of overall turnover, only the clubs with parachute payments will exceed that. The point here is that we have a massive advantage over most at this level & hence the balanced budgets a Supporters Trust would be required to run  would be a realistic ambition to financially run a top 10 Championship club. For those thinking this would be our ceiling, I would argue a) its a damned sight better than where we are now & b) being in that group would keep us in the hunt for a playoff spot especially if we have a breakthrough moment with a very good manager or youth crop/savvy transfers coming good

In terms of organising it, yes the Ramstrust would be the vehicle. I spoke to the Football Supporters Federation back in May about this & they confirmed support/advice would go to Ramstrust as first refusal. Reality though is the supporters trust must be representative of the fanbase hence elections & people being held accountable i.e. the current group can be moulded away from what people perceive them to be at present

The best practice of Trust ownership currently are AFC Wimbledon, 4th in League One with a new stadium. Much smaller fanbase than us & rose from deep non-league. It can be done. We dont realise how powerful we are as fans & our club has a bigger reach than most.

Actual income based on historical data is as follows

Revenue approx £30m

Gate receipts £9.1m. - 30% of revenue

TV money £8.2m - 27% of revenue

Shirts etc £0.275m - 1% of revenue

Commercial activities £4m - 13% of revenue

Sponsorship £5m -17% of revenue

other activities £3m - 10% of revenue

Note how low gate receipts and shirt sales are in terms of revenue.

Dropping to league 1 would reduce TV money to less than £2m preseason, sponsorship would fall away to sub £2m and attendance would fall to any number you can think of but I guess about £5m so in total I think revenue would only be £15m at best falling to league 1 will be a disaster, from which I think it would not recover in 3or4 years.

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11 minutes ago, Charlotte Ram said:

Actual income based on historical data is as follows

Revenue approx £30m

Gate receipts £9.1m. - 30% of revenue

TV money £8.2m - 27% of revenue

Shirts etc £0.275m - 1% of revenue

Commercial activities £4m - 13% of revenue

Sponsorship £5m -17% of revenue

other activities £3m - 10% of revenue

Note how low gate receipts and shirt sales are in terms of revenue.

Dropping to league 1 would reduce TV money to less than £2m preseason, sponsorship would fall away to sub £2m and attendance would fall to any number you can think of but I guess about £5m so in total I think revenue would only be £15m at best falling to league 1 will be a disaster, from which I think it would not recover in 3or4 years.

I'd prefer a football club we could sustain in League One with a £15m revenue, than one we can't a league above with £30m coming through the door.

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1 hour ago, Rev said:

How do we get started then? 

Mel put it out there in his interview, he'd listen to a fan led buy-out. Probably because he has to entertain such an offer under Administration mind, but how do we go about it?

Can we put some flesh on the bones regarding such an undertaking?

https://dcfcfans.uk/topic/37498-the-concept-of-a-fan-owned-club/page/8/#comments

No problem - I spoke to a chap at the Football Supporters Federation back in May & asked him a few questions about what it could look like (link from original topic about feasibility of a fan owned club & my post attached)

I also sketched out an action plan about how this could happen (below). The other chap at the FSF (who was on holiday when I called) actually led the fan buyout of Portsmouth & so would be a fantastic reference point if we were serious about doing it;

image.thumb.png.984fa930c5c38a664402cbcdf9914670.png

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On 18/09/2021 at 13:36, Yani P said:

And I'm sorry but the thought of Ramstrust being the vehicle to secure the future of our great club should be enough to give every Derby fan nightmares.

That is pretty shortsighted. If Ramstrust became the vehicle then everyone would become members of Ramstrust, not just the current small group, and you could vote in a professional leadership! The name of the vehicle doesn't matter. What matters is that it includes provision for fan membership and voting for a professional management team.

 

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52 minutes ago, Charlotte Ram said:

Actual income based on historical data is as follows

Revenue approx £30m

Gate receipts £9.1m. - 30% of revenue

TV money £8.2m - 27% of revenue

Shirts etc £0.275m - 1% of revenue

Commercial activities £4m - 13% of revenue

Sponsorship £5m -17% of revenue

other activities £3m - 10% of revenue

Note how low gate receipts and shirt sales are in terms of revenue.

Dropping to league 1 would reduce TV money to less than £2m preseason, sponsorship would fall away to sub £2m and attendance would fall to any number you can think of but I guess about £5m so in total I think revenue would only be £15m at best falling to league 1 will be a disaster, from which I think it would not recover in 3or4 years.

Yes specifically on gate receipts & shirt sales but the numbers on commercial activities/sponsorship are a reflection of our status as a club & the interest levels that status generates. These are natural advantages over the likes of Preston, Luton, Barnsley, Birmingham etc. The TV money is the only area where there would be parity with other clubs & that is less than 30% of our turnover.

Re League One, again you may be right on those numbers but don't understand your assumption on recovery taking a number of years. We have a low wage bill with saleable assets meaning we can generate cash - with practically nothing in the way of current squad deadwood/high wage obligations. If we're relegated purely because of points deduction, that surely indicates the basis of a team that are likely to do well in League One?

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I think on a short term basis, it costs a fortune to run a club. not everyone can keep putting in money every year. Im in untill we get new owners. we need to see if we need to pay wages and complete the season. 

so how much.....I would put £1,000 and more if needed  

Edited by Woodley Ram
I cnnot spelll
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9 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Yes specifically on gate receipts & shirt sales but the numbers on commercial activities/sponsorship are a reflection of our status as a club & the interest levels that status generates. These are natural advantages over the likes of Preston, Luton, Barnsley, Birmingham etc. The TV money is the only area where there would be parity with other clubs & that is less than 30% of our turnover.

Re League One, again you may be right on those numbers but don't understand your assumption on recovery taking a number of years. We have a low wage bill with saleable assets meaning we can generate cash - with practically nothing in the way of current squad deadwood/high wage obligations. If we're relegated purely because of points deduction, that surely indicates the basis of a team that are likely to do well in League One?

Surely depends on who leaves … and how we’re left with

And how many more years we can squeeze out of poor old fozzy 

he must be proper fed up of this circus by now bless him

Edited by NottsRam77
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No no no  - I wouldnt want to see ramstrust anywhere near the running of the club.  My opinion of them is they think they are some kind of 'elite' supporters, I believe that they genuinely think they are more intelligent than the ordinary supporter and know better than ordinary supporters.

Trust ?,,,,,,,,,,,, I wouldn't trust any of them.  George Orwells Animal Farm springs to mind !!!

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1 hour ago, Keepyuppy said:

No no no  - I wouldnt want to see ramstrust anywhere near the running of the club.  My opinion of them is they think they are some kind of 'elite' supporters, I believe that they genuinely think they are more intelligent than the ordinary supporter and know better than ordinary supporters.

Trust ?,,,,,,,,,,,, I wouldn't trust any of them.  George Orwells Animal Farm springs to mind !!!

This, imagine the egos

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