LeedsCityRam Posted September 18, 2021 Share Posted September 18, 2021 Its pretty dispiriting reading some of these replies. In the situation we find ourselves in, there seems to be a blind faith that a benevolent group of 'investors' will come in & make everything alright. Have we not learnt anything? In normal times, Derby earn circa 30m turnover...some of it TV money but majority ticket sales & merchanise sales. To put into context, our non-TV turnover will be top 5 in the EFL & in terms of overall turnover, only the clubs with parachute payments will exceed that. The point here is that we have a massive advantage over most at this level & hence the balanced budgets a Supporters Trust would be required to run would be a realistic ambition to financially run a top 10 Championship club. For those thinking this would be our ceiling, I would argue a) its a damned sight better than where we are now & b) being in that group would keep us in the hunt for a playoff spot especially if we have a breakthrough moment with a very good manager or youth crop/savvy transfers coming good In terms of organising it, yes the Ramstrust would be the vehicle. I spoke to the Football Supporters Federation back in May about this & they confirmed support/advice would go to Ramstrust as first refusal. Reality though is the supporters trust must be representative of the fanbase hence elections & people being held accountable i.e. the current group can be moulded away from what people perceive them to be at present The best practice of Trust ownership currently are AFC Wimbledon, 4th in League One with a new stadium. Much smaller fanbase than us & rose from deep non-league. It can be done. We dont realise how powerful we are as fans & our club has a bigger reach than most. Zag zig, ariotofmyown, Inverurie Ram and 11 others 7 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yani P Posted September 18, 2021 Share Posted September 18, 2021 I want to be able to dream of Derby playing at the highest level successfully. There is no reason that this cannot be achieved with good professional owners with a vision passion and the means to achieve it. There are many brilliant owners out there who have helped their clubs to punch well above their weight. I don't want to think that we can only ever be an Exeter or a Wimbledon..no offense to those clubs but we are way bigger than that. And I'm sorry but the thought of Ramstrust being the vehicle to secure the future of our great club should be enough to give every Derby fan nightmares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRam77 Posted September 18, 2021 Share Posted September 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Ram1988 said: If it works for massive clubs in Germany why couldn't it work for Derby County? A new Derby way ? Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRam77 Posted September 18, 2021 Share Posted September 18, 2021 We cant agree on anything on here nevermind in a board room bimmerman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 On 18/09/2021 at 12:09, LeedsCityRam said: Its pretty dispiriting reading some of these replies. In the situation we find ourselves in, there seems to be a blind faith that a benevolent group of 'investors' will come in & make everything alright. Have we not learnt anything? In normal times, Derby earn circa 30m turnover...some of it TV money but majority ticket sales & merchanise sales. To put into context, our non-TV turnover will be top 5 in the EFL & in terms of overall turnover, only the clubs with parachute payments will exceed that. The point here is that we have a massive advantage over most at this level & hence the balanced budgets a Supporters Trust would be required to run would be a realistic ambition to financially run a top 10 Championship club. For those thinking this would be our ceiling, I would argue a) its a damned sight better than where we are now & b) being in that group would keep us in the hunt for a playoff spot especially if we have a breakthrough moment with a very good manager or youth crop/savvy transfers coming good In terms of organising it, yes the Ramstrust would be the vehicle. I spoke to the Football Supporters Federation back in May about this & they confirmed support/advice would go to Ramstrust as first refusal. Reality though is the supporters trust must be representative of the fanbase hence elections & people being held accountable i.e. the current group can be moulded away from what people perceive them to be at present The best practice of Trust ownership currently are AFC Wimbledon, 4th in League One with a new stadium. Much smaller fanbase than us & rose from deep non-league. It can be done. We dont realise how powerful we are as fans & our club has a bigger reach than most. How do we get started then? Mel put it out there in his interview, he'd listen to a fan led buy-out. Probably because he has to entertain such an offer under Administration mind, but how do we go about it? Can we put some flesh on the bones regarding such an undertaking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 On 18/09/2021 at 07:09, LeedsCityRam said: Its pretty dispiriting reading some of these replies. In the situation we find ourselves in, there seems to be a blind faith that a benevolent group of 'investors' will come in & make everything alright. Have we not learnt anything? In normal times, Derby earn circa 30m turnover...some of it TV money but majority ticket sales & merchanise sales. To put into context, our non-TV turnover will be top 5 in the EFL & in terms of overall turnover, only the clubs with parachute payments will exceed that. The point here is that we have a massive advantage over most at this level & hence the balanced budgets a Supporters Trust would be required to run would be a realistic ambition to financially run a top 10 Championship club. For those thinking this would be our ceiling, I would argue a) its a damned sight better than where we are now & b) being in that group would keep us in the hunt for a playoff spot especially if we have a breakthrough moment with a very good manager or youth crop/savvy transfers coming good In terms of organising it, yes the Ramstrust would be the vehicle. I spoke to the Football Supporters Federation back in May about this & they confirmed support/advice would go to Ramstrust as first refusal. Reality though is the supporters trust must be representative of the fanbase hence elections & people being held accountable i.e. the current group can be moulded away from what people perceive them to be at present The best practice of Trust ownership currently are AFC Wimbledon, 4th in League One with a new stadium. Much smaller fanbase than us & rose from deep non-league. It can be done. We dont realise how powerful we are as fans & our club has a bigger reach than most. Actual income based on historical data is as follows Revenue approx £30m Gate receipts £9.1m. - 30% of revenue TV money £8.2m - 27% of revenue Shirts etc £0.275m - 1% of revenue Commercial activities £4m - 13% of revenue Sponsorship £5m -17% of revenue other activities £3m - 10% of revenue Note how low gate receipts and shirt sales are in terms of revenue. Dropping to league 1 would reduce TV money to less than £2m preseason, sponsorship would fall away to sub £2m and attendance would fall to any number you can think of but I guess about £5m so in total I think revenue would only be £15m at best falling to league 1 will be a disaster, from which I think it would not recover in 3or4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 11 minutes ago, Charlotte Ram said: Actual income based on historical data is as follows Revenue approx £30m Gate receipts £9.1m. - 30% of revenue TV money £8.2m - 27% of revenue Shirts etc £0.275m - 1% of revenue Commercial activities £4m - 13% of revenue Sponsorship £5m -17% of revenue other activities £3m - 10% of revenue Note how low gate receipts and shirt sales are in terms of revenue. Dropping to league 1 would reduce TV money to less than £2m preseason, sponsorship would fall away to sub £2m and attendance would fall to any number you can think of but I guess about £5m so in total I think revenue would only be £15m at best falling to league 1 will be a disaster, from which I think it would not recover in 3or4 years. I'd prefer a football club we could sustain in League One with a £15m revenue, than one we can't a league above with £30m coming through the door. bimmerman and EtoileSportiveDeDerby 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsCityRam Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Rev said: How do we get started then? Mel put it out there in his interview, he'd listen to a fan led buy-out. Probably because he has to entertain such an offer under Administration mind, but how do we go about it? Can we put some flesh on the bones regarding such an undertaking? https://dcfcfans.uk/topic/37498-the-concept-of-a-fan-owned-club/page/8/#comments No problem - I spoke to a chap at the Football Supporters Federation back in May & asked him a few questions about what it could look like (link from original topic about feasibility of a fan owned club & my post attached) I also sketched out an action plan about how this could happen (below). The other chap at the FSF (who was on holiday when I called) actually led the fan buyout of Portsmouth & so would be a fantastic reference point if we were serious about doing it; Shuff264 and Rev 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AutoWindscreens Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 On 18/09/2021 at 13:36, Yani P said: And I'm sorry but the thought of Ramstrust being the vehicle to secure the future of our great club should be enough to give every Derby fan nightmares. That is pretty shortsighted. If Ramstrust became the vehicle then everyone would become members of Ramstrust, not just the current small group, and you could vote in a professional leadership! The name of the vehicle doesn't matter. What matters is that it includes provision for fan membership and voting for a professional management team. JoetheRam, LeedsCityRam, CornwallRam and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsCityRam Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 52 minutes ago, Charlotte Ram said: Actual income based on historical data is as follows Revenue approx £30m Gate receipts £9.1m. - 30% of revenue TV money £8.2m - 27% of revenue Shirts etc £0.275m - 1% of revenue Commercial activities £4m - 13% of revenue Sponsorship £5m -17% of revenue other activities £3m - 10% of revenue Note how low gate receipts and shirt sales are in terms of revenue. Dropping to league 1 would reduce TV money to less than £2m preseason, sponsorship would fall away to sub £2m and attendance would fall to any number you can think of but I guess about £5m so in total I think revenue would only be £15m at best falling to league 1 will be a disaster, from which I think it would not recover in 3or4 years. Yes specifically on gate receipts & shirt sales but the numbers on commercial activities/sponsorship are a reflection of our status as a club & the interest levels that status generates. These are natural advantages over the likes of Preston, Luton, Barnsley, Birmingham etc. The TV money is the only area where there would be parity with other clubs & that is less than 30% of our turnover. Re League One, again you may be right on those numbers but don't understand your assumption on recovery taking a number of years. We have a low wage bill with saleable assets meaning we can generate cash - with practically nothing in the way of current squad deadwood/high wage obligations. If we're relegated purely because of points deduction, that surely indicates the basis of a team that are likely to do well in League One? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodley Ram Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 (edited) I think on a short term basis, it costs a fortune to run a club. not everyone can keep putting in money every year. Im in untill we get new owners. we need to see if we need to pay wages and complete the season. so how much.....I would put £1,000 and more if needed Edited September 19, 2021 by Woodley Ram I cnnot spelll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967RAMS Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 On 18/09/2021 at 13:42, NottsRam77 said: We cant agree on anything on here nevermind in a board room Yes we can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 They're not even going to attempt to pull together the means and they want to waive the 28 day window. Seriously, why do they even exist? If this isn't the opportunity for fan-led ownership, then when is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRam77 Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said: Yes specifically on gate receipts & shirt sales but the numbers on commercial activities/sponsorship are a reflection of our status as a club & the interest levels that status generates. These are natural advantages over the likes of Preston, Luton, Barnsley, Birmingham etc. The TV money is the only area where there would be parity with other clubs & that is less than 30% of our turnover. Re League One, again you may be right on those numbers but don't understand your assumption on recovery taking a number of years. We have a low wage bill with saleable assets meaning we can generate cash - with practically nothing in the way of current squad deadwood/high wage obligations. If we're relegated purely because of points deduction, that surely indicates the basis of a team that are likely to do well in League One? Surely depends on who leaves … and how we’re left with And how many more years we can squeeze out of poor old fozzy he must be proper fed up of this circus by now bless him Edited September 19, 2021 by NottsRam77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRam77 Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, 1967RAMS said: Yes we can Oh no we cant lol 1967RAMS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 On 18/09/2021 at 00:46, Ram1988 said: I think it's a great idea in theory. So is communism Tamworthram, Yani P and IronRam 140.6 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepyuppy Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 No no no - I wouldnt want to see ramstrust anywhere near the running of the club. My opinion of them is they think they are some kind of 'elite' supporters, I believe that they genuinely think they are more intelligent than the ordinary supporter and know better than ordinary supporters. Trust ?,,,,,,,,,,,, I wouldn't trust any of them. George Orwells Animal Farm springs to mind !!! Spanish, GrimsbyRam and Philmycock 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philmycock Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Keepyuppy said: No no no - I wouldnt want to see ramstrust anywhere near the running of the club. My opinion of them is they think they are some kind of 'elite' supporters, I believe that they genuinely think they are more intelligent than the ordinary supporter and know better than ordinary supporters. Trust ?,,,,,,,,,,,, I wouldn't trust any of them. George Orwells Animal Farm springs to mind !!! This, imagine the egos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 Just now, Philmycock said: This, imagine the egos Of course you could easily join, and then ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philmycock Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 Just now, RoyMac5 said: Of course you could easily join, and then ... No thanks, I'm a season ticket holder and fan, quite happy with that, that ok with you? RoyMac5 and Keepyuppy 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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