WBA Away

[B4ev6is]

2 hours ago, Shipley Ram said:

I saw a Baggies fan complaining that their ptess didn't work very well against Millwall, a team whose defenders only wanted to take one touch. I say suprise switch to Rowettball for a game, it will be crap to watch but it's only for a game.

No thanks I rather keep our attacking football never ever mention snake football ever ever again.

[rammieib]

25 minutes ago, B4ev6is said:

No thanks I rather keep our attacking football never ever mention snake football ever ever again.

What attacking football?

[B4ev6is]

1 hour ago, rammieib said:

What attacking football?

Until friday I think attacking football been pretty decent of late.

[atherstoneram]

6 hours ago, B4ev6is said:

Until friday I think attacking football been pretty decent of late.

Yes but the idea is to get the ball past the half way line

[Sparkle]

4 hours ago, atherstoneram said:

Yes but the idea is to get the ball past the half way line

We will need to bring it down from the sky then especially vs Birmingham and West Brom and cardiff to name a few.

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

Need three points. We can do the business. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

Be happy with anythong onther than a pasting here to be honest.

I fully expect a loss and a point would be a good result, but even being competetive and losing only narrowly shouldn't be the end of the world. I do fear a bad loss could hit moral which has been pretty good on the on field side.

 

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

We did ok vs Barnsley at back end of last season. I understand that WBA are playing similar style.

Not especially hopeful, but let’s see how we get on vs top level champ side. It will be interesting.

[Alty_Ram]

Honestly can't see us getting anything out of this. Go toe-to-toe with attacking football and they are just man for man better than us and could take us to the cleaners. Go defensive and we won't score and I give us zero chance of holding out for 90 mins.

The points chucked away in our more do-able start are looking costly at the moment. Just can't see us winning too many games so we really need to manage the games where we get our noses out in front better. As for this game, well losing away at West Brom will not define our season so I don't think we need to dwell on any potential defeat here, but results like the capitulation from 3 points to zero in injury time at Peterborough might well be our undoing. Also, in a situation where we are stumbling along at a point a game, any points deduction above a pure token gesture looks terminal.

I won't be finger pointing if this one goes the way I expect, it's a properly tough fixture and arguably the toughest of the season so anything we get from this is a bonus. Two more toughies after this one but then the home games against Reading and Swansea already look massive for our season.

[Jimbo Ram]

11 hours ago, B4ev6is said:

Until friday I think attacking football been pretty decent of late.

Really, we haven't scored many goals....

[Jimbo Ram]

16 minutes ago, Alty_Ram said:

Honestly can't see us getting anything out of this. Go toe-to-toe with attacking football and they are just man for man better than us and could take us to the cleaners. Go defensive and we won't score and I give us zero chance of holding out for 90 mins.

The points chucked away in our more do-able start are looking costly at the moment. Just can't see us winning too many games so we really need to manage the games where we get our noses out in front better. As for this game, well losing away at West Brom will not define our season so I don't think we need to dwell on any potential defeat here, but results like the capitulation from 3 points to zero in injury time at Peterborough might well be our undoing. Also, in a situation where we are stumbling along at a point a game, any points deduction above a pure token gesture looks terminal.

I won't be finger pointing if this one goes the way I expect, it's a properly tough fixture and arguably the toughest of the season so anything we get from this is a bonus. Two more toughies after this one but then the home games against Reading and Swansea already look massive for our season.

Agreed....

[DCFC1388]

Don't expect us to get much out of the game tonight. However, for this game I would match them up and go 3412, we did similar against their manager's Barnsley team last season and did well.

A back 3 would mean we can still play out from the back with the extra centre back vs their 2 forwards as well as having the extra height for their long balls/throws & set pieces. Also, having 2 upfront might help us keep the ball more in attacking positions, plus one of the 2 strikers can utilise the space behind their wing backs. Then leaving Morrison in a position where he can make the most of any space, also if he drops deep Knight can run beyond him & support the front 2.

Roos - Jagielka Stearman Davies - Byrne Knight Bird Buchanan - Morrison - Lawrence Baldock

Subs - Allsop Brown Shinnie Watson Sibley Jozwiak Stretton

[brady1993]

Given their form, style of play and quality they have this is going to be a hard game that I think is worth making a couple gambles on in order to give us a chance to win. If as has been mentioned West Brom set up like Barnsley then they will quickly look to load it forward and aggresively. Generally you have two options facing that; bypass the press entirely and go long or attempt to play through it. Attempting to play through it can be risky but if you manage it you can cut a team wide open. I will presume that we opt for latter the option of trying to play our way through them and in considering I think we need to really think about how we set up, at least personell wise.

The lesson we need to take away from the second half against Forest and from the game against Birmingham is that if we want to play the way we do against these types of teams then we need to think about keep a hold of the ball better and make it harder for the opposition to set  pressing traps around us. In terms of keeping the ball the 4 main problem areas tend to be right now Shinnie, Davies, Sibley and Lawrence with a sizeable gap between the first two and the last two. (Note here I'm not merely talking about them giving up the ball I'm also factoring in how easy they make it for players around them to pass to and/or how much time they dwell on the ball). Of those only Davies has to start really and Shinnie is the one that I'm convinced has to come out from the start; if we start both of these we play right into their hands. 

In terms of what we should do, I think we have a couple options and I'm not sure which is best. If we stick with a 4231 then I think we need to go something roughly like 

Dropping Shinnie, pulling Morrison back and bringing in Watson should give us a greater ability to pass our way through the press and generally control the midfield. Bringing back Jozwiak is important here to give us a reliable player in the final third to link play. I've put Lawrence and Sibley like that because I feel like we can only afford to play one here; I think I'd prefer Sibley but it'd likely be Lawrence.

A slightly different option would be to go like:

Similar to the last one it should allow us to control the midfield better but also by switching formation my guess it will make it easier to play the ball into more advanced positions. Knight's energy will likely help pull them about and stretch them whilst providing a goal threat from midfield (depending on his fitness obviously). Here I'd be strongly encouraging the front three to stay forward and cheat a little by not tracking back, I would want the wide forwards to basically sit in the space behind their wing backs so that if we break the press it's a 3 on 3 with their centre backs.

The other thing worth considering in my book is to play two up front to try and stretch them and give us an "easy" option forwards

A diamond here would make sense to me, again to try and control of the ball through the midfield. Then upfront you've obviously got two willing runners who will look to stretch their back three. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

I'd go for the tried and tested 6-4-0 fromation as we camp in own half and await the inevitable. Obviously though, my tactical nouse is useless and WR will go for a innovative 8-2-0 with the 2 midfielders dropping back to help the defense.

 

[LeedsCityRam]

49 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

Given their form, style of play and quality they have this is going to be a hard game that I think is worth making a couple gambles on in order to give us a chance to win. If as has been mentioned West Brom set up like Barnsley then they will quickly look to load it forward and aggresively. Generally you have two options facing that; bypass the press entirely and go long or attempt to play through it. Attempting to play through it can be risky but if you manage it you can cut a team wide open. I will presume that we opt for latter the option of trying to play our way through them and in considering I think we need to really think about how we set up, at least personell wise.

The lesson we need to take away from the second half against Forest and from the game against Birmingham is that if we want to play the way we do against these types of teams then we need to think about keep a hold of the ball better and make it harder for the opposition to set  pressing traps around us. In terms of keeping the ball the 4 main problem areas tend to be right now Shinnie, Davies, Sibley and Lawrence with a sizeable gap between the first two and the last two. (Note here I'm not merely talking about them giving up the ball I'm also factoring in how easy they make it for players around them to pass to and/or how much time they dwell on the ball). Of those only Davies has to start really and Shinnie is the one that I'm convinced has to come out from the start; if we start both of these we play right into their hands. 

In terms of what we should do, I think we have a couple options and I'm not sure which is best. If we stick with a 4231 then I think we need to go something roughly like 

Dropping Shinnie, pulling Morrison back and bringing in Watson should give us a greater ability to pass our way through the press and generally control the midfield. Bringing back Jozwiak is important here to give us a reliable player in the final third to link play. I've put Lawrence and Sibley like that because I feel like we can only afford to play one here; I think I'd prefer Sibley but it'd likely be Lawrence.

A slightly different option would be to go like:

Similar to the last one it should allow us to control the midfield better but also by switching formation my guess it will make it easier to play the ball into more advanced positions. Knight's energy will likely help pull them about and stretch them whilst providing a goal threat from midfield (depending on his fitness obviously). Here I'd be strongly encouraging the front three to stay forward and cheat a little by not tracking back, I would want the wide forwards to basically sit in the space behind their wing backs so that if we break the press it's a 3 on 3 with their centre backs.

The other thing worth considering in my book is to play two up front to try and stretch them and give us an "easy" option forwards

A diamond here would make sense to me, again to try and control of the ball through the midfield. Then upfront you've obviously got two willing runners who will look to stretch their back three. 

Interesting points as ever & totally agree with your rationale for dropping Shinnie - this is definitely not one for him to start in.

I quite liked the 3 at the back suggested by @DCFC1388 though for precisely the reasons you mention in your first paragraph. West Brom will want to hit the front men as quickly as possible, there will be a lot of aerial stuff in general & they also have very good set pieces (including long throws). In short, I think I'd want the insurance of 3 aerially competent centre halves to deal with that. I do appreciate we are missing Forsyth & may need to bring on Williams for one of the CB for injuries/tiredness (with Buchanan going left side of the 3).

Further up the field, like your suggestion of keeping front players high up the field to stretch the play - that allied to 3 slowish CBs sitting deep should open up a lot of space in midfield which would negate West Brom's furious press & open up space for Morrison & Bird to play/retain possession with Knight providing energy in midfield when we're not in possession & a goal threat when we are. I'd probably start with Lawrence & Baldock up top with Stretton coming on as they tire.

Edited September 14, 2021 by LeedsCityRam

[brady1993]

4 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Interesting points as ever & totally agree with your rationale for dropping Shinnie - this is definitely not one for him to start in.

I quite liked the 3 at the back suggested by @DCFC1388 though for precisely the reasons you mention in your first paragraph. West Brom will want to hit the front men as quickly as possible, there will be a lot of aerial stuff in general & they also have very good set pieces (including long throws). In short, I think I'd want the insurance of 3 aerially competent centre halves to deal with that. I do appreciate we are missing Forsyth & may need to bring on Williams for one of the CB for injuries/tiredness (with Buchanan going left side of the 3).

Further up the field, like your suggestion of keeping front players high up the field to stretch the play - that allied to 3 slowish CBs sitting deep should open up a lot of space in midfield which would negate West Brom's furious press & open up space for Morrison & Bird to play/retain possession with Knight providing energy in midfield when we're not in possession & a goal threat when we are. I'd probably start with Lawrence & Baldock up top with Stretton coming on as they tire.

 

I get the idea and the argument for it in this game particularly. My two main concerns would be that; we'd be adding another player in Stearman who is technically not the best into that build up play possibly making us more suceptible to their press and secondly it's a very slow back three that aren't really comfortable out in those full back areas which could easily lead to the back 3 becoming a back 5 and us getting penned in because of that. If we had somebody like Keogh to bring in then I'd be all for it but honestly I think a back 3 could backfire for us right now. 

[ramboy63]

Yes WBA and Fulham are probably the toughest away games this season as a previous  member stated anything from this game would be a absolute bonus,Keeping in this league will be a massive achievement to be honest even more so if we get whats likely to be points deductions.Not giving up hope though as there are no world beaters in the league,i thought Swansea and Florist would be top six and there both below us  

[DarkFruitsRam7]

Disgracefully, the M&S at Coventry station doesn’t sell Carling. Instead, I’ve gone for something that might please and disgust @Eddie in equal measure.

Edited September 14, 2021 by DarkFruitsRam7

[Derby blood]

9 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Disgracefully, the M&S at Coventry station doesn’t sell Carling. I’ve gone for something that might please and disgust @Eddie in equal measure.

How is the traffic mate, just leaving in a mo, due to my bro being late as per usual lol. Up the Rams, lets make some noise tonight boys. 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

4 minutes ago, Derby blood said:

How is the traffic mate, just leaving in a mo, due to my bro being late as per usual lol. Up the Rams, lets make some noise tonight boys. 

No idea, I’m getting the train from Coventry!