Here's a (tactical) idea for you Wayne...

[leroyoftherovers]

11 minutes ago, 1967Ram said:

Tactically, Bowyer got it right last night and Rooney didn't in my opinion. With them pressing us so high I think we had to be braver and play more longer balls down the channels or over the top to make them have second thoughts about what they were doing.

To do this, we needed to play with at least two up top (when we had the ball) and, for all the long throw-ins, corners etc keep at least two players in attacking positions (I'd rather have three) so we had an 'out ball'. In some games this season we have done this but I didn't notice it happening last night.

Bowyer said after the game that they had to adjust their press in the first half because we were getting out to easily .Second half Rooney did implement your plan by going two upfront to find space in the channels we just couldn't do it or we are not good enough? 

[jimtastic56]

Talking of tactics , I didn’t understand what Bird was doing half way between Curtis and Buchannon. Both goals came from Bird giving passes to players under pressure instead of taking responsibility himself .

[Roots Manuva]

11 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

What doesn't work is no threat up front. #simples

was disappointed to see us not carry on with Lawrence in the ‘false 9’ role he played at Forest. everything seemed to click in an attacking sense in that game before they changed it up second half.

[Gaspode]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Didn't say you said it, it was a question.

How many round pegs were out of place last night? We had as many shots on target as they did!

I'll bite - even though I normally ignore your more obvious arsey comments.

Square pegs? He's expecting both Jags & Curtis to be ball playing centre-halves - not something that they are naturals at....He's picking Roos for his ball-playing ability - something he may show in training, but something he's incapable of doing in pressure situations.....He's playing Bird & Shinnie next to each other which, as we've seen over many games, limits both of them....He's playing Morrison to give us quality going forward, but Morrison is then having to drop back to in front of the centre-halves to get the ball because Bird & Shinnie aren't doing the basics as CDMs...Last night he played Sibley on the right which dramatically limited his effectiveness....He played Tom Lawrence who at times looks more like a square peg than a professional footballer - always on his heels and more often looking for a fight rather than looking to hurt the opposition with his play....

As far as shots on target, maybe we did have as many as they did - who scored the most goals and got the 3 points?

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Gaspode

[RoyMac5]

8 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

I'll bite - even though I normally ignore your more obvious arsey comments.

Square pegs? He's expecting both Jags & Curtis to be ball playing centre-halves - not something that they are naturals at....He's picking Roos for his ball-playing ability - something he may show in training, but something he's incapable of doing in pressure situations.....He's playing Bird & Shinnie next to each other which, as we've seen over many games, limits both of them....He's playing Morrison to give us quality going forward, but Morrison is then having to drop back to in front of the centre-halves to get the ball because Bird & Shinnie aren't doing the basics as CDMs...Last night he played Sibley on the right which dramatically limited his effectiveness....He played Tom Lawrence who at times looks more like a square peg than a professional footballer - always on his heels and more often looking for a fight rather than looking to hurt the opposition with his play....

As far as shots on target, maybe we did have as many as they did - who scored the most goals and got the 3 points?

None of those players are round pegs in square holes, except maybe Shinnie and he was subbed. Jags and Davies played out from the back as well as could be hoped. Roos' kicking off the floor was the real problem. Morrison dropping deep isn't a problem either and gets the ball moving forward well. Sibley's effectiveness isn't (yet) what a lot of fans believe it to be. I was disappointed in Lawrence's overall performance and his petulance nearly got him sent off (but who else is there?).

They scored the most goals not because of our style of play, but because they have (at least) three strikers who would walk into our team to provide a threat up front and force errors. We created chances, we didn't take them. 

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by RoyMac5

[Turnstile]

42 minutes ago, leroyoftherovers said:

Bowyer said after the game that they had to adjust their press in the first half because we were getting out to easily .Second half Rooney did implement your plan by going two upfront to find space in the channels we just couldn't do it or we are not good enough? 

We’re not good enough that’s why Rooney wanted 8 more players.His tactics are woeful though ,as bad as cocu’s.The players just look like rabbits in car headlight.Morris is the one killing us but Rooney seems totally inept.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Turnstile

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Turnstile said:

We’re not good enough that’s why Rooney wanted 8 more players.His tactics are woeful though ,as bad as cocu’s.The players just look like rabbits in car headlight.Morris is the one killing us but Rooney seems totally inept.

How did we look like 'rabbits in car headlights'? When? A poor back pass and a lucky deflection into a players path?

 

[Jimbo Ram]

10 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

None of those players are round pegs in square holes, except maybe Shinnie and he was subbed. Jags and Davies played out from the back as well as could be hoped. Roos' kicking off the floor was the real problem. Morrison dropping deep isn't a problem either and gets the ball moving forward well. Sibley's effectiveness isn't (yet) what a lot of fans believe it to be. I was disappointed in Lawrence's overall performance and his petulance nearly got him sent off (but who else is there?).

They scored the most goals not because of our style of play, but because they have (at least) three strikers who would walk into our team to provide a threat up front and force errors. We created chances, we didn't take them. 

 

One real chance Roy Mac. No cutting edge. Difficult times ahead….

[Ram-Alf]

There was a patern of play in the 1st half that gave me great heart, The one touch football that cut Brum to pieces on the 18 yard line and left Lawrence with an opportunity which he passed to their keeper.

It shows it can be done if players move forward, Unfortunately having a six shooter on your hip then blowing your foot off is no help when gifting goals away, The vast majority who've posted on the game thread have said "it's our tactics that's costing us" I agree, Unfortunately I heard this Morning WR is set to carry on with this course of action.

Being an Ex pro footballer doesn't make you right, It's what you believe is right, Being a supporter and watching for ourselves what "we think" is wrong only fuels honest confusion with it all.

WBA/Stoke next week, If you thing Birmingham were physical wait for these 2, I see troubled waters ahead on the pitch, And there's not alot of steering available.

We're not going to make lighweights into heavy weights.

[Coneheadjohn]

13 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

What doesn't work is no threat up front. #simples

That’s the unfortunate truth,just playing it in behind for Baldock to chase is a big ask.

We look better with Joz,TL and Sibley behind.

We’re just wafer thin on options.

[Ramarena]

3 hours ago, Gaspode said:

Where did I say that? I intimated that the play it out from the back, tippy tappy approach is beyond our players and puts them under too much pressure. A change of formation might put round pegs in round holes and let us play through the midfield. Can I politely suggest you watch a bit more football where you may discover there are many ways for a team to set up rather than just the two you seem to comprehend….

Don’t you know there are only two ways to play?

The way we currently play, or blasting it at Baldocks bonce……that’s it I’m afraid!

 

[Ramarena]

52 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

There was a patern of play in the 1st half that gave me great heart, The one touch football that cut Brum to pieces on the 18 yard line and left Lawrence with an opportunity which he passed to their keeper.

It shows it can be done if players move forward, Unfortunately having a six shooter on your hip then blowing your foot off is no help when gifting goals away, The vast majority who've posted on the game thread have said "it's our tactics that's costing us" I agree, Unfortunately I heard this Morning WR is set to carry on with this course of action.

Being an Ex pro footballer doesn't make you right, It's what you believe is right, Being a supporter and watching for ourselves what "we think" is wrong only fuels honest confusion with it all.

WBA/Stoke next week, If you thing Birmingham were physical wait for these 2, I see troubled waters ahead on the pitch, And there's not alot of steering available.

We're not going to make lighweights into heavy weights.

If we were in the Prem with decent options in the squad then I say he’d be right to carry on. But we’re in the Champ where teams will hammer you with anything they can find and exploit any weakness.

I said after the friendlies we’d struggle with this style of play if we stuck to it rigidly, even with large investment in playing staff you’d still probably struggle to an extent if you persisted.

We have limited resources so you need to be able to extract every last drop of ability from the squad and recognise and play to THEIR strengths………it’s adapt or die, that’s the only chance of survival we have!

 

[i-Ram]

Can’t win Rooney really.

Last season he was bemoaned for not having a system, and most matches trying to match-up with our opponents.

This season he has developed a system, agreed ill suited to a number of our players, but at least he wants to try to play football. However it seems a good few now want him to change things to match-up with our opponents.

He has 15 established players, a good number on low wages, and a large number of inexperienced youngsters. The team spirit looks good, and at times last night played the ball around nicely. 

We lost last night because of one horrendous mistake, one unfortunate bit of luck, and because most of our forward players were off their game (Sibley, Lawrence and Baldock didn’t really contribute a great deal).

Rooney should never have come to the Club, blame Morris for that. We should, a club of our stature, have a pretty decent playing staff. We haven’t, blame Morris for that. 

Now though is a time to get right behind Rooney and all the players. Nothing is going to change until Morris goes, so let’s back our team to the hilt not undermine everything they are trying to achieve.

[Chester40]

5 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Now though is a time to get right behind Rooney and all the players. Nothing is going to change until Morris goes, so let’s back our team to the hilt not undermine everything they are trying to achieve.

Agreed with 95% of that...

But 'undermine'?. 

Simply saying we can look neat and tidy but with little threat and we really need to find a way to look more likely to score, on a forum.. is hardly undermining the team? 

[Ramarena]

44 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Last season he was bemoaned for not having a system, and most matches trying to match-up with our opponents.

 

No…..playing to our players strengths will suffice!

[Turnstile]

4 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

How did we look like 'rabbits in car headlights'? When? A poor back pass and a lucky deflection into a players path?

 

All the match mainly in our own half.

[kevinhectoring]

On 10/09/2021 at 22:16, IslandExile said:

Play the full backs in defence.

If you want to play them further forward, as wing backs if you will, then play three central defenders.

This tactic of the two central midfielders covering for the full backs doesn't work. They're coming from a central area, so cannot cut out the run down the wing and the cross into the area. Jagielka and Davies are way too exposed.

I used to laugh that you never saw Roberto Carlos of Brazil ever appearing in his own half. We're not Brazil and Nathan Byrne, much as I like him, is no Roberto.

I'd like to see Byrne's heat map, showing his average position. I did see, time and time again, Birmingham attacks down their left and wondering where the flip is our Nathan? Only for the camera to pan out and, oh there he is, in their half, while they're attacking our goal.

I'm not blaming Byrne. That's the well documented tactic.

It just doesn't work.

4-4-2, 4-2-3-1, 5-3-2, 3-4-3

Take your pick of formation.

But please, no more 2-2-5-1.

The last 16 games of last season, Rooney adopted the same approach and watched it fail time after time. This season it’s a completely different system, and the signs are we don’t have the players to execute it. And that the rest of the league have worked out how to counter it. Do you expect it to change ? 

[Crewton]

22 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

How did we look like 'rabbits in car headlights'? When? A poor back pass and a lucky deflection into a players path?

 

Yeah, I thought that was nonsense too. 

[i-Ram]

19 hours ago, Chester40 said:

Agreed with 95% of that...

But 'undermine'?. 

Simply saying we can look neat and tidy but with little threat and we really need to find a way to look more likely to score, on a forum.. is hardly undermining the team? 

You are being far too sensitive Chester. I was simply grandstanding.

[Warwick Ram]

We should play 3 - 5 - 2 wiry Byrne and Buchanan as the wing backs. We then have Forsyth and Ebolese as back ups. Play Cashin with Davies and Jagielka or even Bird in a back three. Then a midfield three of Knight, Morrison and Shinne (until Bielik is back) with Baldock and Stretton up front (until Kazim is back).

This keeps us defensively secure with more attacking threat as we have two up top. Morrison and Knight would be free to push on with Shinnie covering.

Edited September 12, 2021 by Warwick Ram