Birmingham City vs Derby County Matchday Thread

[Blondest Goat]

3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Really? I didn't think they were. ?

If we'd had one of their strikers... 

Wouldn't have made any difference.  We wouldn't have got the ball to them.   

As soon as they pressed our defence we couldn't get out of our half.   Only one winner from 20 minutes in.  

Outside the top two or three there isn't a lot to choose in this division but I thought that was a pretty comfortable win for bham.   

We will have games like that so I'm not overly concerned.  I'm more worried when we draw the games where we're the better team.  Theyre the games that could keep us up.

[RoyMac5]

Just now, Blondest Goat said:

Wouldn't have made any difference.  We wouldn't have got the ball to them.   

As soon as they pressed our defence we couldn't get out of our half.   Only one winner from 20 minutes in.  

So the chances we did make - Baldock's was a classic example, wouldn't have made any difference if it had fell to Deeney?

[Blondest Goat]

3 hours ago, Crewton said:

Ha ha ha, that's good!

I don't remember them not being able to get out of their half.  

They kept us at arms length after they got the goal.  We never threatened them once. 

[Blondest Goat]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

So the chances we did make - Baldock's was a classic example, wouldn't have made any difference if it had fell to Deeney?

We'd have lost 2 1.    

[Blondest Goat]

44 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

They weren't miles better than us, we were controlling the play in the first 20 minutes admittedly without hurting them much until they rumbled our tactic of playing it around the back and we decided to gift them a free goal. 

After that they didn't really need to carve us open as we had zero attacking penetration and were happy to rely on bombing long throws into our box or harrasing us into making mistakes when we faffed around at the back with the ball.

As another poster has said if we hadn't have gifted two goals then we probably would have escaped with a nil nil but we all know about ifs.

 

But we gifted them the goals because they knew our weakness and kept us under pressure at the back.  They forced the mistakes.  Yes they were gifts but it was obvious for all to see that they were coming.    After that they kept us at arms length and barely had to do any defending as we couldn't get the ball into their half.   

They weren't miles better in the sense that they didn't play us off the park but they won every battle, looked quicker and stronger and it was a very comfortable win for them.    

For me it was easily out worst performance of the season. 

[Eddie]

3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Was that to blame for the goals or were errors. Don't you think errors will happen however we play, and not scoring or being more of a goal threat is the major problem?

I would far rather see Derby attempt to play football and fail than play Rowettball.

[vonwright]

8 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I would far rather see Derby attempt to play football and fail than play Rowettball.

That's fine but it could also get us relegated. Plus, it's not exactly either-or: it's not a matter of 100% 'boot it up to the target man' v 100% 'play it around at the back at all costs'. Surely we should be able to tweak our system when the other team starts pressing so at least we aren't so predictable?

Birmingham play fairly pragmatic football. I guess you could call it 'ugly' but their fans are a lot happier than ours today. Our pretty passing isn't bringing as much joy as we think it is!

Edited September 11, 2021 by vonwright

[Rammy03]

36 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I would far rather see Derby attempt to play football and fail than play Rowettball.

I'd rather we win and stay up

[Premier ram]

Was at the game last night , no complaints about the result , they were the sort of team we have struggled against for years, direct and physical , dont blame the lads or management , seemed to me to be one of those games where two matched sides were going to be separated by the others mistake , sadly it was us with the errors , some of the ratings on the other thread are laughable nobody was a 2 or 3 , we have some cruel fans , Morrison and Lawrence probably our best last night , would like to see more of Stretton , that boy has a great attitude

                      On to the Baggies , no pressure , as everyone expects us to get thrashed , but if we can iron out our errors we could give them a game , would like to see Rav and knighty as a midfield 2 behind Tom , Louie and Joz, who we missed last night . btw , fans were superb again last night COYR

[Ruud Aralliss]

4 hours ago, Eddie said:

First world problems....

?

[Eddie]

58 minutes ago, vonwright said:

That's fine but it could also get us relegated.

I've seen us in the third division before - and it was great fun. I've reached the stage where I don't mind what level we play at. OK, I've stopped attending matches, but that's not because we're rubbish - it's because I'm pretty disgusted with the behaviour of some fans - including ours.

[DavesaRam]

4 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Was that to blame for the goals or were errors. Don't you think errors will happen however we play, and not scoring or being more of a goal threat is the major problem?

The tactics are to blame for the goals. The aim of playing it out from the back is fine if we actually play the ball out from the back. What we are actually doing is playing around with the ball at the back, because,, as someone else has said, our midfield aren't showing for the ball, and when they get it they pass it back to the defenders, or sideways between themselves, and don't turn and move the ball forwards. Consequently we could have Messi, Ronaldo, Kane and whoever else upfront and it wouldn't make much difference because the ball wouldn't arrive there until all our forwards are heavily marked up. As with last night, all the opposition have to do is step forwards a few yards and press us, and we are under pressure. So instead of playing the ball in our own comfort, we are under pressure, and having to play defensively trying to avoid giving the ball away. And inevitably that pressure leads to mistakes, and even at Championship level the opposition only need one chance to punish us and we are done for. I know Rooney hinted at the need to change it up a bit, but I suspect that fact that we do the tippy-tappy thing every time we get the ball at the back is because that is what the players have been told they must do.

If we are going to continue with playing out from the back, then we need midfielders who will turn with the ball and play it forwards quickly, a bit like Loue Watson did when he was played in his best position in central midfield. Maybe we ought to do away with insisting on two DMs every match. The DM concept worked best when we only had one of them in the days  of gorgeous George. I know we haven't got a George Thorne right now, but one DM frees up space for someone a bit more creative wo can move the ball forwards more quickly and decisively.

Edited September 11, 2021 by DavesaRam

[Ruud Aralliss]

8 minutes ago, Eddie said:I'm pretty disgusted with the behaviour of some fans - including ours.

In what way?

[Ruud Aralliss]

Just now, Ruud Aralliss said:

In what way?

 

9 minutes ago, Eddie said:

it's because I'm pretty disgusted with the behaviour of some fans - including ours.

In what way?

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, Blondest Goat said:

I don't remember them not being able to get out of their half.  

They kept us at arms length after they got the goal.  We never threatened them once. 

I don't remember us not being able to get out of our half either. Obviously, if we'd have adopted their tactics, we would technically have spent more time in their half, but since we don't have anyone who can throw the ball 40 metres, it's probably not worth us trying to.

They may have contained us well, but they only had 4 shots on target - and 3 of those came from a combination of our errors and fortunate deflections. Their "creativity" consisted of "kick it to the corners", "throw it into the mixer" and "try to get their main threats sent off".

You say we didn't threaten after their first goal, but we in fact had a dominant spell before they scored the 2nd, with their keeper punching out Lawrence's shot, Sibley blasting the loose ball over and Buchanan putting a couple of dangerous crosses in. Not enough of course, and we didn't get the ball into the space behind their wing-backs enough, but if we'd had a referee and linos who recognised that pulling, barging and dragging down were actually fouls, we might have had more opportunities.

Birmingham were well-organised and had a plan that they stuck to, they got two serious 'rubs of the green', but "miles better"? Not in my eyes.

[Tyler Durden]

1 hour ago, Crewton said:

I don't remember us not being able to get out of our half either. Obviously, if we'd have adopted their tactics, we would technically have spent more time in their half, but since we don't have anyone who can throw the ball 40 metres, it's probably not worth us trying to.

They may have contained us well, but they only had 4 shots on target - and 3 of those came from a combination of our errors and fortunate deflections. Their "creativity" consisted of "kick it to the corners", "throw it into the mixer" and "try to get their main threats sent off".

You say we didn't threaten after their first goal, but we in fact had a dominant spell before they scored the 2nd, with their keeper punching out Lawrence's shot, Sibley blasting the loose ball over and Buchanan putting a couple of dangerous crosses in. Not enough of course, and we didn't get the ball into the space behind their wing-backs enough, but if we'd had a referee and linos who recognised that pulling, barging and dragging down were actually fouls, we might have had more opportunities.

Birmingham were well-organised and had a plan that they stuck to, they got two serious 'rubs of the green', but "miles better"? Not in my eyes.

Birmingham didn't have a plan to start with though, we were controlling the ball and tempo of the game in the first 20 minutes as they were giving us far too much space and time to work the ball from the back. 

When Bowyer got wise to that then we had no answer and as soon as they started putting us under pressure we gifted them the first goal as we weren't used to having to work the ball from the back with their players harrying us. 

Our inability to get anything from the game was nothing to do with the ref or linos let's be honest Shinnie was quite rightly booked for wrestling their player and one of their players was booked for doing exactly the same kind of thing in the second half.

The distinct difference was our players lack of discipline compared to theirs which needs to be coached out very quickly, Lawrence and Morrison the notable offenders for seeking retribution after they thought that they had been both fouled. 

[ram59]

1 hour ago, Crewton said:

I don't remember us not being able to get out of our half either. Obviously, if we'd have adopted their tactics, we would technically have spent more time in their half, but since we don't have anyone who can throw the ball 40 metres, it's probably not worth us trying to.

They may have contained us well, but they only had 4 shots on target - and 3 of those came from a combination of our errors and fortunate deflections. Their "creativity" consisted of "kick it to the corners", "throw it into the mixer" and "try to get their main threats sent off".

You say we didn't threaten after their first goal, but we in fact had a dominant spell before they scored the 2nd, with their keeper punching out Lawrence's shot, Sibley blasting the loose ball over and Buchanan putting a couple of dangerous crosses in. Not enough of course, and we didn't get the ball into the space behind their wing-backs enough, but if we'd had a referee and linos who recognised that pulling, barging and dragging down were actually fouls, we might have had more opportunities.

Birmingham were well-organised and had a plan that they stuck to, they got two serious 'rubs of the green', but "miles better"? Not in my eyes.

Well put, in addition to that, how many potential attacks of ours were broken up by niggly cynical fouls near the half way line?

Also, how many times did I hear the commentator say after a challenge on one of our players, 'that would have been a foul last season'?

[Anag Ram]

1 minute ago, ram59 said:

Well put, in addition to that, how many potential attacks of ours were broken up by niggly cynical fouls near the half way line?

Also, how many times did I hear the commentator say after a challenge on one of our players, 'that would have been a foul last season'?

The shoulder barge on Byrne was ridiculous. Fine to give someone a bump if it's in the act of taking the ball but when you're nowhere near the ball it's just a foul. 

Would have been in a dangerous position too. 

[Tyler Durden]

8 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

The shoulder barge on Byrne was ridiculous. Fine to give someone a bump if it's in the act of taking the ball but when you're nowhere near the ball it's just a foul. 

Would have been in a dangerous position too. 

Yes remember that when the ball was running out towards the corner flag. 

Think the most disappointing aspect for me was that our players didn't wise up at all to the fact that the ref was going to be lenient with stuff, as another poster said even the Sky commentators recognised that so why didn't our players.

Our lack of discipline was the biggest difference between the two teams, our captain rather than trying to set an example to the rest of his team seemed intent on getting embroiled in petty disputes and revenge fouling all game.

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Tyler Durden

[Tamworthram]

3 hours ago, Chester40 said:

If he gets us relegated having had the really undeserved escape he benefited from with an underperforming team last season..what evidence is there is any reason to give him another chance? 

My point is, presumably you could have said the same about Bowyer if he got Charlton relegated when they were in a similar position to us but he’s now doing with Birmingham.