Embargo.

[Spanish]

6 minutes ago, Coconut's Beard said:

I guess the only people who could stand to benefit from us receiving a points deduction would be this year's Championship relegation contenders, not that anything we're supposed to have done has had any discernible impact on their own fortunes.

A bit like how it was going to be Wycombe who'd have benefited had the disciplinary panel chosen to deduct points from last season's tally, even though they were playing in League One at the time of our supposed discretions.

It's mad really - punish us for some perceived wrongdoing that (realistically) didn't negatively impact anyone else, first by giving every other team in the league an advantage over us with the transfer embargo (even another team they can prove have spent £54m more than they were allowed!) and then further punishing us with a 9 point deduction.

It's not just mad, it's totally insane and there's no justification for it.

 

   in reality P&S will never be effective in the year of breach.   Boro claim to have missed out but the punishment does them little good really 

[Tyler Durden]

59 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Problem is the EFL have let a large number of "competitive advantage" dodges pass through (Leicester, Watford, Wolves, Forest I'm sure have tried similar too) without serious sanction (or none, in some cases) since the start of FFP and they're now playing catch-up at a time when it's us they can get their teeth into. The lack of opprobrium experienced by these and other miscreants is also galling, when some of those dodges were little more than fraud.

If you're alluding to Leicester going into administration in 2002 then there were no rules at that time enforcing a points deduction, which was subsequently introduced by the Football League. 

There are several articles too on the internet bringing their behaviour into question when Leicester won the Premier League, have included link to one by the Daily Mail:-

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3582034/amp/Leicester-City-s-Premier-League-success-restored-faith-football-darker-fairytale.html

[BucksRam]

49 minutes ago, Coconut's Beard said:

The problem (well, one problem) we have is that with the EFL effectively trying to bully us into accepting a points penalty by withholding our right to operate under normal trading conditions is that if we accept it there won't be any recourse to an appeal to lessen the penalty at a later date.

If we accept their 'deal', we cannot appeal.

...but that just makes you wonder how little they actually have on us, if they're so convinced of our guilt then what's stopping them just applying a punishment and letting us appeal it? They'll win the appeal, surely, without any problems, we're bang to rights...?

It's being presented as them wanting to end this as quickly as we do, presented as them being 'reasonable' by entering into negotiations but is anyone actually buying that? Of course they're not being reasonable, they're trying to get as much from us as possible, a far higher punishment than is actually warranted by our actions, without their decision being scrutinised by a third party.

It's practically extortion - if they get away with this what else will they get away with in future?

Agree - what I struggle with is all these comments saying I'd accept x points over 9-12......but for what?  Surely if we'd breached a clear rule then why all the delays?  If it were that clear the EFL would already have hit us with something.  The fact we haven't makes me think the EFL have very little over us that can legally justify a large points deduction, or any for that matter. The amount of points is moot to a degree if DCFC feel that strongly that no crime has been committed.  The EFL have been made to look complete numpties as a result of us being found not guilty, aside from, shock horror, poor communication about our accounts. Because we've made them look silly they are trying everything they can (in my opinion) to make us suffer until they feel they have retribution.  Smacks of spoilt child. 

If they do sanction us with a justifiable points deduction, that is clearly backed by evidence of a breach of the rules, then we ought to have no choice but to accept it.  Right now, as painful as it is, I can understand why there is a delay as I suspect there is no clear breach and DCFC are rightly fighting it tooth and nail. 

[ram59]

What I can't understand with the EFL, is that why aren't clubs who get promoted to the Premier after breaking FFP rules, not subject to a points deduction on return to the championship?  The likes of QPR and Bournemouth should have started their first season back in the championship on negative points.

[Gringo]

44 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Does Mel Morris actually have legal advice or indeed listens to it?

The cases of Sam Rush and Richard Keogh would suggest not. 

Yes here he is

https://www.blackstonechambers.com/barristers/nick-de-marco/ 

[hintonsboots]

Nick is recognised as one of the leading sports lawyers in the UK by all of the legal directories. Ranked as one of the top 3 Most Highly Regarded Sports Law Silks in the UK by Who’s Who Legal 2019. He was also featured on The Lawyer's Hot 100 list 2021.

Sounds very similar to Gilderoy Lockhart’s CV.

[Ted McMinn Football Genius]

14 minutes ago, ram59 said:

What I can't understand with the EFL, is that why aren't clubs who get promoted to the Premier after breaking FFP rules, not subject to a points deduction on return to the championship?  The likes of QPR and Bournemouth should have started their first season back in the championship on negative points.

Both south of Watford ??‍♂️?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

??

[Crewton]

22 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

If you're alluding to Leicester going into administration in 2002 then there were no rules at that time enforcing a points deduction, which was subsequently introduced by the Football League. 

There are several articles too on the internet bringing their behaviour into question when Leicester won the Premier League, have included link to one by the Daily Mail:-

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3582034/amp/Leicester-City-s-Premier-League-success-restored-faith-football-darker-fairytale.html

No, I was referring to the year they got promoted and tried to cover-up their FFP breach by creating an "imaginative" marketing deal that allowed their owner to inject a further £10M into the club to mitigate the overspending that helped them gain promotion and everything that followed. They accepted an EFL fine eventually, years later, after initially contesting the legality of the FFP rules and threatening to take the EFL all the way through the Courts. But now pundits and fans alike refer to them as " a model club" - it's like a bank robber who goes 'straight' but never has to pay back what he's nicked.

[Tyler Durden]

2 minutes ago, Crewton said:

 They accepted an EFL fine eventually, years later, after initially contesting the legality of the FFP rules and threatening to take the EFL all the way through the Courts. But now pundits and fans alike refer to them as " a model club" - it's like a bank robber who goes 'straight' but never has to pay back what he's nicked.

I don't think everyone thinks that hence why I posted a link to the Daily Mail article bringing into question their shady dealings in the past.

[alram]

47 minutes ago, hintonsboots said:

But then you go on to say you do know and it’s all MM’s fault. It will be easier  to apportion blame, once we have all the facts, if that ever happens, due to the number of NDA’s floating around.

You are right maybe i am wrong, i just had to get it off my chest.

does he have a number of dnas floating around or is he hiding behind it? or is it once again speculation?

this is what i mean about the lack of respect mel morris is showing for everybody. he should be held to account, at the moment he isnt held to account by the supporters while we shout at the efl. we need clarity, i am seriously worried the club is going to be kicked out the leagues. 

there will be no dna's stopping mel morris from explaining the sitatuion, but me speculating (i know hypocrite ), its' because there will be a negative reaction towards him if he tells us the truth

Edited September 9, 2021 by alram

[Tyler Durden]

1 minute ago, alram said:

You are right maybe i am wrong, i just had to get it off my chest.

does he have a number of dnas floating around or is he hiding behind it? or is it once again speculation?

this is what i mean about the lack of respect mel morris is showing for everybody. he should be held to account, at the moment he isnt held to account by the supporters while we shout at the efl. we need clarity, i am seriously worried the club is going to be kicked out the leagues. 

We don't know that's the issue and in the absence of any concrete information threads like this speculating on what's going on run rampant unfortunately.

[Crewton]

6 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I don't think everyone thinks that hence why I posted a link to the Daily Mail article bringing into question their shady dealings in the past.

I agree that a few journalists and some opposition fans have previously and do still flag up how Leicester got to where they are, but the orthodoxy is they're a model for everyone to follow. I don't think I've come across a single Leicester fan who thinks they did anything wrong.

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

First of all they need to charge us with something,

They just don’t.
 

They are saying: we don’t think your accounts comply. So either agree a penalty or we’ll charge you. That’s the poker game we’re in 
 

[Foreveram]

14 minutes ago, Crewton said:

I agree that a few journalists and some opposition fans have previously and do still flag up how Leicester got to where they are, but the orthodoxy is they're a model for everyone to follow. I don't think I've come across a single Leicester fan who thinks they did anything wrong.

I know a few builders that think they did

[Eatonram]

56 minutes ago, BucksRam said:

Agree - what I struggle with is all these comments saying I'd accept x points over 9-12......but for what?  Surely if we'd breached a clear rule then why all the delays?  If it were that clear the EFL would already have hit us with something.  The fact we haven't makes me think the EFL have very little over us that can legally justify a large points deduction, or any for that matter. The amount of points is moot to a degree if DCFC feel that strongly that no crime has been committed.  The EFL have been made to look complete numpties as a result of us being found not guilty, aside from, shock horror, poor communication about our accounts. Because we've made them look silly they are trying everything they can (in my opinion) to make us suffer until they feel they have retribution.  Smacks of spoilt child. 

If they do sanction us with a justifiable points deduction, that is clearly backed by evidence of a breach of the rules, then we ought to have no choice but to accept it.  Right now, as painful as it is, I can understand why there is a delay as I suspect there is no clear breach and DCFC are rightly fighting it tooth and nail. 

Sort of agree. I feel the longer this goes on the more likely that the EFL are struggling to justify further punishment. However, if that is the case they will continue the inaction to prolong the embargo. Perhaps there may be a legal process to set a deadline for conclusion, considering the damage to trade/business this is causing.

[Anag Ram]

8 minutes ago, Eatonram said:

Sort of agree. I feel the longer this goes on the more likely that the EFL are struggling to justify further punishment. However, if that is the case they will continue the inaction to prolong the embargo. Perhaps there may be a legal process to set a deadline for conclusion, considering the damage to trade/business this is causing.

Jarndyce and Jarndyce from Bleak House.

[I am Ram]

Why has it got to be a points deduction, being in an embargo is punishment itself. The EFL way of punishing teams, while the teams wait for more punishment, won't be sustainable for many more years, clubs will start folding on a  regular basis. Hey ho though, they've got our best interests at heart lol, the EFL is not fit for purpose. 

[DCFC27]

I do think transfer embargo’s are a much more appropriate punishment than point deductions. You’re trying to sign players by paying more than allowable… so embargo that club for a season or two. I think points deductions should be kept back for more serious breaches. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

6 minutes ago, Eatonram said:

Sort of agree. I feel the longer this goes on the more likely that the EFL are struggling to justify further punishment. However, if that is the case they will continue the inaction to prolong the embargo. Perhaps there may be a legal process to set a deadline for conclusion, considering the damage to trade/business this is causing.

The sticky point is, the actions to get out of our current embargo are technically in our hands - however, there is a danger our doing so could lead to further problems if we havent resolved where we stand on the resubmitted accounts and EFL charges (this is my speculation, not a fact) - Id guess once the current discussion/charges resulting from our resubmitted are finalised then the rest of the ducks form an ordered row and get resolved.

[IronRam 140.6]

8 hours ago, duncanjwitham said:

We're really not talking about "loopholes" are we though? Certainly not in the sense of finding some gap in the law that the authorities didn't intend to be there.  The EFL rules say we have to comply with FRS102. Our accountants (and seemingly every other accountant that's looked at it properly) think we do comply.  We just happen to do things a little bit differently because (shocker, I know! ?) companies choose to organise their accounts in a way that suits the way they want to do business.  You can't have flexibility in the rules and then have a toddler-tantrum when not everyone produces exactly the same thing.  And let's be clear - that flexibility is there by design, because those rules cover a multitude of different business-types that do different things in different ways, so you'll never get a single uniform set of rules from something like FRS102.  So we're again back at the same thing I keep saying - if the EFL want accounts produced in a very strict and controlled way, they need to write the rules for it and publish them.  You can't have the situation where the EFL are enforcing rules that aren't written down.

I see it like the downforce argument from F1 a decade or so ago. Downforce made the cars go quicker round bends, so teams started getting creative with ways to apply more. 

Eventually other teams kicked off with those pioneers that got creative to get that edge. The powers that be then had to put it down in a structured method that all had to follow.