Tactics; Intent and Execution

[brady1993]

I'm writing this because I've been thinking about it for a little while and I feel that I keep see people misdiagnosing what we are trying to do and why it's not working. (Also because I'm a bit bored whilst a bit ill). This isn't necessarily an attempt to defend what we are trying to do or whether it's the best approach to take (although I do think there is merit) but more an attempt at explaining the tactical intent and why we aren't meeting that intent or at least not consistently. It's worth noting there is an amount of variation in what we have tried to do but I'll try to cover the gist of it and where and why it's varied a little.

The Intent

The primary goal of what Rooney is trying to tactically work towards is aiming to create a chasm of space in midfield in front of the opposition defence for the 3 attacking midfielders (Lawrence particularly) to exploit, with the secondary goal of if that doesn't work having an overload out wide. We do this by working the ball out from the back and having players drift from their starting positions into space we manufacture in turn creating more space where we want it. With that in mind we can look at the player's roles.

GK, CBs - Not much to really explain here and they aren't doing anything fancy. The important bit is that we expect the ball to move around between them a lot and so need to be comfortable on the ball and able to shift possession quickly and accurately. Also the centre backs may be called upon to cover the space wide that the full backs vacate so in an ideal world are positional aware and quick.

Fullbacks - Almost used as wing backs the idea is that when we are building possession they push very high and wide. This is to achieve a couple things; provide width, give an out-ball for CBs and GK or a switch ball for a midfielder and push the opposition wide players back and out of the way contributing to space opening up where you'd typically see the fullback. There has been a minor variant on this with one of the full backs playing high but narrow acting as a pseudo-midfielder with the attacking player in front of them providing the width.

DMs - With the space vacated by the full back the DM on the side possession is moving towards can freely move into that pocket of space hopefully dragging their opposite number out of position and if they aren't tracked they will have time and space to pick a pass. The idea is goes quickly into them and the quickly on either into the 10 or to a wide player on their side. By doing this it contributes to trying to moving the opposition around, get them out of position and ideally out of those central areas which brings me on to the next group.

AMs - This whole tactical system is designed to give these players a platform to play, with the movement of the fullbacks and the DMs the AMs should find it a lot easier (if the ball has been moved quickly) to find time and space in the centre of the park where they can turn and hurt the opposing team. My belief is that there is three nominal roles the left sided player operates as a wideish playmaker, the right sided player operates as the most direct of the three looking to run at the opposition or in behind and the central player is to be somewhat in between both whilst also being the primary target for most of the build up, possession and I suspect the player wanted to be on the ultimate end of the move. You'll notice that there is a big emphasis on getting the 10 on the ball as much as possible. Typically the wider players are inverted so they are more comfortable coming narrow.

CF - Unlike a lot of tactical set ups, the striker isn't here primarily as the focus of things and more as almost a decoy. The idea is they consistently make runs beyond dragging the opposition back and have them back peddling when an AM breaks into the space in front of them. The importance once again is all about disrupting how the opposition set up in order to create space.

Ideally in the build up you'd expect us to look like this (assuming an attack on the right)

 

      

 

And if you look at in that regard I believe you can start to see how we expect to create passing triangles in order to work possession. It then shifts to something closer to this further up the pitch (again assuming an attack on the right)

 

(Diagrams aren't perfect but I hope they get the point across)

The Execution

Whilst the above is the intent we often see it breakdown well before the final third giving the impression that we aren't going anywhere and it's partly we see some players end up consistently coming very deep. What's basically happening is to an extent we aren't able to execute what we are trying to do tactically and forever recycling the initial phase of it. The problem is rife throughout the team and there are a lot of players out there who are clearly unsuited to doing what is asked causing severe breaks in the tactical cohesion. 

• GK
  • Roos is actually perfect for the role in terms of his attributes. Whilst he may have his moments; at this level his distribution is excellent and he is fast off his line if somebody breaks beyond the defence.
• CBs
  • Admittedly this feels a touch unfair to criticise and in fairness they've made about as a good a fist of it as can be expected but fundamentally we need CBs much more comfortable on the ball the Davies and Stearman if we want to build out from the back.
  • Jagielka coming in will help this mind and if we can pick up Mengi as well we will be golden.
• Fullbacks
  •  Forsyth just isn't really quick enough anymore to properly stretch the pitch and then return to position, Buchanan returning will improve this but I think we need start seriously considering bumping Williams up to second choice.
  • Byrne whilst he has made mistakes is probably ok in the role with a couple caveats; ideally we'd have someone a little faster and more capable of drilling the ball into the box (as opposed to Byrne's floaters). Ebosele would fix some of the issues but is a little rawer in possession than Byrne.
  • Also whilst Byrne is fine with the primary role, he is clearly supremely uncomfortable playing as an inverted full back as we saw against Peterborough.
• DMs
  • Bird tactically and positionally completely gets what he should be doing and whilst it might look odd is following the plan set out for him to a T.  The ball comes into and back out from him quickly and reliably. The only minor problem is because of the position he is taking up the quick forwards pass is typically on his wrong foot  and he'd be far better off if he was playing on the left half of the pitch.
  • Shinnie however is arguably one of the biggest issues in the current set up and blatantly unsuited for it. Tactical he looks unsure of his role and the number of times that one of the following happens when he gets the ball is significant; the momentum of the move is killed dead because he takes too many touches, he gives up possession or he passes in a such a way that the next player does. As much as he is liked if Rooney wants to tactically make work what he's trying to do, Shinnie has to come out of the side.
• AMs
  • The system has been built with Lawrence playing at 10 in mind and whilst he hasn't perhaps pulled up any trees he does seem to tactically understand what his role and what he should be doing at a given time. Need a bit more creatively from him and I think we will see that once other things click into place.
  • Morrison somewhat similar to Lawrence I feel was firmly in the coaching team's mind when thinking on how they want to play this season and does his role well
  • The problem position is the RAM slot. The plan very clearly was to get Aluko in here. Jozwiak and Ebosele have started here but neither are really right for both being right footed and given that Byrne behind them can't play the compensatory role. The player very clearly most suited to it is Sibley but it's just a question of whether Rooney gets over his hangups with him as he looked like a clear fit when he came on versus Peterborough.
• CF
  • This is also where there has been a bit of a problem. I really like CKR but this system needs someone energetic and spinning in behind to open up the space and keep the opposition honest and it's just not his game. It wasn't surprising to me that the game seemed to change when he got injured and Stretton came on because suddenly spaces started to appear.
  • I'm relatively convinced Baldock was being brought in with this in mind and was going to be earmarked as first choice. Personally however I think Stretton looks a better fit and I suspect is more likely to be clinical when it comes to chance creation. 

Whilst it might not look great now with perhaps a couple signings/players returning to fitness it could quickly click into place, it's just down to Rooney and Co to realise why it's not working and fix it. For example a theoretical line up along the lines of the following would likely execute the plan set out pretty well 

[Rammeister]

Can you do an executive summary please?

[Carnero]

5 minutes ago, Rammeister said:

Can you do an executive summary please?

[chewbacca]

[Andrew3000]

OK I will keep reading and respect the effort but:

, CBs - Not much to really explain here and they aren't doing anything fancy. The important bit is that we expect the ball to move around between them a lot and so need to be comfortable on the ball and able to shift possession quickly and accurately. Also the centre backs may be called upon to cover the space wide that the full backs vacate so in an ideal world are positional aware and quick.

 

So this can't be right.

[brady1993]

5 minutes ago, Rammeister said:

Can you do an executive summary please?

What we are seeing is the failure to execute the tactical plan due to personnel. Swap at least one centre back for someone comfortable in possession, swap Fozzy for Buchanan, move Bird to left DM slot and drop Shinnie entirely for a new right footed DM, play Sibley on the right and put Stretton or Baldock up front. Do all that and you'd see far more tactical cohesion and better overall performances with the plan Rooney has set out.

[brady1993]

1 minute ago, Andrew3000 said:

OK I will keep reading and respect the effort but:

, CBs - Not much to really explain here and they aren't doing anything fancy. The important bit is that we expect the ball to move around between them a lot and so need to be comfortable on the ball and able to shift possession quickly and accurately. Also the centre backs may be called upon to cover the space wide that the full backs vacate so in an ideal world are positional aware and quick.

 

So this can't be right.

I'm not sure on your point here ? To be clear I'm not talking about our current the centre backs but the ideal in the set up (I go onto to explicitly talk about why neither Davies or Stearman are right for what we are trying to do).

[Ramos]

25 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

I'm writing this because I've been thinking about it for a little while and I feel that I keep see people misdiagnosing what we are trying to do and why it's not working. (Also because I'm a bit bored whilst a bit ill). This isn't necessarily an attempt to defend what we are trying to do or whether it's the best approach to take (although I do think there is merit) but more an attempt at explaining the tactical intent and why we aren't meeting that intent or at least not consistently. It's worth noting there is an amount of variation in what we have tried to do but I'll try to cover the gist of it and where and why it's varied a little.

The Intent

The primary goal of what Rooney is trying to tactically work towards is aiming to create a chasm of space in midfield in front of the opposition defence for the 3 attacking midfielders (Lawrence particularly) to exploit, with the secondary goal of if that doesn't work having an overload out wide. We do this by working the ball out from the back and having players drift from their starting positions into space we manufacture in turn creating more space where we want it. With that in mind we can look at the player's roles.

GK, CBs - Not much to really explain here and they aren't doing anything fancy. The important bit is that we expect the ball to move around between them a lot and so need to be comfortable on the ball and able to shift possession quickly and accurately. Also the centre backs may be called upon to cover the space wide that the full backs vacate so in an ideal world are positional aware and quick.

Fullbacks - Almost used as wing backs the idea is that when we are building possession they push very high and wide. This is to achieve a couple things; provide width, give an out-ball for CBs and GK or a switch ball for a midfielder and push the opposition wide players back and out of the way contributing to space opening up where you'd typically see the fullback. There has been a minor variant on this with one of the full backs playing high but narrow acting as a pseudo-midfielder with the attacking player in front of them providing the width.

DMs - With the space vacated by the full back the DM on the side possession is moving towards can freely move into that pocket of space hopefully dragging their opposite number out of position and if they aren't tracked they will have time and space to pick a pass. The idea is goes quickly into them and the quickly on either into the 10 or to a wide player on their side. By doing this it contributes to trying to moving the opposition around, get them out of position and ideally out of those central areas which brings me on to the next group.

AMs - This whole tactical system is designed to give these players a platform to play, with the movement of the fullbacks and the DMs the AMs should find it a lot easier (if the ball has been moved quickly) to find time and space in the centre of the park where they can turn and hurt the opposing team. My belief is that there is three nominal roles the left sided player operates as a wideish playmaker, the right sided player operates as the most direct of the three looking to run at the opposition or in behind and the central player is to be somewhat in between both whilst also being the primary target for most of the build up, possession and I suspect the player wanted to be on the ultimate end of the move. You'll notice that there is a big emphasis on getting the 10 on the ball as much as possible. Typically the wider players are inverted so they are more comfortable coming narrow.

CF - Unlike a lot of tactical set ups, the striker isn't here primarily as the focus of things and more as almost a decoy. The idea is they consistently make runs beyond dragging the opposition back and have them back peddling when an AM breaks into the space in front of them. The importance once again is all about disrupting how the opposition set up in order to create space.

Ideally in the build up you'd expect us to look like this (assuming an attack on the right)

 

      

 

And if you look at in that regard I believe you can start to see how we expect to create passing triangles in order to work possession. It then shifts to something closer to this further up the pitch (again assuming an attack on the right)

 

(Diagrams aren't perfect but I hope they get the point across)

The Execution

Whilst the above is the intent we often see it breakdown well before the final third giving the impression that we aren't going anywhere and it's partly we see some players end up consistently coming very deep. What's basically happening is to an extent we aren't able to execute what we are trying to do tactically and forever recycling the initial phase of it. The problem is rife throughout the team and there are a lot of players out there who are clearly unsuited to doing what is asked causing severe breaks in the tactical cohesion. 

• GK
  • Roos is actually perfect for the role in terms of his attributes. Whilst he may have his moments; at this level his distribution is excellent and he is fast off his line if somebody breaks beyond the defence.
• CBs
  • Admittedly this feels a touch unfair to criticise and in fairness they've made about as a good a fist of it as can be expected but fundamentally we need CBs much more comfortable on the ball the Davies and Stearman if we want to build out from the back.
  • Jagielka coming in will help this mind and if we can pick up Mengi as well we will be golden.
• Fullbacks
  •  Forsyth just isn't really quick enough anymore to properly stretch the pitch and then return to position, Buchanan returning will improve this but I think we need start seriously considering bumping Williams up to second choice.
  • Byrne whilst he has made mistakes is probably ok in the role with a couple caveats; ideally we'd have someone a little faster and more capable of drilling the ball into the box (as opposed to Byrne's floaters). Ebosele would fix some of the issues but is a little rawer in possession than Byrne.
  • Also whilst Byrne is fine with the primary role, he is clearly supremely uncomfortable playing as an inverted full back as we saw against Peterborough.
• DMs
  • Bird tactically and positionally completely gets what he should be doing and whilst it might look odd is following the plan set out for him to a T.  The ball comes into and back out from him quickly and reliably. The only minor problem is because of the position he is taking up the quick forwards pass is typically on his wrong foot  and he'd be far better off if he was playing on the left half of the pitch.
  • Shinnie however is arguably one of the biggest issues in the current set up and blatantly unsuited for it. Tactical he looks unsure of his role and the number of times that one of the following happens when he gets the ball is significant; the momentum of the move is killed dead because he takes too many touches, he gives up possession or he passes in a such a way that the next player does. As much as he is liked if Rooney wants to tactically make work what he's trying to do, Shinnie has to come out of the side.
• AMs
  • The system has been built with Lawrence playing at 10 in mind and whilst he hasn't perhaps pulled up any trees he does seem to tactically understand what his role and what he should be doing at a given time. Need a bit more creatively from him and I think we will see that once other things click into place.
  • Morrison somewhat similar to Lawrence I feel was firmly in the coaching team's mind when thinking on how they want to play this season and does his role well
  • The problem position is the RAM slot. The plan very clearly was to get Aluko in here. Jozwiak and Ebosele have started here but neither are really right for both being right footed and given that Byrne behind them can't play the compensatory role. The player very clearly most suited to it is Sibley but it's just a question of whether Rooney gets over his hangups with him as he looked like a clear fit when he came on versus Peterborough.
• CF
  • This is also where there has been a bit of a problem. I really like CKR but this system needs someone energetic and spinning in behind to open up the space and keep the opposition honest and it's just not his game. It wasn't surprising to me that the game seemed to change when he got injured and Stretton came on because suddenly spaces started to appear.
  • I'm relatively convinced Baldock was being brought in with this in mind and was going to be earmarked as first choice. Personally however I think Stretton looks a better fit and I suspect is more likely to be clinical when it comes to chance creation. 

Whilst it might not look great now with perhaps a couple signings/players returning to fitness it could quickly click into place, it's just down to Rooney and Co to realise why it's not working and fix it. For example a theoretical line up along the lines of the following would likely execute the plan set out pretty well 

I feel Liam Thompson with his balance is actually very suited to the tactics we are trying to play. Sadly he probably won’t get a look in, not least till the transfer window is shut. 
 

I just think so far the main reason it isn’t working is because we just aren’t being brave enough, Lawrence and Morrison on Saturday were coming deep but not turning on the ball and shinnie and bird kept passing it back to CBS rather than trying to break the lines. I’d rather we at least tried that and lose the ball than playing 10 passes between holding midfielders and CBs and then lose the ball anyway. 

It worked better in the second half when the game was more stretched but in the first half, ebosele and Forsyth were basically just stood on each byline on the half way line and rarely got the ball watching the ball go back and forth with the back line. Honestly, no one expects Derby to do much this season, we should be drilling that into the players. They should have nothing to fear and play with freedom to just do what we can do and anything else is a bonus. 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Ramos

[Tyler Durden]

If that's the condensed version would hate to see the unabridged one

[brady1993]

1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said:

If that's the condensed version would hate to see the unabridged one

Yeah... not getting any points for brief with it. 

I did do something of heavily condensed version as a response though.

[brady1993]

4 minutes ago, Ramos said:

I feel Liam Thompson with his balance is actually very suited to the tactics we are trying to play. Sadly he probably won’t get a look in, not least till the transfer window is shut. 
 

I just think so far the main reason it isn’t working is because we just aren’t being brave enough, Lawrence and Morrison on Saturday were coming deep but not turning on the ball and shinnie and bird kept passing it back to CBS rather than trying to break the lines. I’d rather we at least tried that and lose the ball than playing 10 passes between holding midfielders and CBs and then lose the ball anyway. 

It worked better in the second half when the game was more stretched but in the first half, ebosele and Forsyth were basically just stood on each byline on the half way line and rarely got the ball watching the ball go back and forth with the back line. Honestly, no one expects Derby to do much this season, we should be drilling that into the players. They should have nothing to fear and play with freedom to just do what we can do and anything else is a bonus. 

To an extent bravery on the ball comes from the belief in what you are doing and those around you, that will come when the right personnel are in the right places. The play just breaks down at Shinnie far too often. Bird is hampered by playing on his wrong side to an extent (but is the one going forwards the most in spite of this). And without someone going in behind the play gets congested and hard to pick out a pass (hence Morrison and Lawrence coming very deep).

It worked better second half because Stretton stretched the game out providing space for the attacking midfield and because we got a better balance tactically on the right with Sibley on for Ebosele especially given Byrne's blatant discomfort at being asked to play an inverted role.

[Andrew3000]

27 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

I'm not sure on your point here ? To be clear I'm not talking about our current the centre backs but the ideal in the set up (I go onto to explicitly talk about why neither Davies or Stearman are right for what we are trying to do).

Well, my point is why would we have this tactical intent when we don't have the personnel? For the cbs You address how we might improve comfort using the ball but not pace. Only Mengi is quick and we haven't been able to get him.

It is an interesting piece and if correct makes me worry that Rooney isn't being pragmatic enough with what's available.

[brady1993]

2 minutes ago, Andrew3000 said:

Well, my point is why would we have this tactical intent when we don't have the personnel? For the cbs You address how we might improve comfort using the ball but not pace. Only Mengi is quick and we haven't been able to get him.

It is an interesting piece and if correct makes me worry that Rooney isn't being pragmatic enough with what's available.

Ok let me rephrase a little as it was bit of an off the cuff comment in the meat of the post. What I meant is in an ideal world you would have a bit of pace, supreme positioning or both in that position. To an extent the DMs position does partially alleviate the need for pace at CB but it'd still be nice to have. I think a few of the problems likely dissipate with Jagielka's introduction because he's excellent on the ball and much better positionally than Stearman so less likely to get caught out (negating the need for pace a little)

In terms of recruitment I firmly believe that the intent was to pickup Mengi along with a couple other players who are slowly drifting in and that we are essentially fudging it in terms of personnel until we reach the point that Rooney has been working towards with playing staff.

[i-Ram]

1 hour ago, brady1993 said:

I'm writing this because I've been thinking about it for a little while and I feel that I keep see people misdiagnosing what we are trying to do and why it's not working. (Also because I'm a bit bored whilst a bit ill). This isn't necessarily an attempt to defend what we are trying to do or whether it's the best approach to take (although I do think there is merit) but more an attempt at explaining the tactical intent and why we aren't meeting that intent or at least not consistently. It's worth noting there is an amount of variation in what we have tried to do but I'll try to cover the gist of it and where and why it's varied a little.

The Intent

The primary goal of what Rooney is trying to tactically work towards is aiming to create a chasm of space in midfield in front of the opposition defence for the 3 attacking midfielders (Lawrence particularly) to exploit, with the secondary goal of if that doesn't work having an overload out wide. We do this by working the ball out from the back and having players drift from their starting positions into space we manufacture in turn creating more space where we want it. With that in mind we can look at the player's roles.

GK, CBs - Not much to really explain here and they aren't doing anything fancy. The important bit is that we expect the ball to move around between them a lot and so need to be comfortable on the ball and able to shift possession quickly and accurately. Also the centre backs may be called upon to cover the space wide that the full backs vacate so in an ideal world are positional aware and quick.

Fullbacks - Almost used as wing backs the idea is that when we are building possession they push very high and wide. This is to achieve a couple things; provide width, give an out-ball for CBs and GK or a switch ball for a midfielder and push the opposition wide players back and out of the way contributing to space opening up where you'd typically see the fullback. There has been a minor variant on this with one of the full backs playing high but narrow acting as a pseudo-midfielder with the attacking player in front of them providing the width.

DMs - With the space vacated by the full back the DM on the side possession is moving towards can freely move into that pocket of space hopefully dragging their opposite number out of position and if they aren't tracked they will have time and space to pick a pass. The idea is goes quickly into them and the quickly on either into the 10 or to a wide player on their side. By doing this it contributes to trying to moving the opposition around, get them out of position and ideally out of those central areas which brings me on to the next group.

AMs - This whole tactical system is designed to give these players a platform to play, with the movement of the fullbacks and the DMs the AMs should find it a lot easier (if the ball has been moved quickly) to find time and space in the centre of the park where they can turn and hurt the opposing team. My belief is that there is three nominal roles the left sided player operates as a wideish playmaker, the right sided player operates as the most direct of the three looking to run at the opposition or in behind and the central player is to be somewhat in between both whilst also being the primary target for most of the build up, possession and I suspect the player wanted to be on the ultimate end of the move. You'll notice that there is a big emphasis on getting the 10 on the ball as much as possible. Typically the wider players are inverted so they are more comfortable coming narrow.

CF - Unlike a lot of tactical set ups, the striker isn't here primarily as the focus of things and more as almost a decoy. The idea is they consistently make runs beyond dragging the opposition back and have them back peddling when an AM breaks into the space in front of them. The importance once again is all about disrupting how the opposition set up in order to create space.

Ideally in the build up you'd expect us to look like this (assuming an attack on the right)

 

      

 

And if you look at in that regard I believe you can start to see how we expect to create passing triangles in order to work possession. It then shifts to something closer to this further up the pitch (again assuming an attack on the right)

 

(Diagrams aren't perfect but I hope they get the point across)

The Execution

Whilst the above is the intent we often see it breakdown well before the final third giving the impression that we aren't going anywhere and it's partly we see some players end up consistently coming very deep. What's basically happening is to an extent we aren't able to execute what we are trying to do tactically and forever recycling the initial phase of it. The problem is rife throughout the team and there are a lot of players out there who are clearly unsuited to doing what is asked causing severe breaks in the tactical cohesion. 

• GK
  • Roos is actually perfect for the role in terms of his attributes. Whilst he may have his moments; at this level his distribution is excellent and he is fast off his line if somebody breaks beyond the defence.
• CBs
  • Admittedly this feels a touch unfair to criticise and in fairness they've made about as a good a fist of it as can be expected but fundamentally we need CBs much more comfortable on the ball the Davies and Stearman if we want to build out from the back.
  • Jagielka coming in will help this mind and if we can pick up Mengi as well we will be golden.
• Fullbacks
  •  Forsyth just isn't really quick enough anymore to properly stretch the pitch and then return to position, Buchanan returning will improve this but I think we need start seriously considering bumping Williams up to second choice.
  • Byrne whilst he has made mistakes is probably ok in the role with a couple caveats; ideally we'd have someone a little faster and more capable of drilling the ball into the box (as opposed to Byrne's floaters). Ebosele would fix some of the issues but is a little rawer in possession than Byrne.
  • Also whilst Byrne is fine with the primary role, he is clearly supremely uncomfortable playing as an inverted full back as we saw against Peterborough.
• DMs
  • Bird tactically and positionally completely gets what he should be doing and whilst it might look odd is following the plan set out for him to a T.  The ball comes into and back out from him quickly and reliably. The only minor problem is because of the position he is taking up the quick forwards pass is typically on his wrong foot  and he'd be far better off if he was playing on the left half of the pitch.
  • Shinnie however is arguably one of the biggest issues in the current set up and blatantly unsuited for it. Tactical he looks unsure of his role and the number of times that one of the following happens when he gets the ball is significant; the momentum of the move is killed dead because he takes too many touches, he gives up possession or he passes in a such a way that the next player does. As much as he is liked if Rooney wants to tactically make work what he's trying to do, Shinnie has to come out of the side.
• AMs
  • The system has been built with Lawrence playing at 10 in mind and whilst he hasn't perhaps pulled up any trees he does seem to tactically understand what his role and what he should be doing at a given time. Need a bit more creatively from him and I think we will see that once other things click into place.
  • Morrison somewhat similar to Lawrence I feel was firmly in the coaching team's mind when thinking on how they want to play this season and does his role well
  • The problem position is the RAM slot. The plan very clearly was to get Aluko in here. Jozwiak and Ebosele have started here but neither are really right for both being right footed and given that Byrne behind them can't play the compensatory role. The player very clearly most suited to it is Sibley but it's just a question of whether Rooney gets over his hangups with him as he looked like a clear fit when he came on versus Peterborough.
• CF
  • This is also where there has been a bit of a problem. I really like CKR but this system needs someone energetic and spinning in behind to open up the space and keep the opposition honest and it's just not his game. It wasn't surprising to me that the game seemed to change when he got injured and Stretton came on because suddenly spaces started to appear.
  • I'm relatively convinced Baldock was being brought in with this in mind and was going to be earmarked as first choice. Personally however I think Stretton looks a better fit and I suspect is more likely to be clinical when it comes to chance creation. 

Whilst it might not look great now with perhaps a couple signings/players returning to fitness it could quickly click into place, it's just down to Rooney and Co to realise why it's not working and fix it. For example a theoretical line up along the lines of the following would likely execute the plan set out pretty well 

I do hope you are better soon buddy.

[brady1993]

2 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I do hope you are better soon buddy.

Oh don't worry it's nothing serious (not COVID) hence why I spent a bit too much time righting an extensive post on tactics. Should be right in a day or two.

Appreciate the thoughts though. 

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, brady1993 said:

I'm writing this because I've been thinking about it for a little while and I feel that I keep see people misdiagnosing what we are trying to do and why it's not working. (Also because I'm a bit bored whilst a bit ill). This isn't necessarily an attempt to defend what we are trying to do or whether it's the best approach to take (although I do think there is merit) but more an attempt at explaining the tactical intent and why we aren't meeting that intent or at least not consistently. It's worth noting there is an amount of variation in what we have tried to do but I'll try to cover the gist of it and where and why it's varied a little.

The Intent

The primary goal of what Rooney is trying to tactically work towards is aiming to create a chasm of space in midfield in front of the opposition defence for the 3 attacking midfielders (Lawrence particularly) to exploit, with the secondary goal of if that doesn't work having an overload out wide. We do this by working the ball out from the back and having players drift from their starting positions into space we manufacture in turn creating more space where we want it. With that in mind we can look at the player's roles.

GK, CBs - Not much to really explain here and they aren't doing anything fancy. The important bit is that we expect the ball to move around between them a lot and so need to be comfortable on the ball and able to shift possession quickly and accurately. Also the centre backs may be called upon to cover the space wide that the full backs vacate so in an ideal world are positional aware and quick.

Fullbacks - Almost used as wing backs the idea is that when we are building possession they push very high and wide. This is to achieve a couple things; provide width, give an out-ball for CBs and GK or a switch ball for a midfielder and push the opposition wide players back and out of the way contributing to space opening up where you'd typically see the fullback. There has been a minor variant on this with one of the full backs playing high but narrow acting as a pseudo-midfielder with the attacking player in front of them providing the width.

DMs - With the space vacated by the full back the DM on the side possession is moving towards can freely move into that pocket of space hopefully dragging their opposite number out of position and if they aren't tracked they will have time and space to pick a pass. The idea is goes quickly into them and the quickly on either into the 10 or to a wide player on their side. By doing this it contributes to trying to moving the opposition around, get them out of position and ideally out of those central areas which brings me on to the next group.

AMs - This whole tactical system is designed to give these players a platform to play, with the movement of the fullbacks and the DMs the AMs should find it a lot easier (if the ball has been moved quickly) to find time and space in the centre of the park where they can turn and hurt the opposing team. My belief is that there is three nominal roles the left sided player operates as a wideish playmaker, the right sided player operates as the most direct of the three looking to run at the opposition or in behind and the central player is to be somewhat in between both whilst also being the primary target for most of the build up, possession and I suspect the player wanted to be on the ultimate end of the move. You'll notice that there is a big emphasis on getting the 10 on the ball as much as possible. Typically the wider players are inverted so they are more comfortable coming narrow.

CF - Unlike a lot of tactical set ups, the striker isn't here primarily as the focus of things and more as almost a decoy. The idea is they consistently make runs beyond dragging the opposition back and have them back peddling when an AM breaks into the space in front of them. The importance once again is all about disrupting how the opposition set up in order to create space.

Ideally in the build up you'd expect us to look like this (assuming an attack on the right)

 

      

 

And if you look at in that regard I believe you can start to see how we expect to create passing triangles in order to work possession. It then shifts to something closer to this further up the pitch (again assuming an attack on the right)

 

(Diagrams aren't perfect but I hope they get the point across)

The Execution

Whilst the above is the intent we often see it breakdown well before the final third giving the impression that we aren't going anywhere and it's partly we see some players end up consistently coming very deep. What's basically happening is to an extent we aren't able to execute what we are trying to do tactically and forever recycling the initial phase of it. The problem is rife throughout the team and there are a lot of players out there who are clearly unsuited to doing what is asked causing severe breaks in the tactical cohesion. 

• GK
  • Roos is actually perfect for the role in terms of his attributes. Whilst he may have his moments; at this level his distribution is excellent and he is fast off his line if somebody breaks beyond the defence.
• CBs
  • Admittedly this feels a touch unfair to criticise and in fairness they've made about as a good a fist of it as can be expected but fundamentally we need CBs much more comfortable on the ball the Davies and Stearman if we want to build out from the back.
  • Jagielka coming in will help this mind and if we can pick up Mengi as well we will be golden.
• Fullbacks
  •  Forsyth just isn't really quick enough anymore to properly stretch the pitch and then return to position, Buchanan returning will improve this but I think we need start seriously considering bumping Williams up to second choice.
  • Byrne whilst he has made mistakes is probably ok in the role with a couple caveats; ideally we'd have someone a little faster and more capable of drilling the ball into the box (as opposed to Byrne's floaters). Ebosele would fix some of the issues but is a little rawer in possession than Byrne.
  • Also whilst Byrne is fine with the primary role, he is clearly supremely uncomfortable playing as an inverted full back as we saw against Peterborough.
• DMs
  • Bird tactically and positionally completely gets what he should be doing and whilst it might look odd is following the plan set out for him to a T.  The ball comes into and back out from him quickly and reliably. The only minor problem is because of the position he is taking up the quick forwards pass is typically on his wrong foot  and he'd be far better off if he was playing on the left half of the pitch.
  • Shinnie however is arguably one of the biggest issues in the current set up and blatantly unsuited for it. Tactical he looks unsure of his role and the number of times that one of the following happens when he gets the ball is significant; the momentum of the move is killed dead because he takes too many touches, he gives up possession or he passes in a such a way that the next player does. As much as he is liked if Rooney wants to tactically make work what he's trying to do, Shinnie has to come out of the side.
• AMs
  • The system has been built with Lawrence playing at 10 in mind and whilst he hasn't perhaps pulled up any trees he does seem to tactically understand what his role and what he should be doing at a given time. Need a bit more creatively from him and I think we will see that once other things click into place.
  • Morrison somewhat similar to Lawrence I feel was firmly in the coaching team's mind when thinking on how they want to play this season and does his role well
  • The problem position is the RAM slot. The plan very clearly was to get Aluko in here. Jozwiak and Ebosele have started here but neither are really right for both being right footed and given that Byrne behind them can't play the compensatory role. The player very clearly most suited to it is Sibley but it's just a question of whether Rooney gets over his hangups with him as he looked like a clear fit when he came on versus Peterborough.
• CF
  • This is also where there has been a bit of a problem. I really like CKR but this system needs someone energetic and spinning in behind to open up the space and keep the opposition honest and it's just not his game. It wasn't surprising to me that the game seemed to change when he got injured and Stretton came on because suddenly spaces started to appear.
  • I'm relatively convinced Baldock was being brought in with this in mind and was going to be earmarked as first choice. Personally however I think Stretton looks a better fit and I suspect is more likely to be clinical when it comes to chance creation. 

Whilst it might not look great now with perhaps a couple signings/players returning to fitness it could quickly click into place, it's just down to Rooney and Co to realise why it's not working and fix it. For example a theoretical line up along the lines of the following would likely execute the plan set out pretty well 

Isn't this just a lo-tech version of Championship Manager or some such video game? If football was meant to be played on paper God wouldn't have invented grass! ?

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

Agree that Bird and Shinnie does not work. Needs to be either or..

Be tempted to try Ravel in RHS DM role with Hutchinson in LAM place.

[Andrew3000]

22 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

Ok let me rephrase a little as it was bit of an off the cuff comment in the meat of the post. What I meant is in an ideal world you would have a bit of pace, supreme positioning or both in that position. To an extent the DMs position does partially alleviate the need for pace at CB but it'd still be nice to have. I think a few of the problems likely dissipate with Jagielka's introduction because he's excellent on the ball and much better positionally than Stearman so less likely to get caught out (negating the need for pace a little)

In terms of recruitment I firmly believe that the intent was to pickup Mengi along with a couple other players who are slowly drifting in and that we are essentially fudging it in terms of personnel until we reach the point that Rooney has been working towards with playing staff.

Fair enough Brady. It seems that you are reasonably positive that this might begin to work? If right, you've done well to discern any pattern out of the mess.

[brady1993]

8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Isn't this just a lo-tech version of Championship Manager or some such video game? If football was meant to be played on paper God wouldn't have invented grass! ?

Ah yes I forget that football in real life is about lining up in a 235 and seeing which team can kick the ball better.

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

Ah yes I forget that football in real life is about lining up in a 235 and seeing which team can kick the ball better.

4-4-2 will do it.

I mean I'm sure your ponderings kept you from being bored, but seriously you've not even got your boy scouts 'football manager' badge sown on yet. ?