Jump to content

Climate Change


1of4
 Share

Recommended Posts

Not read the whole thread so my point may have been made by others already.

Whether you think climate change is real (it is) or not, or you think there's nothing you can do about it (there is) I think you'd have to be a psychopath to not want the benefits that addressing it would bring.

What's the quote? If we're wrong about climate change and we take action then we've cleaned our seas, cleared our air, prevented flooding, reduced waste and protected wildlife, if we're right about climate change and we do nothing then we all die... something like that, I may be paraphrasing. 

I don't see why as individuals we wouldn't choose a less wasteful, less damaging existence. 

If there's some higher reason for choosing to drive a V8 Range Rover than because less than 8 cylinders is basically Communism winning then I'd love to know what it is.

Unfortunately at present successful capitalism is bad for the planet. At some point that needs to change.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
On 14/08/2021 at 13:55, JoetheRam said:

Not read the whole thread so my point may have been made by others already.

Whether you think climate change is real (it is) or not, or you think there's nothing you can do about it (there is) I think you'd have to be a psychopath to not want the benefits that addressing it would bring.The

 

What's the quote? If we're wrong about climate change and we take action then we've cleaned our seas, cleared our air, prevented flooding, reduced waste and protected wildlife, if we're right about climate change and we do nothing then we all die... something like that, I may be paraphrasing. 

I don't see why as individuals we wouldn't choose a less wasteful, less damaging existence. 

If there's some higher reason for choosing to drive a V8 Range Rover than because less than 8 cylinders is basically Communism winning then I'd love to know what it is.

Unfortunately at present successful capitalism is bad for the planet. At some point that needs to change.

 

Then we must have a lot of psychopaths running the country not only have they eased the restrictions on the amount of untreated sewage that can be dumped into our rivers. They are planning to scrap a section of the proposed trade agreement with Australia that covers environmental levels, because the Aussies won't sign it while it's part of the deal. So apparently getting a trade deal done is more important than the future of the world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

Then we must have a lot of psychopaths running the country not only have they eased the restrictions on the amount of untreated sewage that can be dumped into our rivers. They are planning to scrap a section of the proposed trade agreement with Australia that covers environmental levels, because the Aussies won't sign it while it's part of the deal. So apparently getting a trade deal done is more important than the future of the world.

Yes, our government would rather pollute our rivers than let EU drivers deliver the chemicals needed for the treatment plants. 

No reduction in environmental standards is what we were promised.

Those sunlit uplands aren't so appealing when they are swimming in poo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

Yes, our government would rather pollute our rivers than let EU drivers deliver the chemicals needed for the treatment plants. 

No reduction in environmental standards is what we were promised.

Those sunlit uplands aren't so appealing when they are swimming in poo.

Something a bit more positive though... A sign that the public are understanding the urgency of climate change.

Latest opinion polls, for the first time ever, put the Green party in double figures. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, therealhantsram said:

Something a bit more positive though... A sign that the public are understanding the urgency of climate change.

Latest opinion polls, for the first time ever, put the Green party in double figures. 

 

If the Green Party ever looked like winning an election it would be absolutely slaughtered in the national press and media. All its members would suddenly become communists, anti-semites and terrorists overnight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

If the Green Party ever looked like winning an election it would be absolutely slaughtered in the national press and media. All its members would suddenly become communists, anti-semites and terrorists overnight.

You are quite right of course. And the voting system in this country makes it remarkable they have managed to get a single MP to be honest.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

You are quite right of course. And the voting system in this country makes it remarkable they have managed to get a single MP to be honest.

 

Our only real hope is a progressive alliance of the "non-tory" parties to drive a broadly green agenda, but I'm not holding out hope

If the current lot remain electable after the latest stitch-up of the ordinary man (NI hike) then there is really zero point to voting at all

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Our only real hope is a progressive alliance of the "non-tory" parties to drive a broadly green agenda, but I'm not holding out hope

If the current lot remain electable after the latest stitch-up of the ordinary man (NI hike) then there is really zero point to voting at all

Welcome to my world... I've never voted in a generl election. 

If it was a PR system I would vote green and hope they got a large enough vote to have an influence,  but until the system changes I will never vote.  I was hoping that general apathy with the system and the falling voter turnout would lead to a change in the system, but given how spicy recent times have been that theory has fallen by the wayside 😕

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Our only real hope is a progressive alliance of the "non-tory" parties to drive a broadly green agenda, but I'm not holding out hope

If the current lot remain electable after the latest stitch-up of the ordinary man (NI hike) then there is really zero point to voting at all

You'd be amazed at how many working-class folk think the sun shines out of Bozo's arse. The Tories somehow have a knack of getting turkeys to vote for Christmas.

Edited by Grumpy Git
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

If the current lot remain electable after the latest stitch-up of the ordinary man (NI hike) then there is really zero point to voting at all

I disagree.

We know that the Greens (or whoever) will never get in power in our electoral system. But a swing to a minor party, such as the Greens, will drive policy change in the major parties as they run scared of losing seats.

If you have that mindset, then your vote is never a wasted vote. Make sure to get out there and vote every time you can!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

I disagree.

We know that the Greens (or whoever) will never get in power in our electoral system. But a swing to a minor party, such as the Greens, will drive policy change in the major parties as they run scared of losing seats.

If you have that mindset, then your vote is never a wasted vote. Make sure to get out there and vote every time you can!

Exhibit A: UKIP. 

tory’s we’re loosing enough of their vote to UKIP to make them worry, and they had to take on board their policies, eventually leading to the promise of a brexit referendum, eventually leading to brexit. 

move voted for different parties almost every time I’ve voted. I really think I’ll vote green next time in the hope that something like this can happen again, and one of the big parties will start taking it seriously. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

Exhibit A: UKIP. 

tory’s we’re loosing enough of their vote to UKIP to make them worry, and they had to take on board their policies, eventually leading to the promise of a brexit referendum, eventually leading to brexit. 

move voted for different parties almost every time I’ve voted. I really think I’ll vote green next time in the hope that something like this can happen again, and one of the big parties will start taking it seriously. 

Not sure it's a totally correct argument. It also requires a leadership that is pragmatic enough to accept that they need to respond to a groundswell politically (that brexit had started to become) but also have a realistic threat in their party that they need to contend with. In the UKIP case you had them securing a lot of second places in 2015 but the vast majority of the seats they were a distant second so not really a threat electorally in our system. Alongside this, in about 1/3rd of the seats that they came second were in labour constituencies highlighting that they dug into labour too. But it was the issues inside the conservative party such as Reckless and Carswell defecting and the possibility of other MP's jumping ship, local members getting frustrated potentially affecting campaigning etc. that tipped Cameron into action. After-all the europe issue has long been known as the ticking time bomb of the conservative party. 
 

But all of this requires a leader who is pragmatic. Cameron's issue is that he was arguably overly pragmatic and paradoxically too confident he'd win a referendum. He should have stuck to his ideological guns. In the opposite direction you had a labour leader in Corbyn who doubled down on the most problematic elements of his leadership and was unable to see the wood for the trees. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 09/09/2021 at 09:23, Stive Pesley said:

Our only real hope is a progressive alliance of the "non-tory" parties to drive a broadly green agenda, but I'm not holding out hope

If the current lot remain electable after the latest stitch-up of the ordinary man (NI hike) then there is really zero point to voting at all

The first-past-the-post system means people coalesce into two sides which are only very loosely political parties but rather broad coalitions with often quite strong internal disagreements. The reason the Tories remain in power is they've recognized the shifting grounds in the country to be economically left but culturally conservative (small c). Even though the voice of the "woke" is very loud in the media (mainstream and social) it's strongly opposed by the majority culturally conservative within the country, and makes Labour unelectable. They can't use climate change as a way to try to overcome this because the national consensus across all parties is that it's a very serious situation that needs to be addressed and the UK is at the forefront of this with a Tory government. So it isn't a mark of difference, and the extremists just turn more people against acting.

I don't personally see any point voting any more because one side are idiots and the other cynical manipulators and all that most care about on either side is having power for its own sake. But if there was ever a chance the Greens might rise to become more prominent, I'd have to reconsider as I strongly they're the most dangerous grouping regarding the future survival of Humanity as a species. Their attempts at mass population control (and massive reduction) and ending economic growth are recipes for doing less good in the future and also likely Human extinction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.