The men who sell football

[i-Ram]

Good programme. Well done the journalists exposing Samuelson and his cronies in action. The journos must have been pissing themselves at that restaurant table when Samuelson is telling them to be wary, and to take precautions, when talking in a public space.

As for Mel Morris. Nothing too much to beat him with a stick about, although it’s airing, and his suggestions how to game P&S rules, must be a bit embarrassing coming at a time when he is trying to make it up with the EFL.  You don’t really need to hear about another loophole being discussed when you are trying to negotiate your way out of the last loophole ?‍♂️

My concern is the impression given by the programme which portrayed Morris as being someone prepared to quickly get into the nitty gritty of sale negotiations with third party reps of an investor he could have known hardly anything about.  Similar accusations have been made regarding his subsequent attempts to sell to Mansour and Alonso. If he is not careful he will start looking like someone desperate enough to get rid of the club as long as the buyers just come up with the cash. Not a good look, and not how he has often presented his sale position to the supporters.

[RamsFan10]

I thought it was a brilliant bit of reporting into how illegal money not only infiltrates football but how it and its owners infiltrate society more generally. 

As for Derby. I imagine Mel is embarrassed and will take more care in the future. He hasn't done anything illegal, he just looks a bit foolish. Nothing major in the grand scheme of Derby County dramas, but a bit worrying that the man in charge of our club picks allies like Samuelson. 

[Ambitious]

Mel comes out of it, albeit not squeaky clean, at least with not enough dirt on him to pile in on him (and consequently us) going forward. At least not based on this documentary. At least not for any outsiders. 

However, as a Derby fan, we know Mel is a smart man. You can't tell me that he didn't know what he was getting into when he engaged with Samuelson. He had this fake Chinese takeover, although how much he knew of Mr.X's proposed criminality I'm not sure and then followed it up with the BZI take over - again involving Samuelson. I'm led to believe he didn't have anything to do with the Erik Alonso takeover, but there were many similarities to things mentioned in the documentary and that proposed charade. I wouldn't at all be surprised if he potentially had a hand in that one too.  

Mel Morris is doing almost everything I expected we would be protected from by having a local investor. I thought at the very least we would be in safe hands during his tenure and he would only sell to someone he trusted. I don't buy that anymore. I can't buy that anymore, because Samuelson was a known entity and yet he's given him two, potentially three, chances to sell our club to his clients. I mean, a middle-eastern news outlet knew he was dodgy as duck and decided to set this whole thing up. For me, Mel can't claim not to know what he was about and what getting into business with him meant. I think that's the thing that saddens me the most. 

I know most of us on here knew Samuelson was a bit of a deviant, but not to such levels. He still claims to be above the law despite openly discussing fake passports and hiding criminality from the EFL to get them in charge to clean money. It's absolutely outrageous. It's obvious that people in the game, however, did. Ultimately, the selling owner doesn't care as long as he gets his money and it's the fans that pay. I think that's where I am with Mel at the moment. The future of this club is in the hand's of a desperate man willing to accept the advances of anyone that will give him and escape route. We are simply voiceless in this transaction and as a fan base really can only hope that the EFL won't allow anyone too crooked into our club. 

On another note, I thought the comments about not wanting to see the club on a steady decline in the documentary was ironic considering the situation we find ourselves in. He bought the club in a good position. I know that comment was a couple of seasons ago now, but even if would have to admit he's selling the club in a far worst state than when he bought in. 

[MackworthRamIsGod]

Assuming the EFL arent already aware of the content of the reporting piece, I would imagine this will further dent our relationship with them, whilst Mel is in charge.

Here we are trying to persuade them to let us sign more players, not a chance now.

Just 1 normal day, it's all we ask.

[JfR]

Don't know about anyone else, but I'd have still taken the fictitious Mr X as owner over Erik Alonso

[RadioactiveWaste]

43 minutes ago, JfR said:

Don't know about anyone else, but I'd have still taken the fictitious Mr X as owner over Erik Alonso

But our Erik was gonna buy us £20 million pound players!

and he's a world champion boxer, ok, well he isn't but was once hanging around someone who was, in his house, well not his actual house....

[California Ram.]

I actually thought Mel came out of it quite well considering the company he was keeping. 
Felt a bit like the Allardyce documentary in that you had wide boys talking themselves up in largely unsubstantiated claims of dubious behaviour. 
The last bit of the programme (Cyprus passports) was an old piece of Al Jazeera investigation that felt tacked on to make the one hour duration - however, good cameo appearance by Tony Adams’ sister as the wife of the English fixer in Cyprus. 

[i-Ram]

8 hours ago, cosmic said:

The whole documentary is about how this Samuelson bloke can hide the identities of dodgy/criminal investors when buying a football club and help launder money. Derby just happen to be one of the options he suggested because we were/are for sale at the time. 

Interestingly, Mel Morris hired Samuelson to get Derby some new investors towards back in the Lampard days. Documentary shows this fake investor (undercover agent) meeting Morris at Pride Park the day Lampard becomes Chelsea manager. Samuelson was also involved in the “fake” Sheikh bid - which shows you how long Samuelson and Morris were working together.

Interesting isn’t it, the timeline on the Lampard announcement. Playing on the Radio as the representatives of Mr X are driven to the club for their first meeting with Morris.

Someone wrote on here a week or two back, can’t remember who but someone on my credible list - not you Big Trav ? - that he was under the impression another manager was destined for the hot seat, but there was a sudden unexpected shift to the unproven Lampard. I wonder if Mel thought that Lampard’s involvement and ‘vision’ might make the Club and the investment that tiny bit more attractive to Mr X?

Edited August 10, 2021 by i-Ram

[Tombo]

I don't think Mel and DCFC come out of it too bad.

It is concerning that while Mel says that he wants to sell us to an appropriate custodian, we could have ended up with absolutely bloody any old clown with Samuelson brokering the deal.

I'm more concerned what this has raised about just how dirty the money in the game is. I suppose that answers the question "who in their right mind would buy a football club when football clubs famously never make any money?".

With that in mind, and without doing too much hand-wringing, are there any legitimate buyers for the club who don't have an aspect of criminality? How far does this go in the game? What owners of any football club don't have a grubby element buried deep in their structure?

Mel has not done good things for this club, but at the very least I believe he is 100% legitimate with his funds. I despair for the takeover. We need one badly after the shocking way we've been run but I'm now quite concerned about jumping out of this frying pan and landing in the fire.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Tombo
Typo

[Mihangel]

13 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I know he's not popular, but Keiran M's comment was "what Morris was proposing doesn't break the letter of the law (in terms of EFL regs), but it is clearly not in the spirit"

That's a great example of what a self important tit Maguire is. The first part of his comment is a fact based statement, the second is 'clearly' just opinion, for an accountant turned teacher, maybe he should stick to facts? At one point ever has an accountant made decisions based on the 'spirit' of the law? Twonk.

Edited August 10, 2021 by ShoreRam

[AndyinLiverpool]

3 minutes ago, ShoreRam said:

That's a great example of what a self important tit Maguire is. The first part of his comment is a fact based statement, the second is 'clearly' just opinion, for an accountant turned teacher, maybe he should stick to facts? At one point ever has an accountant made decisions based on the 'spirit' of the law? Twonk.

Having an opinion doesn't make someone self-important

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

8 hours ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

Just 1 normal day, it's all we ask.

Time for me to crack out the only meme I've ever created myself.

[simmoram1995]

9 hours ago, RamsFan10 said:

I thought it was a brilliant bit of reporting into how illegal money not only infiltrates football but how it and its owners infiltrate society more generally. 

As for Derby. I imagine Mel is embarrassed and will take more care in the future. He hasn't done anything illegal, he just looks a bit foolish. Nothing major in the grand scheme of Derby County dramas, but a bit worrying that the man in charge of our club picks allies like Samuelson. 

I thought it was very enlightening actually that Samuelson was a crook and a king bullshitter but the most alarming thing was how bent that ex copper was !! It’s shocking 

[JG400]

Don't think it ever looks good when you say 'This agreement should not  be documented'  that just sounds dodgy

[Mihangel]

4 minutes ago, JG400 said:

Don't think it ever looks good when you say 'This agreement should not  be documented'  that just sounds dodgy

Agreed - It may not be particularly sinister but it never sounds quite right!

[RAMesses III]

44 minutes to 49 minutes when Mr X goes to buy Derby County. 

[RAMesses III]

4 hours ago, i-Ram said:

Interesting isn’t it, the timeline on the Lampard announcement. Playing on the Radio as the representatives of Mr X are driven to the club for their first meeting with Morris.

Someone wrote on here a week or two back, can’t remember who but someone on my credible list - not you Big Trav ? - that he was under the impression another manager was destined for the hot seat, but there was a sudden unexpected shift to the unproven Lampard. I wonder if Mel thought that Lampard’s involvement and ‘vision’ might make the Club and the investment that tiny bit more attractive to Mr X?

Mr X didnt get involved until the summer Lampard was leaving so doubt Mr X was the reason. The bringing in of Lampard and Wayne were both for publicity for selling the club whilst I think Cocu was brought in to sustain the club until someone bought the club.

Mr X might be who Mel spoke about during the Supporters Charter being the one who he thought were buying the club a couple of years ago but didn't go through and have been scrambling ever since.

[i-Ram]

1 minute ago, RAMesses III said:

Mr X didnt get involved until the summer Lampard was leaving so doubt Mr X was the reason. The bringing in of Lampard and Wayne were both for publicity for selling the club whilst I think Cocu was brought in to sustain the club until someone bought the club.

Mr X might be who Mel spoke about during the Supporters Charter being the one who he thought were buying the club a couple of years ago but didn't go through and have been scrambling ever since.

Hi Buddy. Dont think you could have watched the programme. Samuelson and the reps of Mr X were shown in the car driving to, and meeting, Mel Morris at Pride Park. The announcement came over the radio as they were driving to that meeting. I am oviously not sure of the timelines of the Mr X negotiations, in particular how long they might have gone on for, but unless the journos were fabricating the story I think it is clear that this story starts a little before Lampard was contracted.

[RAMesses III]

2 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Hi Buddy. Dont think you could have watched the programme. Samuelson and the reps of Mr X were shown in the car driving to, and meeting, Mel Morris at Pride Park. The announcement came over the radio as they were driving to that meeting. I am oviously not sure of the timelines of the Mr X negotiations, in particular how long they might have gone on for, but unless the journos were fabricating the story I think it is clear that this story starts a little before Lampard was contracted.

Really sorry i-Ram but watch the section again, 44 minutes into the youtube video linked above. explicitly says on the radio that lampard is back at chelsea after 5 years as their new manager.

[seths-cap]

Watching this made me feel like us going broke and the fans reforming the club (People's Republic of Derbyshire F.C, PROD for short) and having complete ownership wouldn’t be so bad. Listening to all this and how corrupt and unethical a lot of the things that happen in the background at football clubs work just made me feel dirty. Filthy f*****g businessmen playing their games.

Has football always been like this? Probably. ?