It's not 5 it's 4! Choose again.

[jimbo jones]

So, who’s being sold so we can fit all the trialist’s in?

[Rammy03]

5 minutes ago, jimbo jones said:

So, who’s being sold so we can fit all the trialist’s in?

I imagine some of the academy players will have to go. Those with any value will surely be staying. 

[brady1993]

9 minutes ago, jimbo jones said:

So, who’s being sold so we can fit all the trialist’s in?

With the squad as it is I probably wouldn't be looking to sell anyone unless we are in dire need of cash. However assuming it counts to freeing up space in the squad I'd be considering sending out a few on loan. Namely loaning out one of Ebosole/McDonald, Brown and Hutchinson would give us 7 spaces in the squad which is likely enough to work with for now.

[DCFC1388]

11 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

With the squad as it is I probably wouldn't be looking to sell anyone unless we are in dire need of cash. However assuming it counts to freeing up space in the squad I'd be considering sending out a few on loan. Namely loaning out one of Ebosole/McDonald, Brown and Hutchinson would give us 7 spaces in the squad which is likely enough to work with for now.

As mentioned many times before, loaning out players does not free up a space to bring another player in

[Black ('n' White) Sheep]

What I think we need most:

2 x CB: would only have 1 of Jags or Mengi... there's not much height in there otherwise! Mengi and A. Nother for me (Tom Lees still hasn't got a club).
1 x 'Bielik-esque' DM: Not got any on trial... however Tudor Baluta could be available on loan from Brighton?
1 x CF: Liam Delap would be a great option.

 

 

Which probably means we'll end up with 3 wingers and Tom Carroll...

[brady1993]

Just now, DCFC1388 said:

As mentioned many times before, loaning out players does not free up a space to bring another player in

Apologies completely missed that somehow. 

My guess in that case would be one of two things is happening;

1) We know that the embargo is likely to be lifted before the window closes but we don't know when and how much time we will have to play around when it does so we are mostly focussing on free agents because they actually start training with us.

2) Behind the scenes we are having a quiet fire sale most likely around the academy players who are listed in the squad but haven't quite broken through. 

I lean more towards it being one because I think you would have seen activity already if it was 2 and we probably wouldn't have offered Ebosole a contract.

 

[RoyMac5]

Just now, brady1993 said:

2) Behind the scenes we are having a quiet fire sale most likely around the academy players who are listed in the squad but haven't quite broken through. 

 

[brady1993]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

 

Don't think Nixon is entirely reliable but you'd think things wouldn't have been so quiet if we were actively trying to move on players.

[RamLad1884]

7 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

From the DET link:

GOALKEEPERS

Kelle Roos, David Marshall

DEFENDERS

Nathan Byrne, Craig Forsyth, Lee Buchanan, Kornell McDonald, Festy Ebosele

MIDFIELDERS

Graeme Shinnie, Jason Knight, Krystian Bielik, Max Bird, Louie Watson, Issac Hutchinson, Louie Sibley, Jordan Brown

FORWARDS:

Colin Kazim-Richards, Tom Lawerence, Kamil Jozwiak, Jack Stretton

Think the suggestion on Radio Derby was that Bielik doesn't count to the squad numbers given his return isn't expected until the January transfer window. 

 

Would imagine either one or two of Watson/Hutchinson/Brown will go out on loan. Make that potentially 7 spots to play for:

Defence: Davies, Wisdom, Mengi/Jagielka/Stearman. Suspect this is heavily depending as to whether Wisdom signs on. 

Midfielders: Carroll and Morrison 

Forwards: aluko and/or Baldock

 

 

[RoyMac5]

Just now, brady1993 said:

Don't think Nixon is entirely reliable but you'd think things wouldn't have been so quiet if we were actively trying to move on players.

I imagine the second bit '...that would be of interest' is the point. Everyone and their dog knows we have little money and not enough players, so if there's interest it'll be incoming offers not us touting them around, imo.

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, RamLad1884 said:

Would imagine either one or two of Watson/Hutchinson/Brown will go out on loan.

 

13 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

As mentioned many times before, loaning out players does not free up a space to bring another player in

#COYR

Edited July 21, 2021 by RoyMac5

[Ravabeerbelly]

15 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

As mentioned many times before, loaning out players does not free up a space to bring another player in

????? FFS I feel like Bill Murray!!!!

 

[EnigmaRam]

15 minutes ago, RamLad1884 said:

Think the suggestion on Radio Derby was that Bielik doesn't count to the squad numbers given his return isn't expected until the January transfer window. 

 

Would imagine either one or two of Watson/Hutchinson/Brown will go out on loan. Make that potentially 7 spots to play for:

Defence: Davies, Wisdom, Mengi/Jagielka/Stearman. Suspect this is heavily depending as to whether Wisdom signs on. 

Midfielders: Carroll and Morrison 

Forwards: aluko and/or Baldock

 

 

Read up a bit 

[Ravabeerbelly]

People need to stop looking at the least valuable, least experienced players in the squad and assuming they will go out on loan or be sold. 
 

Firstly as has been said a million times today a loan does not assist the situation in any form at all.

Secondly, the players who will be moved on if they want to or need to make space will be the players who generate interest from other clubs. With all due respect Brown, Watson and Hutchinson will generate no interest from any one at this moment in time as they are, as you will have gathered by the amount of people who think they are expendable, the least experienced players!

For any player to leave they will need a club to display an interest in taking them and it will need to meet Derby’s requirements for it to be a goer!

For the millionth time, that is more likely to be a Sibley, Bird, Knight, Buchanan than a Hutchinson, Watson or Brown!!

Do some simple economics……even if a club came in and took any of them for a nominal fee…let’s say £80k….we would then have a space to fill in the squad which it seems from opinion on here people would prefer to be an experienced Championship defender or striker…ok so now we are looking at replacing the £1k a week wages for a kid with £8-11k a week for an experienced player….remember why we are in this situation to begin with..something to do with money / accounting / takeovers ??

So why would we want to swap a liability of £50-60k a year wages for a promising 20 year old and swap it for £400-500k a year for a 30+ looking for a one year pay day?

Now consider that it’s possible the coaching staff look at Watson and consider he’s going to be as good or better than Bird or that Hutchinson may offer the same as Sibley who is most likely a squad player under Rooney. Sibley for example may well command a fee of £3-5 million which will make a nice dent in any outstanding HMRC bill….he will also be earning considerably more than £1k a week so his wages may be a direct offset to any incoming player and he maybe won’t directly weaken or impact the starting 11….

So what makes sense to you?

Edited July 21, 2021 by Ravabeerbelly

[Carnero]

10 minutes ago, Ravabeerbelly said:

People need to stop looking at the least valuable, least experienced players in the squad and assuming they will go out on loan or be sold. 
 

Firstly as has been said a million times today a loan does not assist the situation in any form at all.

Secondly, the players who will be moved on if they want to or need to make space will be the players who generate interest from other clubs. With all due respect Brown, Watson and Hutchinson will generate no interest from any one at this moment in time as they are, as you will have gathered by the amount of people who think they are expendable, the least experienced players!

For any player to leave they will need a club to display an interest in taking them and it will need to meet Derby’s requirements for it to be a goer!

For the millionth time, that is more likely to be a Sibley, Bird, Knight, Buchanan than a Hutchinson, Watson or Brown!!

Do some simple economics……even if a club came in and took any of them for a nominal fee…let’s say £80k….we would then have a space to fill in the squad which it seems from opinion on here people would prefer to be an experienced Championship defender or striker…ok so now we are looking at replacing the £1k a week wages for a kid with £8-11k a week for an experienced player….remember why we are in this situation to begin with..something to do with money / accounting / takeovers ??

So why would we want to swap a liability of £50-60k a year wages for a promising 20 year old and swap it for £400-500k a year for a 30+ looking for a one year pay day?

Now consider that it’s possible the coaching staff look at Watson and consider he’s going to be as good or better than Bird or that Hutchinson may offer the same as Sibley who is most likely a squad player under Rooney. Sibley for example may well command a fee of £3-5 million which will make a nice dent in any outstanding HMRC bill….he will also be earning considerably more than £1k a week so his wages may be a direct offset to any incoming player and he maybe won’t directly weaken or impact the starting 11….

So what makes sense to you?

But what if we loan some players out won't that help?

 

 

 

?

Edited July 21, 2021 by Carnero

[Leeds Ram]

4 hours ago, brady1993 said:

Ok let me reframe my argument. I agree that we need strikers and that CKR and Stretton is too light however I don't think in terms of the overall effect it has that adding Baldock to that makes a material difference. We'd still be left in a position were we arguably lack quality upfront and it will take away from a signing that might be more important in another area. For example if we go for something along the lines of 2x CBs, Aluko, Baldock then we are running a major risk at the CB spot if one of them gets injured as we have close to zero cover aside from really untested academy players or putting someone like Forsyth there. Especially as none of the centre back options we are looking at look reliably solid and capable of definately playing a full season. Baldock isn't good enough to mitigate the risk we'd be taking elsewhere in my view. 

Okay, I think that's fair enough. My only potential disagreement would be last season I think we had the second best defence in the bottom half of the table. The big 'if' factor to that is how important Clarke was to that record I think. If he was a substantial reason for it then we're in big trouble.

Going forward was where we were desperately bad, not only did we not create much but we weren't particularly potent when we did. In that sense I'd suggest the urgency is more towards fixing a broken front line and midfield that produced nothing than a backline that did a not spectacular but not shambolic job either. I can't contest your argument about Baldock's numbers though, it feels like there are no good options here. 

[brady1993]

5 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

Okay, I think that's fair enough. My only potential disagreement would be last season I think we had the second best defence in the bottom half of the table. The big 'if' factor to that is how important Clarke was to that record I think. If he was a substantial reason for it then we're in big trouble.

Going forward was where we were desperately bad, not only did we not create much but we weren't particularly potent when we did. In that sense I'd suggest the urgency is more towards fixing a broken front line and midfield that produced nothing than a backline that did a not spectacular but not shambolic job either. I can't contest your argument about Baldock's numbers though, it feels like there are no good options here. 

Whilst your points about last year are true its worth keeping in mind not a single player who started at centre back last year other than Forsyth is currently a part of the squad and as you allude to Clarke was a massive part of that. 

You are right about going forwards but honestly the issues in forward areas ran a lot deeper than personal. I won't argue that we need to bolster and bring in a couple fresh faces but a lot of the problems going forwards needs to be actually fixed on the training ground or last year will largely repeat itself.

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

You are right about going forwards but honestly the issues in forward areas ran a lot deeper than personal. I won't argue that we need to bolster and bring in a couple fresh faces but a lot of the problems going forwards needs to be actually fixed on the training ground or last year will largely repeat itself.

How do you see that resolving with a base of Shinnie and Bird?

[Ram1988]

This is a tough one as we are lacking in many areas so hopefully it will be at least 5 and not the 4 which has been suggested. At the moment if I had to pick 4 based on the trailists in training with us it would be Davies, Jags, Morrison and Aulko though.

[Ravabeerbelly]

For me Aluko is a waste of a signing if it’s limited to 4. He looks to me as someone who will only operate as a right sided winger and he’ll only be behind Joz in the pecking order. 

If it’s 4 from 8 it can’t afford to be someone who’s not an automatic starter…..for me if Joz is injured we’d have Sibley in that role.

Curtis is nailed on as is Morrison so I’d expect it to be those two plus Baldock as a back up striker who can also play wide and Jagielka.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Ravabeerbelly