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It's not 5 it's 4! Choose again.


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54 minutes ago, rynny said:

The 4 signings are to cover the first few games of the season, this isn't all we are going to sign the whole window.

On that basis I would bring in Jagielka and Davies for CB (Cashin as back up) Morrison to add some creativity, then either Aluko or Baldock whoever performs the best in training and the friendlies.

@Carnero and @sage I would do anything drastic in releasing any youth players, just yet. If we sort out the hmrc and submit the accounts before the 18th August we will still have another couple of weeks to bring players in. 

I wouldn't make drastic cuts, but we may have to let one go on a free.

I'm not convinced releasing our accounts will be a panacea to our embargo woes. 

If it were, I think we would have released them by now.

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14 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

Wisdom is probably the better overall player but I agree it's likely not a colossal margin. What I do think though is he adds more of what we need in terms of what he's good at it especially considering the other players being brought in. He can bring out the ball, is decent in possession, gives broader cover across the back and adds some pace to a backline that could be sorely lacking in it. He'd likely compliment someone like Davies or Jagielka better than Stearman would. 

Yes maybe. But I'd hope to play neither of them. 😄

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I wonder if something is brewing this week in terms of additional trialists or some of those not being around.

Since they went back to training there have been images every day of training.

Or are they off the first couple of days this week after the intense work last week?

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2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Yes maybe. But I'd hope to play neither of them. 😄

I mean there is that.

I guess the realistic hope is that we can still get Mengi who really kicks on next season and Jagielka still has enough legs for a season in the championship. Then have Wisdom and Davies to cover.

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Stearman's last performance at this level was being bombed off at half-time as Huddersfield were 5-0 down and having watched the highlights, I can honestly say I've never seen anything like it. He's all over the place. It could well be one of the worst individual performances ever at this level, essentially having a fault in all five goals. I really hope he doesn't make the cut over Jagielka or Wisdom. 

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Aluko and Baldock are musts as we are perilously short of attacking options. If CKR gets injured without Baldock our only other striker on the books is an untested Stretton whose never scored a league goal. That's simply not a viable option for us to be in if we want a chance to stay up. 

If we're choosing defenders I'd go for Wisdom but unsure as to the other choice. Stearman was a part of the worst defence in the division last season which makes me question if he's really good enough for us. Jagielka is a player who looks good but has played a handful of games in the past 3 seasons, if we're needing bodies are confident a 38 year old whose barely played in 3 seasons is up for a season of championship football? Davies as much as I love his commitment questions about his fitness and pace (he was slow under Rowett) must be considered.

Wisdom isn't the greatest going but he does offer some pace and physicality plus versatility which could be important going forward. I'd probably take either Davies or Jagielka and Menghi can come in January as a backup if we need it. I'd not touch Morrison with a bargepole and one half decent performance doesn't change my mind on that score.  

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3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

From the DET link:

GOALKEEPERS

Kelle Roos, David Marshall

DEFENDERS

Nathan Byrne, Craig Forsyth, Lee Buchanan, Kornell McDonald, Festy Ebosele

MIDFIELDERS

Graeme Shinnie, Jason Knight, Krystian Bielik, Max Bird, Louie Watson, Issac Hutchinson, Louie Sibley, Jordan Brown

FORWARDS:

Colin Kazim-Richards, Tom Lawerence, Kamil Jozwiak, Jack Stretton

4 really isn't going to be enough, is it. 

We need to move some people on. Evident from this that we have an abundance of midfielders so, as sad as it is, some of those youngsters need to make way if we are to build a competitive team. Mentioned in another thread that Forsyth too could make way as there's another young left back behind Buchanan, and Buchanan appears (and should be imo) first choice. 

My 4 would actually be Wisdom, Davies, Jagielka, Morrison. 

Morrison, Sibley, Knight and Ebosele can all play in forward positions, but that would leave CKR and Stretton as the only natural centre-forwards. Think we'd need at least 1 more centre-forward (Baldock or otherwise). 

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I'd probably prioritise Mengi of all the CBs. It's a big risk to assume Davies will get through the season, Jagielka is 39 and Stearman doesn't fill me with much confidence. Wisdom would be second on my list but I'd prefer Mengi. I think we are going to need to take a few gambles this year on players who might turn out to be really good rather than players who will know will be fairly solid 6/10 types. (Morrison obviously falls into this category too.) Wisdom isn't great and isn't going to get any better. We need to be better than we were last season. Are Morrison and Menghi the answer? Probably not. But we know Wisdom isn't. 

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17 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

Stearman's last performance at this level was being bombed off at half-time as Huddersfield were 5-0 down and having watched the highlights, I can honestly say I've never seen anything like it. He's all over the place. It could well be one of the worst individual performances ever at this level, essentially having a fault in all five goals. I really hope he doesn't make the cut over Jagielka or Wisdom. 

With Forsyth and the goalies that could a few 9-0 incoming then.

Stearman always looked a reasonable standard of centre half - till he had 5 months playing with the wild eyed one from The Joiners. Perhaps he's the common denominator

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1 minute ago, vonwright said:

I'd probably prioritise Mengi of all the CBs. It's a big risk to assume Davies will get through the season, Jagielka is 39 and Stearman doesn't fill me with much confidence. Wisdom would be second on my list but I'd prefer Mengi. I think we are going to need to take a few gambles this year on players who might turn out to be really good rather than players who will know will be fairly solid 6/10 types. (Morrison obviously falls into this category too.) Wisdom isn't great and isn't going to get any better. We need to be better than we were last season. Are Morrison and Menghi the answer? Probably not. But we know Wisdom isn't. 

Wisdom isn't a great centre half but similarly he wasn't the reason we struggled last year. 

Indeed towards the end of the season I thought he played pretty well. 

He's not great in the air though and so would need to be alongside Davies or Jagielka, not Mengi. 

It's all about finding a partnership that gels. Wisdom and Clarke are both capable individually but never quite seemed in tune with each other. 

This is probably all rather pointless because I suspect if Wisdom was going to be a Derby player he'd have signed by now. 

Jag and Meng the merciless for me. 

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8 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

Aluko and Baldock are musts as we are perilously short of attacking options. If CKR gets injured without Baldock our only other striker on the books is an untested Stretton whose never scored a league goal. That's simply not a viable option for us to be in if we want a chance to stay up. 

If we're choosing defenders I'd go for Wisdom but unsure as to the other choice. Stearman was a part of the worst defence in the division last season which makes me question if he's really good enough for us. Jagielka is a player who looks good but has played a handful of games in the past 3 seasons, if we're needing bodies are confident a 38 year old whose barely played in 3 seasons is up for a season of championship football? Davies as much as I love his commitment questions about his fitness and pace (he was slow under Rowett) must be considered.

Wisdom isn't the greatest going but he does offer some pace and physicality plus versatility which could be important going forward. I'd probably take either Davies or Jagielka and Menghi can come in January as a backup if we need it. I'd not touch Morrison with a bargepole and one half decent performance doesn't change my mind on that score.  

Aluko I agree with but I'm not convinced Baldock is a much better option than Stretton. Baldock has only broken double figures at this level twice in his career and I'd honestly bet if both him and Stretton were to play a full season, Stretton would come out ahead.

I broadly agree about your comments on defenders but one thing that's worth noting I think about Jagielka is that although he hasn't been playing much, it has been in the premiership which might suggest that he does still have something about him to even be included in premier league squads. It's hard to say with him but if he still has some legs in him and we adequately support him (i.e. pair him with someone with pace) it might be worth a shot.

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Just now, brady1993 said:

Aluko I agree with but I'm not convinced Baldock is a much better option than Stretton. Baldock has only broken double figures at this level twice in his career and I'd honestly bet if both him and Stretton were to play a full season, Stretton would come out ahead.

I broadly agree about your comments on defenders but one thing that's worth noting I think about Jagielka is that although he hasn't been playing much, it has been in the premiership which might suggest that he does still have something about him to even be included in premier league squads. It's hard to say with him but if he still has some legs in him and we adequately support him (i.e. pair him with someone with pace) it might be worth a shot.

He's still scored a lot more goals than Stretton at this level.  Stretton hasn't scored any league goals and has only had a couple of very brief cameos for us which is not really anything to base a player on. I honestly don't think we can afford to be taking gambles on untried and untested youth players that we hope might come good especially upfront which is our big problem atm. Baldock isn't perfect I'll grant you but he has experience and in the right system can score a few. 

True about Jagielka. I'm less worried about the quality of him than simply how many games we can squeeze out of him. 

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13 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Stearman always looked a reasonable standard of centre half - till he had 5 months playing with the wild eyed one from The Joiners. Perhaps he's the common denominator

Can't say I agree with that, I think he's always looked like a carbon copy of Keogh but with the bad bits emphasised! An all-action, last-ditch, disaster zone of a defender.

They're basically the same player, playing them together was a comically bad decision.

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Just now, Leeds Ram said:

He's still scored a lot more goals than Stretton at this level.  Stretton hasn't scored any league goals and has only had a couple of very brief cameos for us which is not really anything to base a player on. I honestly don't think we can afford to be taking gambles on untried and untested youth players that we hope might come good especially upfront which is our big problem atm. Baldock isn't perfect I'll grant you but he has experience and in the right system can score a few. 

True about Jagielka. I'm less worried about the quality of him than simply how many games we can squeeze out of him. 

Baldock's career suggests that the best you can hope for is between 5-10 and probably closer to 5 than 10. Think how much stick Waghorn got and Waghorn has a signficantly better record. Stretton is untested but has been prolific in u23s and given equal game time I'd wager would match or better Baldock's total. I just don't think Baldock moves the needle enough to warrant one of the 4 signings we can make right now as we need to squeeze as much as we can out of each of those signings and if/when things get a little easier for us we'd probably be better off looking elsewhere.

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1 minute ago, brady1993 said:

Baldock's career suggests that the best you can hope for is between 5-10 and probably closer to 5 than 10. Think how much stick Waghorn got and Waghorn has a signficantly better record. Stretton is untested but has been prolific in u23s and given equal game time I'd wager would match or better Baldock's total. I just don't think Baldock moves the needle enough to warrant one of the 4 signings we can make right now as we need to squeeze as much as we can out of each of those signings and if/when things get a little easier for us we'd probably be better off looking elsewhere.

The problem is there is nothing to base that wager on. It's just a hope that a good under 23 track record translates to a good track record in the second division of English football. I don't think we're in a position to make that wager at the moment. We need to bring strikers in to give us at least a little firepower besides an ageing CKR and Stretton who is completely untested in league football let alone at this level. 

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Jagielka, Mengi, Morrison, Aluko

I can see Jag and Mengi being the starting CB pairing so I picked them.

We lack creativity in midfield so included Morrison to pick a pass.

Aluko can play wide or central and further forward

I can’t see any of the others being starters so left them out 

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7 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

The problem is there is nothing to base that wager on. It's just a hope that a good under 23 track record translates to a good track record in the second division of English football. I don't think we're in a position to make that wager at the moment. We need to bring strikers in to give us at least a little firepower besides an ageing CKR and Stretton who is completely untested in league football let alone at this level. 

Ok let me reframe my argument. I agree that we need strikers and that CKR and Stretton is too light however I don't think in terms of the overall effect it has that adding Baldock to that makes a material difference. We'd still be left in a position were we arguably lack quality upfront and it will take away from a signing that might be more important in another area. For example if we go for something along the lines of 2x CBs, Aluko, Baldock then we are running a major risk at the CB spot if one of them gets injured as we have close to zero cover aside from really untested academy players or putting someone like Forsyth there. Especially as none of the centre back options we are looking at look reliably solid and capable of definately playing a full season. Baldock isn't good enough to mitigate the risk we'd be taking elsewhere in my view. 

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