Captain Tom Lawrence

[europia]

On 13/07/2021 at 21:17, DanS1992 said:

Well, one of the main instigators of the joiners shambles who has no visible leadership qualities is now club captain... When the going gets tough, do I honestly think Tom will be the man to rally the troops, be vocal and drag us through? The answer is no. Wrong decision for me this, I don't think he is captain material. Hope he proves me wrong.

Can't disagree. Rooney seemingly keen to prove that those who deem him to be totally clueless are spot on. 

[Rev]

I thought he was alright today. Maybe passed it when he previously would have shot.

[jono]

32 minutes ago, europia said:

Can't disagree. Rooney seemingly keen to prove that those who deem him to be totally clueless are spot on. 

So, a young guy who made a mistake, had lost a parent and was out with the team captain has no chance of redemption.? 

he was fit to play, fit to fulfill his contract, got his head down, was contrite, scored a few goals and got on with it. 
 

OK, for me Curtis has Captain written in his DNA but just maybe this is what it takes to lift Tom to another level ? 
I’m all for giving him a chance. 
 

[Rampage]

On 15/07/2021 at 18:25, Pearl Ram said:

Nah, same as Jaffa Cakes & Wagon Wheels, all shrunk in size, it’s the thin end of the wedge I tell you. 

Also true of potato wedges I tell thee.

[jono]

On 15/07/2021 at 18:37, Pearl Ram said:

I’ll resist the temptation to lower the tone and resort to smut (I really like the word smut, don’t know why, I just do) I kind of agree with where you are coming from but I still believe it’s a fact all three of the products I mentioned have reduced in size since their inception.

Love Smut .. it’s almost onomatopoeic ?

There was a Peter Cook and Dudley Moore sketch, way back

they were directors of “Soho Metropolitan United Travel and Interest pictures” otherwise known as Smutty Films 

Drivel is good too, also rather taken by Putrid .. I love our language 

[RoyMac5]

44 minutes ago, jono said:

Love Smut .. it’s almost onomatopoeic ?

There was a Peter Cook and Dudley Moore sketch, way back

they were directors of “Soho Metropolitan United Travel and Interest pictures” otherwise known as Smutty Films 

Drivel is good too, also rather taken by Putrid .. I love our language 

I'm quite fond of onomatopoeic myself.  

[europia]

On 18/07/2021 at 23:08, jono said:

So, a young guy who made a mistake, had lost a parent and was out with the team captain has no chance of redemption.? 

he was fit to play, fit to fulfill his contract, got his head down, was contrite, scored a few goals and got on with it. 
 

OK, for me Curtis has Captain written in his DNA but just maybe this is what it takes to lift Tom to another level ? 
I’m all for giving him a chance. 
 

I don't think there is anything at all in my post suggesting someone shouldn't get a second chance. In the case of Lawrence, DCFC have already done so, and have also facilitated his rehabilitation. Actually my view is, that this club already has a struggling rookie manager and appointing a captain who really hasn't shown leadership qualities just makes no sense at all. This wafer thin squad is likely to be in a relegation scrap from day one, and we really need a captain who is a leader and battler on the pitch. A token passing of the arm band to try and squeeze a bit more out of a high earning and rather underachieving player is not going to work well. My opinion only, of course.

[jono]

11 hours ago, europia said:

I don't think there is anything at all in my post suggesting someone shouldn't get a second chance. In the case of Lawrence, DCFC have already done so, and have also facilitated his rehabilitation. Actually my view is, that this club already has a struggling rookie manager and appointing a captain who really hasn't shown leadership qualities just makes no sense at all. This wafer thin squad is likely to be in a relegation scrap from day one, and we really need a captain who is a leader and battler on the pitch. A token passing of the arm band to try and squeeze a bit more out of a high earning and rather underachieving player is not going to work well. My opinion only, of course.

As to your first sentence, no there probably wasn’t, but the dripping sarcasm directed at Rooney and Lawrence made your opinion abundantly clear. From my post you’ll gather that we don’t agree. 

[Alty_Ram]

With so few goals scored last year and so few forward options, we really do need Lawrence to be scoring regularly this year. Will captaincy weigh on his shoulders or will it bring the best out in him ? I'm just a little worried that if it's a real struggle as a team then his head might go down because I think we've seen that as a player.

You know what you're going to get with CKR and he chipped in OK last year in spells but he's never going to be prolific. We were desperately short of goals in the team in general so goalscoring contributions from the likes of Lawrence, Jozwiak, Knight and even Sibley are surely going to be crucial if we are going to give ourselves any chance this year.

Anyway, good luck Tom.

[Dimmu]

Maybe the real reason why Lawrence is a captain is Rooney's fragile leadership. 

Weak captain is not gonna hijack the managerial post, like he personally did. Clever man, our Wayne. Learning from Cocu's mistake.

[Anon]

On 18/07/2021 at 22:08, jono said:

So, a young guy who made a mistake, had lost a parent and was out with the team captain has no chance of redemption.? 

he was fit to play, fit to fulfill his contract, got his head down, was contrite, scored a few goals and got on with it. 
 

How is being elevated to a position he didn't previously hold a form of redemption? Personally I don't think it's that important who the captain is, but given that our club obviously puts enough weight on the position to justify sacking someone for gross misconduct if they don't behave properly when given the armband, you have to wonder what kind of example this sets. Break the law, bring the club into disrepute, and as long as you can go 9 months without committing another crime you'll be rewarded. Brilliant.

[May Contain Nuts]

33 minutes ago, Anon said:

How is being elevated to a position he didn't previously hold a form of redemption? Personally I don't think it's that important who the captain is, but given that our club obviously puts enough weight on the position to justify sacking someone for gross misconduct if they don't behave properly when given the armband, you have to wonder what kind of example this sets. Break the law, bring the club into disrepute, and as long as you can go 9 months without committing another crime you'll be rewarded. Brilliant.

Acknowledge your part in something, show remorse and apologise for it, take your punishment on the chin, show strength and character by overcoming personal trauma (after accepting help, a step many never even reach) and work your way into a position where the rest of the squad respects you, your manager respects you and you might just get rewarded for it.

Rooney's made positive comments about how Lawrence has been with the squad during his time as manager. He was already 'redeemed' in the eyes of those within the club. The captaincy isn't redemption, it's a footballing decision. It may not be a decision we agree with looking in from the outside, but it is the decision that's been made.

I think it's important who the captain is if they've been the captain for 3, 4, 5+ years and had a defence built around them, but the way we handed it around last made it almost valueless.  Often when a new manager takes over at a club one of the first things they'll do is seek out the captain to give him a lowdown on the character of the squad, there's power in the role.

Power that I'm glad someone who refuses to do any of the above (and shows exactly what sort of character he really is) no longer has.

Whether you like Lawrence or not, he's made mistakes and the people closest to the situation feel that he's learned from them and is a better person now. 2 years later I'd rather have him at the club than the greedy ****** crying about things being 'unfair' and who still hasn't apologised for his actions because it would have harmed his undeserved payout.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Coconut

[jono]

38 minutes ago, Anon said:

How is being elevated to a position he didn't previously hold a form of redemption? Personally I don't think it's that important who the captain is, but given that our club obviously puts enough weight on the position to justify sacking someone for gross misconduct if they don't behave properly when given the armband, you have to wonder what kind of example this sets. Break the law, bring the club into disrepute, and as long as you can go 9 months without committing another crime you'll be rewarded. Brilliant.

I think the arguments relative to the positions of Keogh and the others have been discussed at length some time ago.

Tom, before the incident, was considered a top player / potential talisman .. but he blotted his copy book. He was punished. He got his head down and sought to redeemed himself. I think he succeeded in that. This in itself puts him as a candidate for whatever the club decides. Personally I would always want a Curtis type of man, as a team captain but the decision isn’t mine and Tom, having redeemed himself has a earned the chance to be considered for the role. 

[Srg]

Have it on excellent authority that Lawrence, Jagielka and few more were at Angelo's in Duffield last night...

I obviously poo myself, but it was confirmed they were on water and coke (the drink).

[hintonsboots]

2 minutes ago, Srg said:

Have it on excellent authority that Lawrence, Jagielka and few more were at Angelo's in Duffield last night...

I obviously poo myself, but it was confirmed they were on water and coke (the drink).

With half a bottle of vodka in the handbag......allegedly.

[Tyler Durden]

35 minutes ago, Coconut said:

Whether you like Lawrence or not, he's made mistakes and the people closest to the situation feel that he's learned from them and is a better person now. 2 years later I'd rather have him at the club than the greedy ****** crying about things being 'unfair' and who still hasn't apologised for his actions because it would have harmed his undeserved payout.

Just remember that the person you refuse to name only had the opportunity to win an unfair dismissal claim against the club as the other protagonists in the episode weren't sanctioned at this level (rightly or wrongly as I cba to open that debate again)

So who's to say that if all of them had been sanctioned equally then Lawrence et al wouldn't have behaved in exactly the same manner as the unnamed one? We'll never know.

Interestingly for me as well is that part of the reason the person was sanctioned differently was that he was club captain at the time, will be insightful to see if Lawrence does cluck up again in the future then he subsequently gets an accelerated form of punishment accordingly. 

Anyhows regards him being club captain am pretty ambivalent about the whole thing, I do hope that it makes him realise that being a captain means he has to lead by example ON the pitch. Let's see. 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Tyler Durden
Typo

[Allen]

Curtis Davies (if we re-sign him) always strikes me as the perfect captain. But Curtis will always be a leader whether or not he wears the armband. If making Tom captain helps him to reach his undoubted potential on a more consistent basis I'm all for giving it a go.

[May Contain Nuts]

Just now, Tyler Durden said:

Just remember that the person you refuse to name only had the opportunity to win an unfair dismissal claim against the club as the other protagonists in the episode weren't sanctioned at this level (rightly or wrongly as I cba to open that debate again)

So who's to say that if all of them had been sanctioned equally then Lawrence et al wouldn't have behaved in exactly the same manner as the unnamed one? We'll never know.

Interestingly for me as well is that part of the reason the person was sanctioned differently was that he was club captain at the time, will be insightful to see if Lawrence does cluck up again in the future then he subsequently gets an accelerated form of punishment accordingly. 

Anyhows regards him being club captain and pretty ambivalent about the whole thing, I do hope that it makes him realise that being a caption means he has to lead by example ON the pitch. Let's see. 

That's fair enough and as you say, we'll never know unless it happens again!

[RadioactiveWaste]

9 minutes ago, Allen said:

Curtis Davies (if we re-sign him) always strikes me as the perfect captain. But Curtis will always be a leader whether or not he wears the armband. If making Tom captain helps him to reach his undoubted potential on a more consistent basis I'm all for giving it a go.

I think it's more "will it encourage Lawrence" than "Lawrence is the natural leader" - as many have said, there'll be those in the squad who are that person and will be that person no matter what.

[Allen]

I think even the biggest Lawrence detractor accepts he has undoubted ability. We all know Tom's past and without condoning his actions there were many circumstances that made it understandable. Wayne Rooney is now our manager and love him or hate him is probably in the best situation to say the lad (and the team) will benefit from this decision. Only time will tell if he is right or wrong but let's at least back the lad and give him a chance.