Has the transfer embargo been lifted?

[eccles the ram]

Yogi would be pleased!

[ariotofmyown]

"Em Bargo, Em Bargo, Corrupt like in the Congo"

Repeat over and over to jungle beat.

[kevinhectoring]

On 15/07/2021 at 20:31, Charlotte Ram said:

No chance of administration, Mel is the only one who can put the club into admin and it would not help him recover his cash, he is a preferential creditor as are MSD holdings who have a lien on everything according to documents at companies house. 

Seems right there’s no chance of administration, because Mel would do what it takes to avoid it.  But can’t MSD appoint an administrator? 

[Gringo]

5 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

Seems right there’s no chance of administration, because Mel would do what it takes to avoid it.  But can’t MSD appoint an administrator? 

No because it would potentially compromise their security, they would also need a reason and I can assume Mel is keeping up the payments on the loan so why would they.

[Ken Tram]

On 15/07/2021 at 18:43, Dean (hick) Saunders said:

I couldn’t pay £1k knowing it’s only filling some young kids back pocket for a couple of days (hardly any) work when I had to work really hard to earn the £1k. Just could not bring myself…

Good luck to those that do though.

I hear what you say. I am being a bit argumentative.

£1,000 is £20 a week for one year. Less than £3 per day. Over three years, it's less than £1 per day. Over 10 years, it's less than 10p per day.

And such an investment might right the ship for the next ten years.

I don't get how we want someone to find £60 million, if we reject finding £1,000 ourselves.

Maybe you hit the nail on the head - we see astronomical amounts being paid to footballers, and when it's our own money, we cannot justify it. That's why, it seems so important to have sustainable balanced budgets.

PS. The amount of money was based on an owner like Mel matching what each individual invested - so it still takes on wealthy investors.

[Ken Tram]

On 15/07/2021 at 19:02, mwram1973 said:

You think I want some of the window lickers on ere running my club. Have you seen some of the comments?? ?

Have you seen some of my comments! No thanks to fans like me running the club! But, investing in the club. Maybe.

[Ken Tram]

On 15/07/2021 at 18:55, GenBr said:

Why would anyone want to put £1000 into paying the debts of a club for nothing in return. 

And you would be very hard pressed to run the club at break even and still be competitive. Only a few clubs in the championship do and most of the time they are yoyo clubs

But, if you're right - then you are saying that the only way to remain competitive - is to fund the club without getting a return.

In any case, the return would be the club being competitive.

If Derby being competitive is worth something - how much is it worth?

Edited July 18, 2021 by Ken Tram

[GenBr]

17 minutes ago, Ken Tram said:

But, if you're right - then you are saying that the only way to remain competitive - is to fund the club without getting a return.

In any case, the return would be the club being competitive.

If Derby being competitive is worth something - how much is it worth?

You need a billionaire or very rich individual to fund the club, because they are the only people who can afford to do it. The common man can't just throw money down the toilet for no reason. The most successful fan owned club is probably wimbledon and they've still sold shares to a multi millionaire and struggle to compete in league 1

Derby County winning a few games is nowhere near enough of a reason for most people to invest thousands of pounds. We might be competitive in league 1 if we became entirely fan funded but it's a big if. 

Derby is not a rich city and whilst i am sure their are individuals like yourself who can afford to throw money at the local football club it is far from the norm here.

[Tyler Durden]

45 minutes ago, Ken Tram said:

I hear what you say. I am being a bit argumentative.

£1,000 is £20 a week for one year. Less than £3 per day. Over three years, it's less than £1 per day. Over 10 years, it's less than 10p per day.

And such an investment might right the ship for the next ten years.

I don't get how we want someone to find £60 million, if we reject finding £1,000 ourselves.

Maybe you hit the nail on the head - we see astronomical amounts being paid to footballers, and when it's our own money, we cannot justify it. That's why, it seems so important to have sustainable balanced budgets.

PS. The amount of money was based on an owner like Mel matching what each individual invested - so it still takes on wealthy investors.

Bit strange your use of the words invest and investors. I wouldn't invest any money into the club at the moment as I wouldn't think I'd get any return on my investment or even get my investment back. 

Surely the more appropriate word is donate? 

I can't think of any business person who would have thought that Derby was a sound investment, if they are willing to donate their hard earned capital in subsidising the running of the club then fair enough, that's probably why the club has been for sale for aeons now. 

[kevinhectoring]

13 hours ago, Charlotte Ram said:

No because it would potentially compromise their security, they would also need a reason and I can assume Mel is keeping up the payments on the loan so why would they.

I think you’re saying that MSD can petition for administration which is what I thought (I wasn’t asking whether they would, I agree with you on that). I think it’s that case that any creditor can petition in fact (but haven’t checked that)

[Ken Tram]

3 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Bit strange your use of the words invest and investors. I wouldn't invest any money into the club at the moment as I wouldn't think I'd get any return on my investment or even get my investment back. 

Surely the more appropriate word is donate? 

I can't think of any business person who would have thought that Derby was a sound investment, if they are willing to donate their hard earned capital in subsidising the running of the club then fair enough, that's probably why the club has been for sale for aeons now. 

Whatever the basis upon which we want the current owner, or new owner, to invest in the club - it is that same definition that I would apply to an investment by a fan.

I've not heard of anyone asking potential new owners to make a donation to the club.

[Ken Tram]

3 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Bit strange your use of the words invest and investors. I wouldn't invest any money into the club at the moment as I wouldn't think I'd get any return on my investment or even get my investment back. 

Surely the more appropriate word is donate? 

I can't think of any business person who would have thought that Derby was a sound investment, if they are willing to donate their hard earned capital in subsidising the running of the club then fair enough, that's probably why the club has been for sale for aeons now. 

If you or I bought one 60,000th of the club for £1,000 ... and if promotion to the Premiership is worth £130 million, rising to £260m if an immediate relegation back down is avoided ... then we would stand to double or quadruple our money.

Even if shares had to be diluted, if fan investment made the club more viable, then future investment by wealthier investors might be more likely, which might even mean an increase in share value, even without promotion. (Or, at least, not losing all of the investment.)

I don't know ... it just seems like the opposite scenario ... of the club becoming less financially viable, or bankrupt, seems a lot worse.

For a fan ... the return is not just financial, I suppose.

[Ken Tram]

3 hours ago, GenBr said:

You need a billionaire or very rich individual to fund the club, because they are the only people who can afford to do it. The common man can't just throw money down the toilet for no reason. The most successful fan owned club is probably wimbledon and they've still sold shares to a multi millionaire and struggle to compete in league 1

Derby County winning a few games is nowhere near enough of a reason for most people to invest thousands of pounds. We might be competitive in league 1 if we became entirely fan funded but it's a big if. 

Derby is not a rich city and whilst i am sure their are individuals like yourself who can afford to throw money at the local football club it is far from the norm here.

There are two issues. What fans can afford. And whether football should be financially sustainable.

Or maybe there is one issue. That fans should be able to fund affordable and sustainable football.

I thought that I'd look up what you said about Wimbledon, and the top article is about 8,000 Hearts fans who have made average direct debit payments of £16.50 per month for six years, which, coincidentally, is more than £1,000.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/english-soccer/michael-walker-hearts-and-wimbledon-show-that-fan-ownership-model-can-work-1.4164385

Obviously, Edinburgh is wealthier than Derby. The average property price seems to be 30% higher.

Based upon this, I don't think that it is impossible for fans to contribute a significant investment. [Or donation.]

The second part is whether or not it is a viable investment. If it seems impossible to maintain a viable and competitive team within a sustainable balanced budget - for a club with one of the largest fan bases, and within a footballing city - then maybe we need to change how football is run.

There is absolutely no reason why football cannot be a financially sustainable sport. 

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

Is admin worse than the purgatory we are in now?

[Tyler Durden]

47 minutes ago, Ken Tram said:

Whatever the basis upon which we want the current owner, or new owner, to invest in the club - it is that same definition that I would apply to an investment by a fan.

I've not heard of anyone asking potential new owners to make a donation to the club.

I know but I don't think Mel Morris would dare put an advert out saying donations from any philanthropists welcome as at the moment that's what it would be considered, not an investment. 

Derby are not seen as a viable business proposition let's face it.

[RoyMac5]

25 minutes ago, Dean (hick) Saunders said:

Is admin worse than the purgatory we are in now?

Yes, the probability is all our vaguely good players will be bought off us for a pittance. Like we did with Byrne and Marshall from Wigan. Plus lots of small firms will undoubtedly lose money.

Edited July 18, 2021 by RoyMac5

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

Is the end point the same...?

L1 with good players gone, guess I want putting out of my misery quicker rather than slower if misery is the only option.

[kevinhectoring]

34 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Derby are not seen as a viable business proposition let's face it.

I don’t know why you would say that. Problem is, how do you value a club in a pandemic? Does freedom day mean revenues will return to normal? Or will we slide back into distanced or even non-existent attendance by fans? Buyers will be cautious and sellers will have the opposite view. So there will be a massive gap between what is offered and what is asked for. 
As a result, it’s quite likely the club won’t be sold until we’re out of the pandemic. Because Mel will think, I’d rather fund the short term cash need than give the club away for a song 

[Tyler Durden]

2 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

I don’t know why you would say that. Problem is, how do you value a club in a pandemic? Does freedom day mean revenues will return to normal? Or will we slide back into distanced or even non-existent attendance by fans? Buyers will be cautious and sellers will have the opposite view. So there will be a massive gap between what is offered and what is asked for. 
As a result, it’s quite likely the club won’t be sold until we’re out of the pandemic. Because Mel will think, I’d rather fund the short term cash need than give the club away for a song 

I'm calling it as things are being played out, hence the total vacuum of any serious investor wanting to take on the club.

I've already posted some time ago that the longer it takes for an investor to come in then the likelihood of thst investor materialising becomes more and more remote - you mention when we get free from the pandemic, how long will that be, this year, next year it's totally manyana atm. 

I can't see the economy picking up dramatically over the next 12 months, I can't see interest rates rising much if any over that period so we're going to be stuck in that financial rut for a long while yet. 

 

[JfR]

Does anyone know if this issue with "professional standing" players is a new thing? I ask, because I hadn't heard of it being a rule previously, and I can't find any relevant results when searching "EFL professional standing" from before 2021. It feels an especially egregious situation if this is a rule that has only been introduced in the last few months, after players had already played in the Chorley game.