Have we progressed at all under Rooney?

[LeedsCityRam]

5 hours ago, David said:

An outlandish proposal which was suggested with a topic of it’s own on this very forum.

Wasn’t long ago that fans were calling for us to appoint Rafa Benitez.

You’re being very naive if you think that the fan base will be looking to a manager that has only got Barrow and Bolton on his CV.

Saying all that, if we’re going to cycle through managers every 30 games, at some point we will have to look further down for appointments. 

Apparently Mel is the mad trigger happy one…

30 odd games, good grief. Not even a full season ?

Why is that relevant?

We all know a lot of fans are incredibly fickle & tend to change their opinions after a run of 4/5 games either positive or negative. And anyone who seriously thought Benitez would look twice at us needs to adjust their perspective drastically.

The key criteria is getting the right man for the job based on prior experience & then sticking with him. Ian Evatt has a) a successful track record at two clubs & b) has demonstrated he can deliver teams that play good football. Look at the managers at successful clubs in this division - Daniel Farke, Valerian Ismael, Thomas Frank, Steve Cooper - who had heard of any of these before they started at their respective clubs?

As to your last sentence, Rooney is 11 games off a complete season with us - more time than Phil Brown got, more time than Nigel Pearson got, more time than Steve McClaren second time round got, more time than Paul Clement got. Whilst I totally accept there are some mitigating circumstances as to why Rooney has done so badly, the idea that we're not allowed to call for his removal because everything wasn't set up perfectly for him makes no sense. Phil Brown had a similarly grim time here off-field with players sold over his head, a thin squad & unlike Rooney, with a genuinely awful Board/owners - no-one bemoaned Brown's departure or thought he had more to give though. Why does Rooney get special treatment?

[Leeds Ram]

1 minute ago, David said:

Go on then, draw me up a shortlist of managers you would like to see us interview, top 5…

Ian Evatt 

Paul Cook 

Nigel Adkins (often seen as yesterday's man but got charlton into 7th this season) 

possibly Neil Critchley- just got blackpool promoted, is extremely well credentialed in coaching badges and managed the liverpool under 23's. 

and then of course chris wilder ? 

[David]

2 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

Ian Evatt 

Paul Cook 

Nigel Adkins (often seen as yesterday's man but got charlton into 7th this season) 

possibly Neil Critchley- just got blackpool promoted, is extremely well credentialed in coaching badges and managed the liverpool under 23's. 

and then of course chris wilder ? 

Ian Evatt, started off well, Barrow and Bolton, couldn’t tell you anymore about him, style of football, signings he’s made and all that.

Paul Cook has been at Ipswich for 4 months. Won just 4 of the 16 games in charge.

Nigel Adkins? Only managed Charlton for 10 games and they were 8th when he took over!

Neil Critchley, can see why he’s been suggested, took Blackpool up, but couldn’t tell you anything more about him same as Evatt.

Chris Wilder? Ridiculous.

If that’s the top 5, with the cost it would be to sack him, think I’ll stick with Rooney but thanks all the same

[Leeds Ram]

3 minutes ago, David said:

Ian Evatt, started off well, Barrow and Bolton, couldn’t tell you anymore about him, style of football, signings he’s made and all that.

Paul Cook has been at Ipswich for 4 months. Won just 4 of the 16 games in charge.

Nigel Adkins? Only managed Charlton for 10 games and they were 8th when he took over!

Neil Critchley, can see why he’s been suggested, took Blackpool up, but couldn’t tell you anything more about him same as Evatt.

Chris Wilder? Ridiculous.

If that’s the top 5, with the cost it would be to sack him, think I’ll stick with Rooney but thanks all the same

Chris wilder was a joke David.... thought that was clear with the winky face. 

Evatt, Cook, Adkins, and Critchley all have more experience than our current manager with Adkins and Cook doing a good job at this level of football in the past. Cook just winning 4 of the last 16 still means he's got a better recent record than our man...  Critchley and Evatt are more of a gamble in the sense they've not managed at this level I guess? 

I believe Evatt is well known for playing attractive football as his Barrow team were nicknamed 'Barrowcelona' and he set up a possession orientated approach at Bolton as opposed to the more traditional direct football at the club. 

I think the big problem with sticking with Rooney because you don't fancy anyone else (even when you don't know the way they play) it's not exactly much of an endorsement of the current management structure. Rooney is currently an indefensible choice on the 'positives' of his reign, all that is left are apologists for our abject performances under his tenure and the fact he'll cost us to get rid of him. 

[David]

3 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

Evatt, Cook, Adkins, and Critchley all have more experience than our current manager

That’s that then, let’s get Paul Jewell back, bags of experience!

[Anag Ram]

24 minutes ago, David said:

That’s that then, let’s get Paul Jewell back, bags of experience!

I think you mean experience of bags. 

[Ramarena]

43 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

I think you mean experience of bags. 

I think Rooney beats Jewell hands down in that department!

[Leeds Ram]

1 hour ago, David said:

That’s that then, let’s get Paul Jewell back, bags of experience!

nice selective quotation to change the meaning of my post there David. 

[David]

6 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

nice selective quotation to change the meaning of my post there David. 

[IslandExile]

2 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Why does Rooney get special treatment?

Because those ignorant about football, sorry 'soccer', may be attracted by a name they've heard.

[Nuwtfly]

It's a fair question, but largely irrelevant at this stage.

If we want to focus on the Rooney up until this point, then the answer to the question is: no, absolutely not. Under his management, our Championship status went down to the final day. That is a sackable offence. It would be for any other manager. You can make as many excuses, loopholes, bend over backwards as many times as you like to try and defend his frankly awful start to his management career, but it doesn't change what has been and gone.

But this is the key point: it has been and gone.

Last season is now over (thank god), and our focus now needs to be on the season rapidly approaching. We can continue to argue about it, and Rooney, until the Rams come home, but it means nothing now. Whether he deserves/has earned the opportunity to manage us next season is debatable; it doesn't matter. He is going to be here no matter what, maybe because he is too expensive to sack, maybe because Mel really is convinced that he has got it in him to do a good job. That remains to be seen. 

So what do we do now?

If you were Rooney In: Get behind him.

If you were Rooney Out: Get behind him.

That's all you can do at this stage.

I for one am very much looking forward to seeing what this "style of play" is going to be, and why he was seemingly unable to implement it last season. He is going to get his chance. Time for him to prove the considerable (and understandable) doubters wrong...or right. 

 

[minesahartington]

Would we have gone down with Cocu?

Yes probably

Did we stay up with Rooney

Yes definitely 

[Tyler Durden]

Predictably this thread has now descended into the tired and hackneyed one set of factions saying ok who would do a better job than Rooney, the other side then proposing a list of candidate names which then get poo pooed one by one by the first set of factions. 

The same "arguments" were used to defend Cocu I recall before his demise when he was having an equally appalling run of results. 

I challenge anyone to say that Rooney has got the best out of the players at his disposal and I also challenge anyone to say which ones of the youth or breakthrough players have progressed under him.

Tough lesson I learnt in business many years ago was that if your bosses don't think you're getting the best out of the staff you have currently then you either are removed from your job or if you go cap in hand asking for extra resources then you will be told in no uncertain terms that you need to start showing that you can manage the resources you currently have before this is even countenanced which if it doesn't transpire will then lead to you being removed from your job. 

Don't see why this should be any different for Rooney and quite frankly he's only survived due to Mel's protracted efforts at selling the club.

[Jimbo Ram]

The point of my post was to get a discussion going on what progress we had seen on the pitch since Rooney took over. In over 4 pages of posts nobody has come up with a single example. I think my question has been answered ?

[Oldben]

When the local paper headlines "Derby are heading for another season of crisis", that's bleak.

The article goes on to say how this can be turned around.

Looking at positions within the team that needs to strengthen, how do you strengthen when your looking at free agents and loans.

Loans depend in part on Rooneys name, but are clubs really saying to him, here have one of our best young players on loan.

Do young players really recognise Rooney as a star in today, and therefore want to play for Derby.

How much quality can Derby attract or afford to bring in.

Imagine if you were the new owner at Derby, would you trust Rooney to lead the club forward and get them out of trouble in coming season, based on last seasons results.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

1 hour ago, Oldben said:

When the local paper headlines "Derby are heading for another season of crisis", that's bleak.

The article goes on to say how this can be turned around.

Looking at positions within the team that needs to strengthen, how do you strengthen when your looking at free agents and loans.

Loans depend in part on Rooneys name, but are clubs really saying to him, here have one of our best young players on loan.

Do young players really recognise Rooney as a star in today, and therefore want to play for Derby.

How much quality can Derby attract or afford to bring in.

Imagine if you were the new owner at Derby, would you trust Rooney to lead the club forward and get them out of trouble in coming season, based on last seasons results.

They will have severe doubts I'm sure but any new owner is going to,initially,give him the benefit of the doubt and a chance to do a job.

If we are in the depths of the division after a couple of months then his position will be up for review.

I suppose he is in the same boat with the fans....especially the South stand who will soon make their feelings clear once again...good or bad.

We have missed that.

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong

[NottsRam77]

With regret the topic of this entire thread should be have we progressed under mel 

I love him for what he’s tried to do for us , the money he’s thrown at every manager, the money he’s thrown at the facilities and academy to give the club he loves every chance to be competitive in the future but sadly we’re staring at a total car crash 

and it saddens me to say that, it really does 

[IslandExile]

1 hour ago, Jimbo Ram said:

The point of my post was to get a discussion going on what progress we had seen on the pitch since Rooney took over. In over 4 pages of posts nobody has come up with a single example. I think my question has been answered ?

Ok, here's one..... When playing the ball from the back, we're now kicking it higher than ever before.

[strawhillram]

On 22/06/2021 at 08:51, Jimbo Ram said:

Just had a little look at the statistics, the facts on the pitch since Rooney became Manager. Without dwelling on it they do not make great reading. His win % is 27.8, we have lost exactly half the games he has been manager and he averages 1.05 points per game. This is worse than Cocu's record of 32.31 win % and 1.25 points per game. So let's put to bed once and for all comments that Rooney has done better than Cocu. But the question I am asking is has anything actually improved since he took over? Has he developed his own style of play? Are we playing more attractive football? Are we more solid at the back? Are we more of a threat going forward? Has he worked well and helped to develop the youngsters? Did he make some decent signings? So despite the actual stats showing things have got worse on the pitch under Wazza, have there been any positive developments? Thoughts????

Progressed backwards and downwards 

[Rample]

No.

Not got players playing anything like championship standard or implemented a winning or improved mindset.

No new ideas, not even managed to show what he wants us to play

All young players have regressed.

Not convinced anyone at the club to stay because we have any prospects of onfield progress.

Not been able to use contacts to secure decent impacrful loans or links to Bosmans

No clear gameplan or style.

Continued media circus, always putting himself in the press.

Simply not worth the money.