World of crypto

[GboroRam]

On 10/06/2021 at 20:31, Van der MoodHoover said:

I haven't yet been able to work out what stands behind crypto currencies in the way central banks do for notes and coins.

Isn't that the point though - effectively there's nothing behind fiat currency. Even when it was on the gold standard, it was backed by a fairly useless mineral that's not really that scarce. Now it's backed by a bank's promise, nothing more.

[Van der MoodHoover]

Just now, GboroRam said:

Isn't that the point though - effectively there's nothing behind fiat currency. Even when it was on the gold standard, it was backed by a fairly useless mineral that's not really that scarce. Now it's backed by a bank's promise, nothing more.

But with a central bank you've got the backing of the state - for the notes and coins in circulation that is.... Not for the fiat loans made by the banking sector. 

What's the equivalent for the crypto? But I suppose a valid question might be "does it matter"? 

[NottsRam77]

On 11/06/2021 at 09:23, Stive Pesley said:

Yeah - but in terms of it replacing fiat currencies for day to day life - can you see it? 

 

Honestly who knows … what I will say is

We already pay for most of of goods either digitally online, digitally through our phones , watches or contactlessly with our cards 

how much physical cash do u hand over a counter every week? Bet it’s peanuts compared to what u spend digitally 

so there’s no arguing we are moving towards a digital future with currency even in the last 2 years which is a pin rick in terms of timescale 

I assume u are aware there is already digital versions of the USD ? There are many forms of it depending on which network, these are arable coins and are linked directly to the value of the dollar 

there is also digital pax gold 

10 years from now … do u think it’s not a possibility 

I personally think it’s highly highly likely 

maybe not in its current guise but in some way or another 

I wager with anyone in 10 years time digital currency will be as part of our lives as notes are now 

Edited June 12, 2021 by NottsRam77

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 hour ago, NottsRam77 said:

Honestly who knows … what I will say is

We already pay for most of of goods either digitally online, digitally through our phones , watches or contactlessly with our cards 

how much physical cash do u hand over a counter every week? Bet it’s peanuts compared to what u spend digitally 

so there’s no arguing we are moving towards a digital future with currency even in the last 2 years which is a pin rick in terms of timescale 

I assume u are aware there is already digital versions of the USD ? There are many forms of it depending on which network, these are arable coins and are linked directly to the value of the dollar 

there is also digital pax gold 

10 years from now … do u think it’s not a possibility 

I personally think it’s highly highly likely 

maybe not in its current guise but in some way or another 

I wager with anyone in 10 years time digital currency will be as part of our lives as notes are now 

There is i think a distinction between digital currency transactions and a digital currency as an alternative to the $ or £.

Tech firms who are disrupting the payments industry are easily understandable and you can see the value proposition and price the business accordingly. 

What I cannot get my head around is the actual substation of a $with a bitcoin and why that action, independently of the transacting piece, should create any "value" out of thin air.

I get that currencies fluctuate against each other...purchasing power parity. The last new currency was the € and its varied versus the £ from about 1 to 1.4. But some of these cryptocurrencies are allegedly appreciating by %000s...

Now I say allegedly because maybe all the value growth is in the digitisation of the payments process and the disintermediation of the banks.

But that seems unlikely. Hence what is the reason other than pure speculative gambling for a cryptocurrency to gain "vale". Is there one? I just don't understand. 

[GboroRam]

1 hour ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

There is i think a distinction between digital currency transactions and a digital currency as an alternative to the $ or £.

Tech firms who are disrupting the payments industry are easily understandable and you can see the value proposition and price the business accordingly. 

What I cannot get my head around is the actual substation of a $with a bitcoin and why that action, independently of the transacting piece, should create any "value" out of thin air.

I get that currencies fluctuate against each other...purchasing power parity. The last new currency was the € and its varied versus the £ from about 1 to 1.4. But some of these cryptocurrencies are allegedly appreciating by %000s...

Now I say allegedly because maybe all the value growth is in the digitisation of the payments process and the disintermediation of the banks.

But that seems unlikely. Hence what is the reason other than pure speculative gambling for a cryptocurrency to gain "vale". Is there one? I just don't understand. 

I think the point is, fiat is also created out of thin air. Its entirely at the whim of government to create it. 

[Spanish]

1 hour ago, GboroRam said:

I think the point is, fiat is also created out of thin air. Its entirely at the whim of government to create it. 

Much depends on the value of the entity who makes the promise to pay the bearer.  I tend to rely on the BOE’s word more than any other

[cstand]

22 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Isn't that the point though - effectively there's nothing behind fiat currency. Even when it was on the gold standard, it was backed by a fairly useless mineral that's not really that scarce. Now it's backed by a bank's promise, nothing more.

So you support MMT and Gordon Brown selling half of our gold reserves cheap as chips? Unfortunately that’s the only conclusion I can take from your post.

Edited June 12, 2021 by cstand

[NottsRam77]

9 hours ago, GboroRam said:

I think the point is, fiat is also created out of thin air. Its entirely at the whim of government to create it. 

And devalue it if they see fit … by printing more should they chose decide to … to inflate their way out of all this COVID debt 

[uttoxram75]

3 hours ago, NottsRam77 said:

And devalue it if they see fit … by printing more should they chose decide to … to inflate their way out of all this COVID debt 

Theres no covid debt. We don't owe it to anyone.

[GboroRam]

12 hours ago, cstand said:

So you support MMT and Gordon Brown selling half of our gold reserves cheap as chips? Unfortunately that’s the only conclusion I can take from your post.

Yes, well done on derailing another thread. 

[NottsRam77]

9 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

Theres no covid debt. We don't owe it to anyone.

????wtf lol

we and other countries can’t just give ourselves money lol

Why do they talk about the country borrowing money and the national debt ?

if someone borrows something isn’t that implying that it’s not theirs and someone else owns it 

so it needs repaying to whoever or whatever ?

Edited June 13, 2021 by NottsRam77

[uttoxram75]

8 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

????wtf lol

we and other countries can’t just give ourselves money lol

Why do they talk about the country borrowing money and the national debt ?

if someone borrows something isn’t that implying that it’s not theirs and someone else owns it 

so it needs repaying to whoever or whatever ?

The bank of England provided the money. Its owned by the British government.

[NottsRam77]

48 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

The bank of England provided the money. Its owned by the British government.

But we still owe it 

they don’t just give it us lol

They still have to submit to the imf 

currencies are being debased

 The central banks print money, and buy government bonds

The government, all governments are borrowing from the future

The government then pays the interest on the debt
But if the central bank raises rates, the government is going to struggle to repay it.

Which leads to higher taxes

The loss of faith in the major currencies is because the central banks, who essentially issue money by decree (meaning of fiat), promotes the whole “if you can just print money, why are we paying tax” issue

You could also say that we don’t owe it to ankther country. True. But that means the pound loses value to the rest of the world. Who wants to store wealth in a country that prints?. See Zimbabwe

But when all Central banks do it at the same time, how is anyone supposed to store value?

More money, chasing less goods, is inflationary.
 

 

Edited June 13, 2021 by NottsRam77

[uttoxram75]

Just now, NottsRam77 said:

But we still owe it 

they don’t just give it us 

Its a bit like if you go for a meal with the missus, you go to pay and find you don't have enough, so she pays instead. 

 

[uttoxram75]

8 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

But we still owe it 

they don’t just give it us lol

They still have to submit to the imf 

currencies are being debased

 The central banks print money, and buy government bonds

The government, all governments are borrowing from the future

 

And thats all they ever have done. As long as they pay the bonds at the agreed time spread over how many years. They can keep doing it and never have to repay the whole lot in one go.

There's a lot of rubbish out there about the national debt but as long as most of it is owed to ourselves, ie the Bank of England, its no problem.

As long as it doesn't cause a big blip in inflation its never going to be a problem.

 

Just don't try it with the missus though, she'll be nagging for it back pretty quickly.

 

[NottsRam77]

On 13/06/2021 at 11:49, uttoxram75 said:

And thats all they ever have done. As long as they pay the bonds at the agreed time spread over how many years. They can keep doing it and never have to repay the whole lot in one go.

There's a lot of rubbish out there about the national debt but as long as most of it is owed to ourselves, ie the Bank of England, its no problem.

As long as it doesn't cause a big blip in inflation its never going to be a problem.

 

Just don't try it with the missus though, she'll be nagging for it back pretty quickly.

 

And there in lies the issue 

because of COVID we / them / us are borrowing more from the future than we ever have …. Result … heightened inflation 

so the pound or whichever fiat currency it is loses value against fixed assets of value 

[NottsRam77]

On 13/06/2021 at 11:38, uttoxram75 said:

Its a bit like if you go for a meal with the missus, you go to pay and find you don't have enough, so she pays instead. 

 

Great anonolgy … I don’t think it’s right but literally made me lol ?

[Igor_111]

Wow. I didn't realise this thread even existed here. 

For those that are into buying crypto, you could do far worse than to look at fegtoken.com. Will completely revolutionise the defi space. 

Passive e income to be earned everywhere you look. Personally, I'm hoping this enables me to do a 4 day working week rather than 5 initially. Hoping to retire within 3 years max. 

I can't really do it justice here so check out the website FAQs if interested. I promise you that you won't regret looking at least. 

Happy to answer any questions you may have. 

 

[alexxxxx]

Call me old fashioned but what happened to making and doing stuff for people to make wealth rather than just speculation on crypto and house prices. 

[Stive Pesley]

3 hours ago, Igor_111 said:

Wow. I didn't realise this thread even existed here. 

For those that are into buying crypto, you could do far worse than to look at fegtoken.com. Will completely revolutionise the defi space. 

Passive e income to be earned everywhere you look. Personally, I'm hoping this enables me to do a 4 day working week rather than 5 initially. Hoping to retire within 3 years max. 

I can't really do it justice here so check out the website FAQs if interested. I promise you that you won't regret looking at least. 

Happy to answer any questions you may have. 

 

As someone who works in IT and has a basic grasp of blockchain/bitcoin, I have to say that I can't make head nor tail of that Fegtoken website

Is there not a basic explainer anywhere? Some actual real world examples of how it works maybe?