Jump to content

Women’s football


kevinhectoring

Recommended Posts

If anyone is in doubt about the growing popularity of the women’s game, over 40,000 watched the women’s FA cup final in 2019, the super league averaged around fans a match 4,000 in the pre covid season, which is just about on par with league 2. In fact, Tottenham who had the highest average attendance had a higher average than around half of men’s league 1 clubs. To dismiss the women’s game as a very minor sport undeserving of any more than a snippet of coverage is just plain ignorance. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, roboto said:

Some of the comments in here are the exact reasons why Women's sport needs to be pushed more into the public eye and celebrated.

The women who take part in these sports (not just football) are athletes who train just as hard as the men (probably harder) just to get noticed. And the real kicker is, they won't earn anywhere near as much money, attention or respect as male counterparts who might not be as skilful or work as hard due to the way that sport is historically seen as a male pursuit.

Those that are saying they don't like to see the women's results near the top of the BBC page, why? Can't you scroll down to the content you want easily enough? The BBC has been investing more in the WSL and of course will put stories concerning that league near the top so it can create an engaged audience and improve it's coverage and programming around it.

Those that are saying that women shouldn't play "men's" sports, why? We're all humans that may or may not enjoy being physically active or being engaged in a team of peers with a love for a certain sport. Your gender shouldn't be a reason you can't do something. Why can't women play sports? Do you see them as inferior to men in other aspects of life? It beggars belief that people can hold this point of view in this day and age.

 

I'm sure I can go on and pick out more awful things already written in this thread - sexism, discussing women footballers based on their attractiveness, women encroaching on the men's game... but I haven't got the time or patience to debunk it all.

Let me sign off my thoughts on this with a recent example in MMA. Dana White famously said years ago that women would never fight in the UFC, he thought that MMA was a male only sport and no place for women. Then some other organisations opened up allowing women to fight, and then Ronda Rousey happened. She came to the UFC and became one of the most popular (male or female) fighters around. She was the box office main eventer. Dana White changed his views on Women's MMA after that and they have equal billing in UFC now and there are various women's headliners throughout the year at no detriment to the sport. In fact the sport is better for their inclusion. Last year, the best fight was between 2 women (Joanna Jedrzejczyk vs Weili Zhang). The women train hard, hone their craft and want to win as much as the men do and have created more equality with their hard work, but also with the organisation of their sport respecting them and providing the platform. Football can learn a lot from this. Dana was wrong, he's admitted it and now the sport has benefitted from inclusion.

This post is very good and it also supports my views which are different and are more in line with some of the earlier posts.

Your MMA/UFC example is a really good case in point for my argument.

My argument is if something is there on merit.

I believe in Economics, if the demand is there then supply it. There is no doubt the male and female contests on UFC are equally exciting - and I watched that particulary fight it was unbeliveable and Ronda is up there on a mixed gender world list for pound for pound fighters. 

What I find slightly annoying is BBC and SKY pushing the supply trying to create the demand. 

The other thing I find annoying is that I get Fooled by SKY News so often - when the ticker along the bottom say Arsenal beat Chelsea 4-0, and I think I thought Chelsea were playing ...... today - next tidbit - Goals from Sarah, Jessica, Claire and Laura

And I am like aha fooled again.

 

As for the punditry - I am sure the BBC insist on having a female on for most games, but i did see some womens football the other day and there were no male pundits

I am all for equality with a capital equal

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Dethorn said:

This post is very good and it also supports my views which are different and are more in line with some of the earlier posts.

Your MMA/UFC example is a really good case in point for my argument.

My argument is if something is there on merit.

I believe in Economics, if the demand is there then supply it. There is no doubt the male and female contests on UFC are equally exciting - and I watched that particulary fight it was unbeliveable and Ronda is up there on a mixed gender world list for pound for pound fighters. 

What I find slightly annoying is BBC and SKY pushing the supply trying to create the demand. 

The other thing I find annoying is that I get Fooled by SKY News so often - when the ticker along the bottom say Arsenal beat Chelsea 4-0, and I think I thought Chelsea were playing ...... today - next tidbit - Goals from Sarah, Jessica, Claire and Laura

And I am like aha fooled again.

 

As for the punditry - I am sure the BBC insist on having a female on for most games, but i did see some womens football the other day and there were no male pundits

I am all for equality with a capital equal

 

That sounds like a “not all men” or “all lives matter” kind of view. I’m willing to read and listen and understand your viewpoint, but how do you decide what is there on merit?

Are women boxers or MMA fighters on equal billing because they work harder than female footballers or cyclists? No, all top professionals work hard to be the best they can be, it’s the authorities that control the sport (FIFA, UCI in cycling, the FA for WSL) that haven’t done enough to support women participating in that sport.

So, for me, the blame isn’t with the media pushing women’s sport. They’re doing their part to try and rectify the situation. The problem isn’t with its lack of popularity, it’s already been mentioned that women’s sports have a massively growing audience that surpasses some professional men’s levels of popularity. The problem isn’t necessarily with people’s views on women’s sports. The problem is with the authorities and their poor handling of women’s participation in their sports.

I don’t think I’ve ever been disappointed or mislead by a score line or match report on a website. Maybe people need to think before they click on an article ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

If anyone is in doubt about the growing popularity of the women’s game, over 40,000 watched the women’s FA cup final in 2019, the super league averaged around fans a match 4,000 in the pre covid season, which is just about on par with league 2. In fact, Tottenham who had the highest average attendance had a higher average than around half of men’s league 1 clubs. To dismiss the women’s game as a very minor sport undeserving of any more than a snippet of coverage is just plain ignorance. 

So same amount of coverage as league 1 or 2 should do

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, roboto said:

That sounds like a “not all men” or “all lives matter” kind of view. I’m willing to read and listen and understand your viewpoint, but how do you decide what is there on merit?

Are women boxers or MMA fighters on equal billing because they work harder than female footballers or cyclists? No, all top professionals work hard to be the best they can be, it’s the authorities that control the sport (FIFA, UCI in cycling, the FA for WSL) that haven’t done enough to support women participating in that sport.

 

For merit - I think demand

If the demand is there for it to be watched then the programmes should be scheduled as per the other post quoting attendances around the league 1/2 level then I would say equal coverage between those two things.

In my opinion the UFC/MMA has achieved what it has because it is very entertaining and has created its own demand

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Dethorn said:

For merit - I think demand

If the demand is there for it to be watched then the programmes should be scheduled as per the other post quoting attendances around the league 1/2 level then I would say equal coverage between those two things.

In my opinion the UFC/MMA has achieved what it has because it is very entertaining and has created its own demand

 

Ok, so it’s hard to judge MMA/boxing demand against football demand.

Women’s MMA and boxing was put on the same card as men’s events so the crowd was there and therefore the women’s matches were put in front of those who might not have paid to watch an all women’s event. This has helped increase the popularity and demand for more women’s matches in UFC etc.

Its not really possible to put on 2 football matches simultaneously in front of the same crowd (due to the length of a match etc.) therefore the best way to increase visibility is for more coverage on TV and in the media. The sports need a different approach, but we need to learn from sports that have successfully integrated women’s sports.

To counter the league 1/2 level attendances. How many people visit youth/reserve games? Yet the top level youth players will earn more than a professional WSL player who plays in front of larger crowds.

Its an important and healthy discussion and I hope some of these posts from both sides helps people in the sport understand how they can do better to build the women’s side of the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Dethorn said:

So same amount of coverage as league 1 or 2 should do

Is there way more coverage of women’s football? Not sure about that. I do see a bit about the women’s champions league etc but that’s to be expected. Always lots of reporting on league 1 and 2. If you’re talking about TV coverage, that’s a different ball game with rights etc 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, roboto said:

Ok, so it’s hard to judge MMA/boxing demand against football demand.

Women’s MMA and boxing was put on the same card as men’s events so the crowd was there and therefore the women’s matches were put in front of those who might not have paid to watch an all women’s event. This has helped increase the popularity and demand for more women’s matches in UFC etc.

Its not really possible to put on 2 football matches simultaneously in front of the same crowd (due to the length of a match etc.) therefore the best way to increase visibility is for more coverage on TV and in the media. The sports need a different approach, but we need to learn from sports that have successfully integrated women’s sports.

To counter the league 1/2 level attendances. How many people visit youth/reserve games? Yet the top level youth players will earn more than a professional WSL player who plays in front of larger crowds.

Its an important and healthy discussion and I hope some of these posts from both sides helps people in the sport understand how they can do better to build the women’s side of the game.

good point on the creation of demand within UFC, by having women and men on the same card in the first place.

and MMA demand versus football demand is hard to judge - certainly if it is 2am on Sunday morning I definitely favour UFC over MLS

There is a whole other argument along side this though and that is the channels

My wife seems to blame me if sport is on BBC and ITV and moving 'her' programs lol

So BT using UFC as a bit of a flagship at 2am on a Sunday - versus BBC cancelling Antiques Roadshow for an FA Cup game - male or female - is a major dilution of my economics argument.

Maybe BBC should have a dedicated sport channel or give up on sport, leave it to SKY and BT

maybe one of SKY's many sports channels should be a womens football channel 

meaning freedom of choice for all

dunno just mulling it over

My own schedule is I watch

Derby and England FC

Gloucester and England RFU (plus any other RFU game)

UFC

F1 qualifying/full race/ Teds notebook

So guess I am a bit annoyed that there is no room in my schedule for me to watch anything else ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Dethorn said:

good point on the creation of demand within UFC, by having women and men on the same card in the first place.

and MMA demand versus football demand is hard to judge - certainly if it is 2am on Sunday morning I definitely favour UFC over MLS

There is a whole other argument along side this though and that is the channels

My wife seems to blame me if sport is on BBC and ITV and moving 'her' programs lol

So BT using UFC as a bit of a flagship at 2am on a Sunday - versus BBC cancelling Antiques Roadshow for an FA Cup game - male or female - is a major dilution of my economics argument.

Maybe BBC should have a dedicated sport channel or give up on sport, leave it to SKY and BT

maybe one of SKY's many sports channels should be a womens football channel 

meaning freedom of choice for all

dunno just mulling it over

My own schedule is I watch

Derby and England FC

Gloucester and England RFU (plus any other RFU game)

UFC

F1 qualifying/full race/ Teds notebook

So guess I am a bit annoyed that there is no room in my schedule for me to watch anything else ?

My wife has given up asking me to change the channel if there's sport on TV ?

UFC is on prime time on ESPN in the US, think it's also been on ABC and Fox too which have sports channels, but they had shows on the main channels too. Plus UFC has Fight Pass as a worldwide subscription app. The way that they have gone about their media presence is impressive.

BBC do have a dedicated Sports channel "BBC Sport" it's on the red button or on apps on Smart TVs and viewable via the BBC website. It has lots of different sports coverage and some live stuff too every now and again. However, as an old industry heavyweight, many of the BBC viewers still just watch BBC 1 and 2 and won't realise there's a lot more out there through things like iPlayer and BBC Sounds.

If Sky were serious about supporting women's football they would bid for it and win. The fact that BBC and BT have the WSL rights means that Sky aren't really getting behind the women's game like they have with other sports.

I reckon as we go on, more apps will take over the regular channel based businesses and those sports savvy enough to embrace the latest media will benefit greatly from it.

You do have a full schedule of viewing. I am similar but swap the rugby for cycling (which is literally hours!!!) and I like to stick on random sports channels if there's nothing else on the TV.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Must confess to my finger hovering over the comment button for a while, not sure whether to go there or not.  Don't get involved in politics is my general motto and this feels a bit like that.  But I thought I'd comment only because there's a scary number of pretty archaic views IMO.  For transparency: Do I think women's football is as good as men's? No.  Do I watch it? Sometimes.  Do I enjoy it? Again, sometimes, especially at the top (international) level.  Women's football has come a long way over the past decade.  It's become steadily more professional, standards, fitness and ability have increased drastically.  Is it yet on a par with the men's game. No in my view.  Does that mean we shouldn't support it, encourage it, or watch it - of course not.  It'll only improve with all those things. 

I agree with the principle of some comments around pushing the game, especially the BBC but that's about money invested and supply/demand.  We all have the choice to watch it, or scroll passed.  In the same way many employers (most recently the Met Police) are focusing on recruitment from women and BAME applicants, the fact there is suddenly an increase of female and BAME pundits is undeniably a reaction to a number of cultural issues prevalent over the last couple or more years, but that doesn't mean they're no good at what they do.  Alex Scott has been mentioned here already, and for good reason.  Whether or not you think she was a good footballer is kind of irrelevant as it's clear to me she knows the game, has some great insights and always brings a positive smile to commentary.  I can't say that about a number of the more established males pundits. 

I've seen a few WSL games and these are largely covered by all female pundits so it's not surprising comments are made about a possible imbalance as this doesn't feel consistent at face value.

As a golfer, I remember the likes of Laura Davis starting to make headway into a male dominated sport.  Look where women's golf is now.  Yes, they're not as physically strong but I love to watch them play as I learn more watching their technique than I do with the men.  It'll be fascinating to see where the women's game is in 10 years, and look back at this thread. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

If anyone is in doubt about the growing popularity of the women’s game, over 40,000 watched the women’s FA cup final in 2019, the super league averaged around fans a match 4,000 in the pre covid season, which is just about on par with league 2. In fact, Tottenham who had the highest average attendance had a higher average than around half of men’s league 1 clubs. To dismiss the women’s game as a very minor sport undeserving of any more than a snippet of coverage is just plain ignorance. 

We’ll see how much turn up when Spurs ladies charge £40+ a ticket. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, roboto said:

My wife has given up asking me to change the channel if there's sport on TV ?

UFC is on prime time on ESPN in the US, think it's also been on ABC and Fox too which have sports channels, but they had shows on the main channels too. Plus UFC has Fight Pass as a worldwide subscription app. The way that they have gone about their media presence is impressive.

BBC do have a dedicated Sports channel "BBC Sport" it's on the red button or on apps on Smart TVs and viewable via the BBC website. It has lots of different sports coverage and some live stuff too every now and again. However, as an old industry heavyweight, many of the BBC viewers still just watch BBC 1 and 2 and won't realise there's a lot more out there through things like iPlayer and BBC Sounds.

If Sky were serious about supporting women's football they would bid for it and win. The fact that BBC and BT have the WSL rights means that Sky aren't really getting behind the women's game like they have with other sports.

I reckon as we go on, more apps will take over the regular channel based businesses and those sports savvy enough to embrace the latest media will benefit greatly from it.

You do have a full schedule of viewing. I am similar but swap the rugby for cycling (which is literally hours!!!) and I like to stick on random sports channels if there's nothing else on the TV.

Can we swap?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, MrPlinkett said:

Same could be said for women's tennis. The Williams sisters couldn't get close to competing with a player ranked 200 plus in the world.

Yet women's tennis is very popular. 

 

Thats part of my issue with it though. Watching woman's tennis or KT Taylor box is entertaining. I dont find womans football entertaining. Its just not as gripping. Standard in my opinion is poor, too slow and watching teams in a world cup get turned over by 12 goals isn't competitive 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

What do the likes of @angieram, @CBRammette, etc, think?

In regard to both the sport and this thread?

I am generally really bored by women's football and dont watch it but I am odd and rarely just watch a random game anyway for the sake of it. I have to be bothered and want a team to win. Having said that I think the women's game is very skillful and great not to have as much gamesmanship but I personally just find it "meh" which may just be atmosphere, etc. I also dont like female (sorry love Friday Night Dinner) commentators when watching matches.  I dont like watching any rugby - hate it all. Cricket same as football - ie dont like watching women's matches.  Love watching all of athletics, gymnastics, rowing, cycling, swimming etc and like mens/womens the same although sometimes there are advantages to watching men's! So no idea why I just dont like women's football. Anyway this thread is would be expected for this topic but I'm not a particularly sensitive sole!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 26/05/2021 at 13:53, roboto said:

My wife has given up asking me to change the channel if there's sport on TV ?

UFC is on prime time on ESPN in the US, think it's also been on ABC and Fox too which have sports channels, but they had shows on the main channels too. Plus UFC has Fight Pass as a worldwide subscription app. The way that they have gone about their media presence is impressive.

BBC do have a dedicated Sports channel "BBC Sport" it's on the red button or on apps on Smart TVs and viewable via the BBC website. It has lots of different sports coverage and some live stuff too every now and again. However, as an old industry heavyweight, many of the BBC viewers still just watch BBC 1 and 2 and won't realise there's a lot more out there through things like iPlayer and BBC Sounds.

If Sky were serious about supporting women's football they would bid for it and win. The fact that BBC and BT have the WSL rights means that Sky aren't really getting behind the women's game like they have with other sports.

I reckon as we go on, more apps will take over the regular channel based businesses and those sports savvy enough to embrace the latest media will benefit greatly from it.

You do have a full schedule of viewing. I am similar but swap the rugby for cycling (which is literally hours!!!) and I like to stick on random sports channels if there's nothing else on the TV.

I love the cycling at the olympics but cannot get behind the tour de france and things that go on for days and days

I love the tactics in the I guess about 100 mile race takes several hours and remember in particular the women who crashed in Rio 2016 - I thought she might have been dead - good to learn whe was back up and running (cycling) in a couple of weeks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account.

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...