Women’s football

[FindernRam]

Terrible standard. The way the BBC in particular keep plugging it is really irritating.

Football, Rugby, Cricket were invented by men and developed around male physical attributes. Instead of trying to muscle in (pun intended) women should invent their own team sports.

[Cisse]

5 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

Terrible standard. The way the BBC in particular keep plugging it is really irritating.

Football, Rugby, Cricket were invented by men and developed around male physical attributes. Instead of trying to muscle in (pun intended) women should invent their own team sports.

Roller Derby?

[BaaLocks]

It's not the women's fault at all - they are trying to play the game to the best of their ability. I don't even say it's the club's fault - I totally understand why Barcelona, Chelsea and Derby have a women's team, great for the game. But I do think it's the media's fault - and mainly the Beebs. They can't afford the men's game any more so think they can buy cheap deals with the WSL and palm it off on us as somehow top level sport.

As for presenters etc. some of them are excellent (e.g. Alex Scott) and some are shocking (Karen Carney). Twas ever thus, anyone thinks any female or BAME presenter is worse than Steve Claridge needs to give their head a wobble.

[roboto]

Some of the comments in here are the exact reasons why Women's sport needs to be pushed more into the public eye and celebrated.

The women who take part in these sports (not just football) are athletes who train just as hard as the men (probably harder) just to get noticed. And the real kicker is, they won't earn anywhere near as much money, attention or respect as male counterparts who might not be as skilful or work as hard due to the way that sport is historically seen as a male pursuit.

Those that are saying they don't like to see the women's results near the top of the BBC page, why? Can't you scroll down to the content you want easily enough? The BBC has been investing more in the WSL and of course will put stories concerning that league near the top so it can create an engaged audience and improve it's coverage and programming around it.

Those that are saying that women shouldn't play "men's" sports, why? We're all humans that may or may not enjoy being physically active or being engaged in a team of peers with a love for a certain sport. Your gender shouldn't be a reason you can't do something. Why can't women play sports? Do you see them as inferior to men in other aspects of life? It beggars belief that people can hold this point of view in this day and age.

 

I'm sure I can go on and pick out more awful things already written in this thread - sexism, discussing women footballers based on their attractiveness, women encroaching on the men's game... but I haven't got the time or patience to debunk it all.

Let me sign off my thoughts on this with a recent example in MMA. Dana White famously said years ago that women would never fight in the UFC, he thought that MMA was a male only sport and no place for women. Then some other organisations opened up allowing women to fight, and then Ronda Rousey happened. She came to the UFC and became one of the most popular (male or female) fighters around. She was the box office main eventer. Dana White changed his views on Women's MMA after that and they have equal billing in UFC now and there are various women's headliners throughout the year at no detriment to the sport. In fact the sport is better for their inclusion. Last year, the best fight was between 2 women (Joanna Jedrzejczyk vs Weili Zhang). The women train hard, hone their craft and want to win as much as the men do and have created more equality with their hard work, but also with the organisation of their sport respecting them and providing the platform. Football can learn a lot from this. Dana was wrong, he's admitted it and now the sport has benefitted from inclusion.

[MrPlinkett]

1 hour ago, G-Ram said:

The standard is terrible. The USA national team are supposed to be the best in the world got beat in a friendly by Dalla under 15s boys. Not even like they're an elite  academy 

Same could be said for women's tennis. The Williams sisters couldn't get close to competing with a player ranked 200 plus in the world.

Yet women's tennis is very popular. 

 

[archram]

3 hours ago, i-Ram said:

I wouldn’t dream of saying to my wife let me have a go at that ironing, washing-up or hoovering, so personally I think it a bloody nerve that women seem to be muscling in on the playing of, and commentating on, football.

 

Death wish?

[BriggRam]

Woman should have there own dedicated sports channel, nothing worse than seeing eg Liverpool 2-2 Man U then racking your brains for a minute before realising it's the woman ?

[rammieib]

Let Supply and Demand drive the media coverage it gets.

I don't know it when we 'force' things due to political correctness.

[Alty_Ram]

I'm not a big watcher of the womens game to be honest but I have watched a fair few England matches and a few club games. It seems to me that there are differences to the male game, some of which are largely matter of physics. For example a 6ft 4in male goalkeeper is really not that unusual. That changes the dynamic a bit as there is a better chance of lobbing a female keeper who is typically several inches shorter. It's not just the difference in head height either, it is the proportional extra arm length that comes with being taller too, meaning that with a womens keeper there is typically a lot less keeper to beat so it seems to me that from games I've watched that you see greater success rates of more speculative ranged shooting.

Anyway, differences in the game aside, I'm not sure that I really understand the resistance to female pundits and commentators. We have had some male pundits/commentators with bags of footballing career experience who simply lack the skills to articulate their point. Equally, some of the best known and loved male commentators down the years like John Motson were not footballers but he has years of experience watching and commentating on the game at varying levels. It's not their 'maleness' that makes them good or bad.

One key thing for me is that a commentator role is slightly different to pundit in that it is partly just describing what you see and partly just capturing the essence and drama of the moment and putting on a performance. A pundit however will be put on the spot to provide an analytical assessment of why a team just threw away a 2 goal lead in a game that seemed won. That's why I guess you see a far higher proportion of ex players as pundits because they've been there and done that and can provide insight into how a game can swing and turn on a moment.

I've never played football at anything other than the most basic of amateur levels but I can remember frustration as a keeper as the defence in front of me started creeping back deeper and deeper to defend a lead and suddenly I'm having to gather crosses through a crowd of players or anticipate a shot through a forest of legs. I'm not sure that I would have even that limited insight if I hadn't played at all but in my own head it does give me at least some level of insight. Quite why then that people should think Alex Scott who played 140 games for her country is not qualified or up to the task is a little baffling. If you just don't think she's any good then that's different and all fine, we all have an opinion on football related matters and it's a game that creates strong opinions.

[BaaLocks]

1 hour ago, roboto said:

Some of the comments in here are the exact reasons why Women's sport needs to be pushed more into the public eye and celebrated.

Good post and some very strong comments - particularly around UFC (you could say the same on boxing and the likes of Katie Taylor and Clarissa Shields are a joy to watch - technically as well as heart). I can't say I feel too comfortable when we get into 'pushing' anything - you could say the same thing about opera, should we have that promoted because people don't follow in the way that some might like? What about rugby league - men's - that isn't a truly national sport so should we be pushing that? Archery? Diving? Table tennis?

All your points are well made but when we start 'pushing' something I'm always conscious there is an agenda behind it. As I've said, I think this one is the Beeb trying to rustle up interest in minority sports because they simply can't keep up with the likes of Sky and Amazon on the flagship ones. 

I agree on your point on some of the comments, obviously many of them are meant in jest but substitute 'woman' for 'African American' in some of them and this thread wouldn't have stayed up for ten minutes (no criticism of the mods on that btw).

[i-Ram]

50 minutes ago, archram said:

Death wish?

[roboto]

1 minute ago, BaaLocks said:

Good post and some very strong comments - particularly around UFC (you could say the same on boxing and the likes of Katie Taylor and Clarissa Shields are a joy to watch - technically as well as heart). I can't say I feel too comfortable when we get into 'pushing' anything - you could say the same thing about opera, should we have that promoted because people don't follow in the way that some might like? What about rugby league - men's - that isn't a truly national sport so should we be pushing that? Archery? Diving? Table tennis?

All your points are well made but when we start 'pushing' something I'm always conscious there is an agenda behind it. As I've said, I think this one is the Beeb trying to rustle up interest in minority sports because they simply can't keep up with the likes of Sky and Amazon on the flagship ones. 

I agree on your point on some of the comments, obviously many of them are meant in jest but substitute 'woman' for 'African American' in some of them and this thread wouldn't have stayed up for ten minutes (no criticism of the mods on that btw).

When I say push, I don’t mean in the sense that you can’t get away from it, but more in the fact that the sport deserves to be promoted better. This can be via coverage, sponsorship, fan interaction etc.

Womens football is one of the sports, along with pro cycling, that still has a disproportionate gap between the genders in terms of prize money, player salary, sponsorship and TV coverage. There is room for improvement here and the sport needs to push in these areas to level up the difference. The BBC are trying to do this with the WSL, we shouldn’t be against it as it makes little difference to their coverage of the men’s game.

There were some comments I also just noticed about the US women’s team losing to a boys team and how the Williams sisters wouldn’t beat a top 200 male player. I don’t think we should confuse women’s sports with cross gender competition, the physical difference makes that a pointless argument and not the reason for this thread.

[VulcanRam]

1 hour ago, roboto said:

Some of the comments in here are the exact reasons why Women's sport needs to be pushed more into the public eye and celebrated.

The women who take part in these sports (not just football) are athletes who train just as hard as the men (probably harder) just to get noticed. And the real kicker is, they won't earn anywhere near as much money, attention or respect as male counterparts who might not be as skilful or work as hard due to the way that sport is historically seen as a male pursuit.

Those that are saying they don't like to see the women's results near the top of the BBC page, why? Can't you scroll down to the content you want easily enough? The BBC has been investing more in the WSL and of course will put stories concerning that league near the top so it can create an engaged audience and improve it's coverage and programming around it.

Those that are saying that women shouldn't play "men's" sports, why? We're all humans that may or may not enjoy being physically active or being engaged in a team of peers with a love for a certain sport. Your gender shouldn't be a reason you can't do something. Why can't women play sports? Do you see them as inferior to men in other aspects of life? It beggars belief that people can hold this point of view in this day and age.

 

I'm sure I can go on and pick out more awful things already written in this thread - sexism, discussing women footballers based on their attractiveness, women encroaching on the men's game... but I haven't got the time or patience to debunk it all.

Let me sign off my thoughts on this with a recent example in MMA. Dana White famously said years ago that women would never fight in the UFC, he thought that MMA was a male only sport and no place for women. Then some other organisations opened up allowing women to fight, and then Ronda Rousey happened. She came to the UFC and became one of the most popular (male or female) fighters around. She was the box office main eventer. Dana White changed his views on Women's MMA after that and they have equal billing in UFC now and there are various women's headliners throughout the year at no detriment to the sport. In fact the sport is better for their inclusion. Last year, the best fight was between 2 women (Joanna Jedrzejczyk vs Weili Zhang). The women train hard, hone their craft and want to win as much as the men do and have created more equality with their hard work, but also with the organisation of their sport respecting them and providing the platform. Football can learn a lot from this. Dana was wrong, he's admitted it and now the sport has benefitted from inclusion.

Thank you. A decent post on among some of the knuckle dragging comments. 

DCFC Women have made great strides in the last three years and are close to getting into the Championship, which is part of the professional game. They have professionalised the setup with a proper Board of Directors, their youth setup is proving an excellent opportunity for girls to play and across the club are doing their best to build, grow and improve. 

The top end of the club (Mel Morris and Stephen Pearce) have helped enormously with funding and access to facilities, bringing the Women's Club closer into alignment with the men's. 

Who knows, in a couple of years we might have a Championship team at DCFC. And it might not be the men. 

 

 

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

2 hours ago, FindernRam said:

Terrible standard. The way the BBC in particular keep plugging it is really irritating.

Football, Rugby, Cricket were invented by men and developed around male physical attributes. Instead of trying to muscle in (pun intended) women should invent their own team sports.

So because men invented these sports they can’t be played by women? Some of these were invented by white men, does that mean other races can’t play? Also in terms of standard why are you or others comparing the standard to men’s ? The 100m women times are well over a second off men’s so what? Top female tennis players would lose to top men players so what? 
Don’t see an issue with BBC plugging it. More and more people watch it and more and more women are playing it. People need to get used to it. 

[Tamworthram]

3 hours ago, G-Ram said:

The standard is terrible. The USA national team are supposed to be the best in the world got beat in a friendly by Dalla under 15s boys. Not even like they're an elite  academy 

According to CBS soccer:

Of course, this match against the academy team was very informal and should not be a major cause for alarm. The U.S. surely wasn’t going all out, with the main goal being to get some minutes on the pitch, build chemistry when it comes to moving the ball around, improve defensive shape and get ready for Russia.

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

3 hours ago, G-Ram said:

The standard is terrible. The USA national team are supposed to be the best in the world got beat in a friendly by Dalla under 15s boys. Not even like they're an elite  academy 

I’m pretty sure a top female boxer would also get beaten by some amateur men and top female sprinters may even get beaten by some junior men. So what? Standard is improving but there are of course genetic differences. Also, regarding goalkeepers, most females are not anywhere near 6 foot tall so of course the standard will be weaker. Goals are probably too big. 

[Tamworthram]

2 hours ago, FindernRam said:

Terrible standard. The way the BBC in particular keep plugging it is really irritating.

Football, Rugby, Cricket were invented by men and developed around male physical attributes. Instead of trying to muscle in (pun intended) women should invent their own team sports.

Oh dear. 
 

It’s our game. Go and find your own. ?

Edited May 26, 2021 by Tamworthram

[Carnero]

I quite enjoy the women's football, especially the England games at major tournaments, technically pretty good and less of the diving/cheating/intimidation of refs/constant spitting etc that's become so prevalent in the men's game.

I have always thought though that the product could be improved by shortening the pitches a little and making the goals a little smaller to better account for the natural athletic differences between women and men. I know it's not feasible though given the games have to be played at the same stadiums as the men use.

[maxjam]

9 hours ago, one_chop said:

It doesn't interest me in the slightest. How BBC Sport put the women's results at the top of the page I'll never know. 

I don't object to it in any way whatsoever, however the way women are chosen over men to be pundits and commentators just stinks of political correctness. 

Each to their own but not for me.

I have watched a few highlights of womens football and even tried to watch some of the last World Cup but tbh find it slow, boring and have never actually made it through an entire match.  As you say, it doesn't interest me in the slightest.  Each to their own but its not for me.

The (minor) problem I increasingly have however is the BBC and Sky posting ambiguous tweets or article titles.  I reckon half the clicks they get are from people thinking they are clicking on a mens football article and not a womens football article - I'm forever doing it lol.

[IronRam 140.6]

4 hours ago, MrPlinkett said:

I have no idea the ratio of men to women who commentate or do pundit work but willing to bet it's still heavily male dominated. 

I know I find Alex Scott refreshing,  I'd listen to her talk every day over some of the Male pundits, never seems to be the bias shown by many of the Male pundits to their old clubs. 

Also Laura Woods is excellent on talksport.

 

Both of whom I'd gladly spend the day listening to their flatulence via a 2 way radio. 

Both a big yes from me.