Is VAR Ruining Football?

[Chris_Martin]

20 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

, it's not the technology that's the issue but the timing.

 

but it's physically impossible for VAR to know that quickly weather or not it's a goal. Even if you put a time limit on it, say 30 seconds, what happens if it hasn't reached a clear decision by then?? So therefore in actual fact it is the technology not the timing that's the issue.

[BaaLocks]

Just now, Chris_Martin said:

but it's physically impossible for VAR to know that quickly weather or not it's a goal. Even if you put a time limit on it, say 30 seconds, what happens if it hasn't reached a clear decision by then?? So therefore in actual fact it is the technology not the timing that's the issue.

It's equally impossible for a human to also, 1966 World Cup Final for example. I'm not sure I agree that technology can't come to a pretty instant analysis - they seem to be able to do that with the ball crossing the line, it's all but instantaneous, not open to debate. So they just need to get the technology that works at the same rate as that and fans would accept that (I think) as being fair. Currently, that is not the case and it is why VAR is rightly criticized as it is.

[BaaLocks]

9 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

but there wasn't VAR back then so why would you wait for the goal to be awarded. ?

Because we had referees that disallowed goals before VAR - somehow in all this discussion it seems that point has been forgotten.

The OP stated "Putting the ball in the net, celebrating and knowing it's a goal all in the same moment is the best part of football". It isn't and it never has been.

[Chris_Martin]

1 minute ago, BaaLocks said:

It's equally impossible for a human to also, 1966 World Cup Final for example. I'm not sure I agree that technology can't come to a pretty instant analysis - they seem to be able to do that with the ball crossing the line, it's all but instantaneous, not open to debate. So they just need to get the technology that works at the same rate as that and fans would accept that (I think) as being fair. Currently, that is not the case and it is why VAR is rightly criticized as it is.

goal line technology is a different piece of technology to VAR though. I am all in favour of goal line tech as it is clear yes or no and is almost an instant decision as well which is perfect. it relies on one fixed line though and only has to look at the ball which is why it is so quick. VAR has no fixed lines and has to look at many different points. I don't see how you can get VAR to that level as there is so much more detail needed. 

For me, the thought of scoring a goal and then having to be told if it is a goal or not just ruins football, no matter how fast the decision can be made. Goal line decisions are different because they rarely happen and it is 100% goal or no goal. Offside calls happen all the time and are not 100% yes or no, so why not just let the linesman make the instant decisions they weren't 100% correct either. 

[Chris_Martin]

14 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

Because we had referees that disallowed goals before VAR - somehow in all this discussion it seems that point has been forgotten.

yes but they didn't take 30+ seconds to disallow them did they. It was usually an instant decision from the ref, or at most a quick ask to the linesman. 

[Chris_Martin]

18 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

 

 "Putting the ball in the net, celebrating and knowing it's a goal all in the same moment is the best part of football". It isn't and it never has been.

really???

[BaaLocks]

8 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

really???

Really!

[DCFC Kicks]

28 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

Because we had referees that disallowed goals before VAR - somehow in all this discussion it seems that point has been forgotten.

The OP stated "Putting the ball in the net, celebrating and knowing it's a goal all in the same moment is the best part of football". It isn't and it never has been.

What is then?

[Chris_Martin]

2 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

Really!

what then?

[BaaLocks]

7 minutes ago, DCFClks said:

What is then?

The fact that a linesman was always able to flag, a ref was always able to consult their watch, the fact that the linesman and ref were always able to take time to discuss a decision before awarding it. For penalties, for offsides, for last gasp goals. Not for every goal, just like VAR doesn't apply for every goal.

But the original suggestion that now VAR puts a doubt behind every goal whereas before you knew it was a goal and that was the best part of football is simply not true. 

[Spanish]

27 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

yes but they didn't take 30+ seconds to disallow them did they. It was usually an instant decision from the ref, or at most a quick ask to the linesman. 

do you remember those moments when the ref was persuaded to go over to the linesman to discuss whether it should be alowed or not, such high drama

[DCFC Kicks]

2 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

The fact that a linesman was always able to flag, a ref was always able to consult their watch, the fact that the linesman and ref were always able to take time to discuss a decision before awarding it. For penalties, for offsides, for last gasp goals. Not for every goal, just like VAR doesn't apply for every goal.

But the original suggestion that now VAR puts a doubt behind every goal whereas before you knew it was a goal and that was the best part of football is simply not true. 

But with those pre-VAR examples, they would mostly happen almost simultaneously with the goal going in and usually the discussions would take place before the goal/penalty has actually been given. You say VAR doesn't apply for every goal, but it's the fact that it COULD apply for every goal. I don't particularly have an issue with VAR being used on penalty decisions. You mentioned in a previous reply that we agree that it's the time frame VAR uses that's the issue, which is technically true, but there's the fact that it's literally impossible for VAR to be used simultaneously as the goal goes in, which is what I said I'd accept.

I was watching Alisson's goal for Liverpool the other day, and as I see the ball go in I'm certain it's a fair goal, but in the back of my mind I know there's always a chance it won't be given, which made it a lot less enjoyable. Could you imagine if that had been VAR'd?

 

[DCFC Kicks]

23 minutes ago, Spanish said:

do you remember those moments when the ref was persuaded to go over to the linesman to discuss whether it should be alowed or not, such high drama

They were high drama because of the rareness of them, it was a novelty. Plus the goal wouldn't actually be given before the discussion. VAR allows and encourages you to believe it's a goal even when it might not be. 

[Chris_Martin]

36 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

The fact that a linesman was always able to flag, a ref was always able to consult their watch, the fact that the linesman and ref were always able to take time to discuss a decision before awarding it. For penalties, for offsides, for last gasp goals. Not for every goal, just like VAR doesn't apply for every goal.

But the original suggestion that now VAR puts a doubt behind every goal whereas before you knew it was a goal and that was the best part of football is simply not true. 

it does actually

[Spanish]

2 minutes ago, DCFClks said:

They were high drama because of the rareness of them, it was a novelty. Plus the goal wouldn't actually be given before the discussion. VAR allows and encourages you to believe it's a goal even when it might not be. 

of course it was given the ref turning away after blowing for the goal the defenders chasing after him.  You're trying to make your point but it doesn't seem like a rarity to me at least, but I'm 62 and therefore have only seen a few thousand games

[BaaLocks]

This never happened then? It was all instantaneous? It wasn't - put the rose tinted glasses away.

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by BaaLocks

[DCFC Kicks]

1 minute ago, Spanish said:

of course it was given the ref turning away after blowing for the goal the defenders chasing after him.  You're trying to make your point but it doesn't seem like a rarity to me at least, but I'm 62 and therefore have only seen a few thousand games

I can't believe those instances were regular enough to not be considered rare. I can't remember many in recent seasons before VAR. Maybe they happened every other week in the 70's I don't know?. I know it was relatively common for Refs to disallow goals which everyone else seemed to think were fine, but to give a goal and then change there mind, that can't have been common surely? 

[DCFC Kicks]

3 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

This never happened then? It was all instantaneous? It wasn't - put the rose tinted glasses away.

 

What is the context of this? It seems rare enough by someone to warrant making a YT video of it. 

and was this a goal the Ref disallowed instantly? or one where he changed his own decision after allowing everyone to believe it was a goal?, which were the instances relative to my point.

[Chris_Martin]

10 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

This never happened then? It was all instantaneous? It wasn't - put the rose tinted glasses away.

 

I'm confused as to what this is trying to prove. 

[FindernRam]

Last night Werner was clearly clobbered from behind in the area, Ref give foul against Werner. VAR agrees. I could not believe what they did or whet they thought they saw. VAR is a joke.