Yankee Doodle Derby

[DCFC1388]

10 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Pretty sure the club said that they'd already prepared alternative accounts as a pre-empt to  being forced to do so buddy. Hopefully they have them ready to go fairly sharpish as it seems the EFL remain determined to damage our prospects in any way they can. Can see them taking months to analyse the new submission despite it being a very straightforward process. I think those who were adamant there's been no campaign waged against the club might be revising that opinion in light of the most recent disclosures and the EFL actually verbalising how 'regrettable' it is that they've been unable to relegate us. Seems assertions of paranoia were somewhat wide of the mark ?‍♂️

Surely once they're submitted any embargo in place should be removed as they're due to late accounts. They cant have us in an embargo for breaching FFP before they actually can confirm we have.

[Elwood P Dowd]

You do get the impression that Derby may not be on the EFLs Xmas card list.

Once we provide the amended accounts it would be reasonable to expect that the EFL would lift the Soft Embargo whilst they go through the accounts (remember the innocent until proven guilty test) but I don’t think that the EFL would consider that such a test would apply to them.

It would be grossly unfair for the EFL to keep the Soft Embargo in place whilst they spend 6 months going over Derby’s accounts with a fine tooth comb.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Elwood P Dowd
Spelling

[Comrade 86]

12 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

Surely once they're submitted any embargo in place should be removed as they're due to late accounts. They cant have us in an embargo for breaching FFP before they actually can confirm we have.

Yeah, this is the grey area for me. In theory, once submitted, the embargo should be lifted. Obviously, if the EFL wish to levy further charges based on what we submit, they will most certainly place us under embargo again. What I feel is quite likely to happen though, is that the embargo will remain in place until such time as the news accounts are approved, not merely submitted. The EFL statement seems to hint that this may be the case. They certainly do not feel that the £100k fine was sufficient, that much is clear and I could definitely see a scenario whereby we can't really 'go shopping' until the notoriously tricky January window. New ownership could perhaps have a bearing on this though as it seems it's very much Mel Morris they have an issue with and not the club itself. 

Wish I could offer something more upbeat mate, as I've remained steadfastly positive about the overall outcome throughout, but I do still have concerns as to how quickly our accounts will be ratified despite my belief that we are comfortably within the margins. It's really the only leverage the EFL retain and I expect them to continue to abuse their position moving forwards, least until Mel has left the club ?

[kevinhectoring]

8 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

EFL actually verbalising how 'regrettable' it is that they've been unable to relegate us.

Was hoping an impending takeover would bring an end to the EFf’s battle with us, but seems not yet the case.
I think the EFL have said they “regrettably determined that there are insufficient grounds to appeal the sanction’ (which is different to your post ). Maybe they have to say this to keep the Wycombes and Boros happy, but perhaps what you say is what they really think 
The bizarre thing is this has turned into a battle between the DC and the LAP. The DC was aware that the (accountant-less) LAP poured scorn on their initial decision and were probably as livid as they were chastened. So the DC has it seems drafted a decision that - as theEFL lawyers have advised - is difficult to appeal against. it’s a great result 

Well now we really know we’re in the championship which will help Rooney strengthen his squad 

[Comrade 86]

16 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Was hoping an impending takeover would bring an end to the EFf’s battle with us, but seems not yet the case.
I think the EFL have said they “regrettably determined that there are insufficient grounds to appeal the sanction’ (which is different to your post ). Maybe they have to say this to keep the Wycombes and Boros happy, but perhaps what you say is what they really think 

I take your point, but what is very clear is that if they could have sanctioned us further, ie. a points deduction, they would have. It was only their own legal team's advice that seems to have prevented them going again. That's kind of what I meant with my post. I do agree that the statement was also intended to bring closure onto the incessant whining from Gibson, Conway and that ducking melt Rob Couhig who seriously needs to shut his yap. Systemic cheating my fecking arse, grrrrrrr!

16 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

The bizarre thing is this has turned into a battle between the DC and the LAP. The DC was aware that the (accountant-less) LAP poured scorn on their initial decision and were probably as livid as they were chastened. So the DC has it seems drafted a decision that - as theEFL lawyers have advised - is difficult to appeal against. it’s a great result 

The LAP really had no business overturning the original DC findings. My theory is that the paltry fine imposed was intended to force the EFL's hand in that they'd have had to appeal the decision to impose further sanctions and also to make it abundantly clear that they would resist any attempt to sanction us in a way that resulted in relegation.

Obviously, we need to show we remain within the FFP thresholds, but I'm really not seeing any issue there. While I think with hindsight, we could have handled things differently, the EFL and the LAP have been made to look very foolish, though how helpful that is, I'm not sure!

16 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Well now we really know we’re in the championship which will help Rooney strengthen his squad

Can I take the 5th on this bit please mate? ?

Edited July 4, 2021 by 86 Hair Islands

[europia]

8 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

New ownership could perhaps have a bearing on this though as it seems it's very much Mel Morris they have an issue with and not the club itself. 

 

A very relevant and key point that you make. Mr Morris adopted a confrontational attitude toward the EFL. An ill advised approach which has put DCFC in a precarious situation. 

[Ramslad1992]

49 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Pretty sure the club said that they'd already prepared alternative accounts as a pre-empt to  being forced to do so buddy. Hopefully they have them ready to go fairly sharpish as it seems the EFL remain determined to damage our prospects in any way they can. Can see them taking months to analyse the new submission despite it being a very straightforward process. I think those who were adamant there's been no campaign waged against the club might be revising that opinion in light of the most recent disclosures and the EFL actually verbalising how 'regrettable' it is that they've been unable to relegate us. Seems assertions of paranoia were somewhat wide of the mark ?‍♂️

It’s very much David vs Goliath I feel... unfortunately for the EFL they are that useless, rubbish, incompetent, awful... (@Tyler DurdenAny other words from that thesaurus of yours? ?)

they are David and this time Goliath will come out on top I think. For all the Mel bashing he’s done everything he can as a fan to get us into a position to compete (ironic I know) but in his position we all would have done the same. 
 

they 100% have something against Mel at the very least if not us as a whole club...

we are Derby County... the EFL wouldn’t even exist if it wasn’t for us ? duck the EFL and come on you rams. 
 

[B4ev6is]

20 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Yeah, this is the grey area for me. In theory, once submitted, the embargo should be lifted. Obviously, if the EFL wish to levy further charges based on what we submit, they will most certainly place us under embargo again. What I feel is quite likely to happen though, is that the embargo will remain in place until such time as the news accounts are approved, not merely submitted. The EFL statement seems to hint that this may be the case. They certainly do not feel that the £100k fine was sufficient, that much is clear and I could definitely see a scenario whereby we can't really 'go shopping' until the notoriously tricky January window. New ownership could perhaps have a bearing on this though as it seems it's very much Mel Morris they have an issue with and not the club itself. 

Wish I could offer something more upbeat mate, as I've remained steadfastly positive about the overall outcome throughout, but I do still have concerns as to how quickly our accounts will be ratified despite my belief that we are comfortably within the margins. It's really the only leverage the EFL retain and I expect them to continue to abuse their position moving forwards, least until Mel has left the club ?

I tell you what I think what is going efl are under thump from gibson dont you dare lift that embargo so they cant sign any decent players.

[Comrade 86]

26 minutes ago, europia said:

A very relevant and key point that you make. Mr Morris adopted a confrontational attitude toward the EFL. An ill advised approach which has put DCFC in a precarious situation. 

But did he? I do accept some folk feel this way but to my mind, this all stems from when Mel wrote to the 72 member clubs suggesting that the EFL were not serving the best interests of their members. This, I think, has been pretty much ratified both then and subsequently as we are far from alone in the view that they are selling clubs short, at best, and willing Premier League and Sky lapdogs, at worst.

Personally, I think the manner in which the EFL have conducted themselves since has been akin to a toddler throwing a massive tantrum and certainly not befitting of any credible governing body. They treat their own membership with utter disdain and I'm not just talking about Derby here. I'd say that when you look at the constraints under which the EFL force all clubs to try and survive (not prosper!), that a challenge to their stewardship was not only understandable, but inevitable and to be commended, in truth.

Cards on the table, I ducking hate the EFL but in fairness to Mel, I never foresaw the fury and vindictiveness such a challenge would unleash either. These guys are utterly shameless and what other clubs SHOULD be thinking right now, is not, 'oh, Derby cheating again' but rather 'let's get shot of the EFL ASAP as they're a bunch of ducking clowns'! Unfortunately, they'd rather bicker over the scraps off their table and so it goes on ?‍♂️

Edited July 4, 2021 by 86 Hair Islands

[europia]

1 minute ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

But did he? I do accept some folk feel this way but to my mind, this all stems from when Mel wrote to the 72 member clubs suggesting that the EFL were not serving the best interests of the it's members. This, I think, has been pretty much ratified both then and subsequently as we are far from alone in the view that they are selling clubs short, at best, and willing Premier League lapdogs, at worst.

In essence a failed coup. Generally things don't tend to bode well for the instigators of such. 

[Ramslad1992]

1 minute ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

But did he? I do accept some folk feel this way but to my mind, this all stems from when Mel wrote to the 72 member clubs suggesting that the EFL were not serving the best interests of the it's members. This, I think, has been pretty much ratified both then and subsequently as we are far from alone in the view that they are selling clubs short, at best, and willing Premier League lapdogs, at worst.

Personally, I think the manner in which the EFL have conducted themselves since has been akin to a toddler throwing a massive tantrum and certainly not befitting of any credible governing body. They treat their own membership with utter disdain and I'm not just talking about Derby here. I'd say that when you look at the constraints under which the EFL force all clubs to try and survive (not prosper!), that a challenge to their stewardship was not only understandable, but inevitable and to be commended, in truth.

Cards on the table, I ducking hate the EFL but in fairness to Mel, I never foresaw the fury and vindictiveness such a challenge would unleash either. These guys are utterly shameless and what other clubs SHOULD be thinking right now, is not, 'oh, Derby cheating again' but rather 'let's get shot of the EFL ASAP as they're a bunch of ducking clowns'! Unfortunately, they'd rather bicker over the scraps off their table and so it goes on ?‍♂️

couldn’t have put it better if I tried. They are an embarrassment or an organisation. I thought it when they went after Bolton, I thought it when they went after Wigan, I thought it when they went after us (unlucky losers) and I’ll think it when they inevitably go after another club who were happy to see us go through it because it’s not them. 

this organisation is power hungry. They’re like that kid in school who got bullied and become a bully as an adult. 
 

[Comrade 86]

1 minute ago, europia said:

In essence a failed coup. Generally things don't tend to bode well for the instigators of such. 

A fair point mate but I like the way Emiliano Zapata summarises such choices:

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees"

Amen to that!

[RoyMac5]

9 hours ago, europia said:

In essence a failed coup. Generally things don't tend to bode well for the instigators of such. 

Why should it be a seen as a coup? The EFL is appointed by the football league member clubs isn't it? It appears to have turned itself into a Banana Republic!

[Sparkle]

10 hours ago, europia said:

A very relevant and key point that you make. Mr Morris adopted a confrontational attitude toward the EFL. An ill advised approach which has put DCFC in a precarious situation. 

Actually I don’t agree - when an organisation appears to be failing its members somebody has to take a stand and tell them and the members that they should be doing a much better job and if they choose to ignore the members don’t be surprised when you start to lose your membership.

[RadioactiveWaste]

29 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Actually I don’t agree - when an organisation appears to be failing its members somebody has to take a stand and tell them and the members that they should be doing a much better job and if they choose to ignore the members don’t be surprised when you start to lose your membership.

I certainly think Mel had quite a lot of validity in a lot of his criticism.

I do think he/DCFC didn't play the politics of the EFL well (or at all) - which is fine - but you have to then be cautious of how those politics might bite you. Having Mel's stance and also being on the edge of what's allowable is a recipe for strife.

 

[Ramslad1992]

1 hour ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I certainly think Mel had quite a lot of validity in a lot of his criticism.

I do think he/DCFC didn't play the politics of the EFL well (or at all) - which is fine - but you have to then be cautious of how those politics might bite you. Having Mel's stance and also being on the edge of what's allowable is a recipe for strife.

 

Doesn’t help when the EFL can’t even decide what is and isn’t allowable though ?‍♂️

[BucksRam]

Maybe not a great comparison, so apologies, but when I look at how the EFL has conducted itself over the last few years and in particular with Derby they remind me of FIFA, or in particular Sepp Blatter.  Someone who orchestrated things to his benefit.  For decades he abused his position and it took years for him to finally be called out, eventually being done for a "breach of rules concerning duty of loyalty, conflicts of interest and offering or accepting gifts or other benefits". I think his buddy Valcke did similar. I also think this was the tip of the iceberg and many officials go away scot-free.  Now I'm not saying the EFL are doing exactly the same, but in principle, from everything I see, they're abusing their power, they're showing zero duty of loyalty to their members and appear to be on some sort of personal crusade to destroy one of the league's member clubs, for not making absolutely clear in their accounting notes what they had done, despite what they had done having been sanctioned by the EFL themselves so in theory they should have known what they were looking at in the first place.

Mel instigated a challenge to their power by seeking to unite all 72 clubs in asking the EFL to address a view that they weren't representing their clubs in the best way.  He also challenged the money flow for TV rights, again with the view this wasn't in the best interests of the member clubs. I believe that this, more than anything else totally riled the pompous buffoons at the EFL, who, like Blatter no doubt live a great lifestyle and don't want their power challenged to the extent they've made it a personal goal to see Mel, and unfortunately Derby destroyed. The irony is Mel was probably demonstrating the values the EFL should be following, but aren't.  Love him or hate him I do believe he's always had the best interests of this club at heart.

If we can sell, meaning Mel moves off the scene, they maybe, just maybe, some status quo will be achieved and we can go back to focusing on playing football, re-building this club, making news for what we do on the pitch, not off it, and maybe one day, in the not too distant future, getting back into the PL. 

[B4ev6is]

For me mel was trying to do the right thing for efl clubs and Derby county I remember mel giving hartlepool our gates money to help them out.

I dont think efl like Derby who tried to stick upto them and there wrong doing and like even less that we back our owner mel and Derby county.

[Waffle]

Would anybody be able to provide a short summary of what we know about the potential takeover?

[hintonsboots]

1 minute ago, Waffle said:

Would anybody be able to provide a short summary of what we know about the potential takeover?

Fook all.