Cameron Cresswell

[Van der MoodHoover]

49 minutes ago, Macintosh said:

Delap, Thomas, Bogle, Whittaker and Gordon.

I was mentally thinking of the sorts of fees Birmingham got for Bellingham, or even forest back in the day. 

Bogle and Lowe will be back in the championship next season so one assumes that will limit add ons, we had to let delap go for a bag of bullseyes. 

Got decent dosh for Hughes and Hendrick (pre Mel) but just a few hundred k for each of the others not already mentioned. 

We need to sharpen up our longer term planning imo as to what we want from the academy. 

[Ghost of Clough]

23 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

I was mentally thinking of the sorts of fees Birmingham got for Bellingham, or even forest back in the day. 

Bogle and Lowe will be back in the championship next season so one assumes that will limit add ons, we had to let delap go for a bag of bullseyes. 

Got decent dosh for Hughes and Hendrick (pre Mel) but just a few hundred k for each of the others not already mentioned. 

We need to sharpen up our longer term planning imo as to what we want from the academy. 

I'll be surprised if a PL club don't go in for Bogle.
Whittaker was just under £1m, Delap and Thomas each £1.2m plus add-ons, Gordon was even more.

Certainly not anywhere near what we'd be hoping for, but better than the "few hundred k" you suggest.

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I'll be surprised if a PL club don't go in for Bogle.
Whittaker was just under £1m, Delap and Thomas each £1.2m plus add-ons, Gordon was even more.

Certainly not anywhere near what we'd be hoping for, but better than the "few hundred k" you suggest.

ok, my bad - i had in mind stuff was "up to" around the £1m so was mentally discounting probably half that.

But the big picture is that if its costing several £m per annum to run the academy then we need to be extracting maximum value either by

- selling a promising youngster (would need a reasonable volume each year to make a material contribution)

- establishing youngsters in the first xi and building around (I have tried to avoid the much derided "50% of the first team" metric)

- blooding youngsters in the first xi with a view to "selling high" (we arguably have bogle in this category).

I am still of the view at present that we aren't quite managing the interaction of these 3 alternatives optimally and thus not getting biggest bang for buck out of the academy investment. 

[Macintosh]

1 hour ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

I was mentally thinking of the sorts of fees Birmingham got for Bellingham, or even forest back in the day. 

Bogle and Lowe will be back in the championship next season so one assumes that will limit add ons, we had to let delap go for a bag of bullseyes. 

Got decent dosh for Hughes and Hendrick (pre Mel) but just a few hundred k for each of the others not already mentioned. 

We need to sharpen up our longer term planning imo as to what we want from the academy. 

It does show what a difference a year makes. Many here thought any bid below £15m for Bird from Chelsea should be turned down. They thought Leeds would have to pay £25m for Knight and £20m for Sibley in the August Window. If that had happened, £60m for those three that fans rated 12 months ago, then the academy would be the best in Europe. The only way to make this happen is to have a manager that can make them worth that amount, play them, play them where they are best and play them often if the academy plan is to succeed. And don't keep making them captain would help too. Ebosele looks the best of the bunch for me, I'd have had him in at full-back half a season ago and played Byrne as a winger, especially considering Rooney and his chums make five changes every game, win, lose or draw.

[Van der MoodHoover]

Just now, Macintosh said:

It does show what a difference a year makes. Many here thought any bid below £15m for Bird from Chelsea should be turned down. They thought Leeds would have to pay £25m for Knight and £20m for Sibley in the August Window. If that had happened, £60m for those three that fans rated 12 months ago, then the academy would be the best in Europe. The only way to make this happen is to have a manager that can make them worth that amount, play them, play them where they are best and play them often if the academy plan is to succeed. And don't keep making them captain would help too. Ebosele looks the best of the bunch for me, I'd have had him in at full-back half a season ago and played Byrne as a winger, especially considering Rooney and his chums make five changes every game, win, lose or draw.

Indeed so - timing can be very important in selling talent as others have shown. But its clearly as, if not more important, that the "pathway" into the first team doesn't just stop at being selected for the bench. It all needs to knit together in a way that it doesn't seem to at the moment.

[B4ev6is]

Well past couple of season not really had a pre season as we had managers come and go so really this summer broke first one in about 2 years were roony can have a look what we really got in young players.

[r_wilcockson]

On 12/05/2021 at 15:27, Macintosh said:

Delap, Thomas, Bogle, Whittaker and Gordon.

Would love Delap on loan next season, exactly what we're missing up front. 

[Rampage]

On 11/05/2021 at 16:41, Rambalin said:

He is 21 and never really pushed on to a first team start or regular bench appearance he only made it this season due to injuries. 

He is a decent finisher, gives his all and I can see him dropping into div2  and doing well but he could also go the way of Zanzala and probably JHI and disappear without trace. 

Zanzala is at Carlisle United

[Stuniverse]

On 14/05/2021 at 09:15, Rampage said:

Zanzala is at Carlisle United

Zanzala is carving out a nice lower league career for himself and is well thought of at that level.

[Stuniverse]

On 11/05/2021 at 16:35, Boycie said:

Is Stretton the better of the two?

Jack Stretton did very well at Stockport, scoring three goals in five appearances. He also hit the woodwork on his senior debut for Derby.

As far as I’m aware, Cresswell hasn’t been out on loan anywhere and, at two years older than Stretton, only came into the fringes of the first-team squad at the end of this season. Had Stretton been fit, I imagine it would’ve been Stretton, not Cresswell, on the bench as Stretton had returned from his loan by then.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Stuniverse

[AndyinLiverpool]

4 minutes ago, Stuniverse said:

Jack Stretton did very well at Stockport, scoring three goals in five appearances. He also hit the woodwork on his senior debut for Derby.

As far as I’m aware, Cresswell hasn’t been out on loan anywhere and, at two years older than Stretton, only came into the fringes of the first-team squad at the end of this season. Had Stretton been fit, I imagine it would’ve been Stretton, not Cresswell, on the bench as Stretton had returned from his loan by then.

He really shouldn't have hit the woodwork.

[Boycie]

1 hour ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

He really shouldn't have hit the woodwork.

Mate, when I watch Derby play, I want to hit the bar too.

[Wignall12]

On 19/05/2021 at 14:16, AndyinLiverpool said:

He really shouldn't have hit the woodwork.

Why ? ...what WAS he aiming for ?

[BrudeRAM]

On 12/05/2021 at 17:26, Macintosh said:

It does show what a difference a year makes. Many here thought any bid below £15m for Bird from Chelsea should be turned down. They thought Leeds would have to pay £25m for Knight and £20m for Sibley in the August Window. If that had happened, £60m for those three that fans rated 12 months ago, then the academy would be the best in Europe. The only way to make this happen is to have a manager that can make them worth that amount, play them, play them where they are best and play them often if the academy plan is to succeed. And don't keep making them captain would help too. Ebosele looks the best of the bunch for me, I'd have had him in at full-back half a season ago and played Byrne as a winger, especially considering Rooney and his chums make five changes every game, win, lose or draw.

Very true, I was guilty at scoffing at the ‘measly’ 5-10m rumoured fees for the likes of them and really didn’t see this turning on its head so quickly. Bird looked a different player towards the end completely bereft of confidence, Sibley was weirdly frozen out when we needed goals and Knight has been forced to transform from a promising box-to-box mid into an any-position-will-do utility player. Really disappointing but I hope they can get back to their best this year, key is playing them in their best positions and stopping all of the chopping and changing.

Edited May 20, 2021 by BrudeRAM

[RoyMac5]

Just now, BrudeRAM said:

Very true, I was guilty at scoffing at the ‘measly’ 5-10m rumoured fees for the likes of them and really didn’t see this turning on its head so quickly. Bird looked a different player completely bereft of confidence towards the end, Sibley was weirdly frozen out when we needed goals and Knight has been forced to transform from a promising box-to-box mid into a any-position-will-do utility player. Really disappointing and hope they can get back to their best this year, key is playing them in their best positions and stopping the chopping and changing.

Why doesn't one of the clubs interested in paying big money for our young talent act smart and put a low bid in, we need the money. If they're any good then they'll see that won't they? Any rumours?

[BrudeRAM]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Why doesn't one of the clubs interested in paying big money for our young talent act smart and put a low bid in, we need the money. If they're any good then they'll see that won't they? Any rumours?

Unfortunately I think it might only be a matter of time before they do start sniffing and when the window opens I expect we’ll get picked apart for pennies like Wigan was